Trench Warfare

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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby pmchugh on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:17 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Stephen Wayne wrote:I like it kinda. It looks fun but there is one HUGE problem -----This makes a good drop unbeatable. Drop a bonus or most of one and you have won the game outright.


On the contrary. You have plenty of time to prepare and develop a strategy to counter a bad drop.


I disagree, before you could surprise someone with a long range attack. If someone drops a bonus, your first chance to break it may not come for 3 rounds are so and by then he has had more dropped than normal. Its kinda fun, though infuriating.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:21 pm

pmchugh wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
Stephen Wayne wrote:I like it kinda. It looks fun but there is one HUGE problem -----This makes a good drop unbeatable. Drop a bonus or most of one and you have won the game outright.


On the contrary. You have plenty of time to prepare and develop a strategy to counter a bad drop.


I disagree, before you could surprise someone with a long range attack. If someone drops a bonus, your first chance to break it may not come for 3 rounds are so and by then he has had more dropped than normal. Its kinda fun, though infuriating.

An opponent may have an early troop advantage if something like this happens, but if he doesn't have much of a front outside of his narrow area, you might be better off in terms of expansion than he is.


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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby OliverFA on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:22 pm

Let's say that, as an example, red gets Australia in the Classic map. Green can still develop a plan to conquer another continent. Red still has an advantadge, but not a game won for sure.

Also remember that troops can't travel the full map in one turn. This is specially important if you use chained or adjacent reinforcements.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby Pirlo on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:08 pm

I believe this will be confusing as hell for newbies.. You better protect them from this feature.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby pmchugh on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:12 pm

I officially hate this setting... i'm 1-10 on it.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby danryan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:36 pm

pmchugh wrote:I officially hate this setting... i'm 1-10 on it.


Funny. I'm dominant so far, haven't lost a game on it.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby General Bax on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:15 pm

good change, but after playing a few dozens of trench games, ending the game is a bit frustrating for both sides.

how about adding a forfeit option for the losing player who wants to end his suffering sooner?
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby bragsie on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:28 pm

OliverFA wrote:
denominator wrote:YES! Thanks Lack - been hoping for this for 3 years!

This is huge for the tournaments and now we can play with fog on!

Beckytheblondie wrote:With this update, can we have a map selection setting that is called "Random minus Hive".


Hey, I've played HIVE like this before and think it actually plays well.


It does. In fact I think it's a great map for this setting.

Bu the way, do you fancy one Hive Trench game? ;)

I will take you up on it, just send me an invite just to see
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby OliverFA on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:45 pm

done ;)
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby SimplyObsessed on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:24 pm

This is going to add an additional challenge to large escalating games, no more board sweeping.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby Sniper08 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:37 pm

General Bax wrote:
how about adding a forfeit option for the losing player who wants to end his suffering sooner?


yes that would be helpful to speed you games that are already over but make it only available for trench and after a certain round has passed to avoid abuse
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby TheQuietOne on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:13 pm

Sniper08 wrote:
General Bax wrote:
how about adding a forfeit option for the losing player who wants to end his suffering sooner?


yes that would be helpful to speed you games that are already over but make it only available for trench and after a certain round has passed to avoid abuse


I would add my voice to an option for a "forfeit" button.

But, I would do it with the following caveats to prevent an accidental click or mistake: The button must be pressed on three consecutive rounds of the game in order to take effect. Once it's pressed on three consecutive turns, the player has conceded.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby DiM on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:23 pm

we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby SimplyObsessed on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:54 pm

DiM wrote:we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.

Completely disagree, it's hard to tell how many rounds you will need in any given game as its dependent on dice, drop and strategy. And what about random where maps vary from Doodle Earth to Hive.. how is anyone supposed to estimate that? A forfeit button could be installed for a losing player to forfeit at a time where it's clear who is the winner is. Requirements for the forfeit button's use could be introduced, for example only after one player has twice as many troops as the other. What I'm seeing at the moment is players who are losing a Trench 1v1 game deadbeating, which is a waste of my time quite frankly not sure if I can leave my computer or not in case they come back. Even those who do play the full game I'm sat playing the additional rounds, waiting on the other player to take his turns for a good five minutes (classic) longer than I do for standard games when it's clear I've won which for me is ruining what is a great addition to the site.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby Pirlo on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:32 pm

SimplyObsessed wrote:
DiM wrote:we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.

Completely disagree, it's hard to tell how many rounds you will need in any given game as its dependent on dice, drop and strategy. And what about random where maps vary from Doodle Earth to Hive.. how is anyone supposed to estimate that? A forfeit button could be installed for a losing player to forfeit at a time where it's clear who is the winner is. Requirements for the forfeit button's use could be introduced, for example only after one player has twice as many troops as the other. What I'm seeing at the moment is players who are losing a Trench 1v1 game deadbeating, which is a waste of my time quite frankly not sure if I can leave my computer or not in case they come back. Even those who do play the full game I'm sat playing the additional rounds, waiting on the other player to take his turns for a good five minutes (classic) longer than I do for standard games when it's clear I've won which for me is ruining what is a great addition to the site.


you might have missed the fact that the Trench thing is not obligatory and in no way imposed on you. Why do you have to start a game on random map with Trench on? Trench might not be the best idea, but it's awesome on certain maps. Just stick to those maps when you wanna play Trench and you should be fine. When you want to play any particular map in which Trench doesn't fit, just keep it off. End of story!

As for the forfeit option, I'm pretty sure the hopeless players, who happen to be the majority on this site, would just abuse it to end a game as soon as possible, especially the freemium players who would like to finish their games earlier.

Just think how a forfeit can negatively affect a multi-players game when a strategy of a player can be ruined when one of the noobs, whose existence in the game is necessary for other players due to diplomacy or alliance, just decides to choose the easiest way to get rid of the game and quit it like suddenly.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby SimplyObsessed on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:49 pm

Pirlo wrote:
SimplyObsessed wrote:
DiM wrote:we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.

Completely disagree, it's hard to tell how many rounds you will need in any given game as its dependent on dice, drop and strategy. And what about random where maps vary from Doodle Earth to Hive.. how is anyone supposed to estimate that? A forfeit button could be installed for a losing player to forfeit at a time where it's clear who is the winner is. Requirements for the forfeit button's use could be introduced, for example only after one player has twice as many troops as the other. What I'm seeing at the moment is players who are losing a Trench 1v1 game deadbeating, which is a waste of my time quite frankly not sure if I can leave my computer or not in case they come back. Even those who do play the full game I'm sat playing the additional rounds, waiting on the other player to take his turns for a good five minutes (classic) longer than I do for standard games when it's clear I've won which for me is ruining what is a great addition to the site.


you might have missed the fact that the Trench thing is not obligatory and in no way imposed on you. Why do you have to start a game on random map with Trench on? Trench might not be the best idea, but it's awesome on certain maps. Just stick to those maps when you wanna play Trench and you should be fine. When you want to play any particular map in which Trench doesn't fit, just keep it off. End of story!

As for the forfeit option, I'm pretty sure the hopeless players, who happen to be the majority on this site, would just abuse it to end a game as soon as possible, especially the freemium players who would like to finish their games earlier.

Just think how a forfeit can negatively affect a multi-players game when a strategy of a player can be ruined when one of the noobs, whose existence in the game is necessary for other players due to diplomacy or alliance, just decides to choose the easiest way to get rid of the game and quit it like suddenly.

I haven't missed the fact that Trench isn't obligatory, but I find it a fun way to play the game and think a forfeit offer to players that have no chance of winning could be a good addition to the site and be more enjoyable for the majority who don't wish to sit needlessly waiting for a game to end.

The 'hopeless players' you refer to wouldn't be able to abuse it if restrictions were put in place.
If it were up to me, I'd have these restrictions on a forfeit button
- Trench games only
- Speed games only
- All players must agree
- Only after 10 rounds
- Only if one player has twice the number of troops as any other.
- Person making the game must indicate 'Yes' or 'No' during creation whether to include a forfeit button.

What I have described above isn't open to abuse, and keeps everyone happy as the forfeit button isn't obligatory.. would stop the high number of deadbeaters I've observed in 1v1 Trench.
Last edited by SimplyObsessed on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby pearljamrox2 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:03 am

DAY 3 OF MY SNAPSHOTS NOT WORKING. IRRITATING!
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby denominator on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:31 am

SimplyObsessed wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
SimplyObsessed wrote:
DiM wrote:we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.

Completely disagree, it's hard to tell how many rounds you will need in any given game as its dependent on dice, drop and strategy. And what about random where maps vary from Doodle Earth to Hive.. how is anyone supposed to estimate that? A forfeit button could be installed for a losing player to forfeit at a time where it's clear who is the winner is. Requirements for the forfeit button's use could be introduced, for example only after one player has twice as many troops as the other. What I'm seeing at the moment is players who are losing a Trench 1v1 game deadbeating, which is a waste of my time quite frankly not sure if I can leave my computer or not in case they come back. Even those who do play the full game I'm sat playing the additional rounds, waiting on the other player to take his turns for a good five minutes (classic) longer than I do for standard games when it's clear I've won which for me is ruining what is a great addition to the site.


you might have missed the fact that the Trench thing is not obligatory and in no way imposed on you. Why do you have to start a game on random map with Trench on? Trench might not be the best idea, but it's awesome on certain maps. Just stick to those maps when you wanna play Trench and you should be fine. When you want to play any particular map in which Trench doesn't fit, just keep it off. End of story!

As for the forfeit option, I'm pretty sure the hopeless players, who happen to be the majority on this site, would just abuse it to end a game as soon as possible, especially the freemium players who would like to finish their games earlier.

Just think how a forfeit can negatively affect a multi-players game when a strategy of a player can be ruined when one of the noobs, whose existence in the game is necessary for other players due to diplomacy or alliance, just decides to choose the easiest way to get rid of the game and quit it like suddenly.

I haven't missed the fact that Trench isn't obligatory, but I find it a fun way to play the game and think a forfeit offer to players that have no chance of winning could be a good addition to the site and be more enjoyable for the majority who don't wish to sit needlessly waiting for a game to end.

The 'hopeless players' you refer to wouldn't be able to abuse it if restrictions were put in place.
If it were up to me, I'd have these restrictions on a forfeit button
- Trench games only
- Speed games only
- All players must agree
- Only after 10 rounds
- Only if one player has twice the number of troops as any other.
- Person making the game must indicate 'Yes' or 'No' during creation whether to include a forfeit button.

What I have described above isn't open to abuse, and keeps everyone happy as the forfeit button isn't obligatory.. would stop the high number of deadbeaters I've observed in 1v1 Trench.


The trench gameplay option has been active for slightly over 24 hours now. I'm not sure where you're getting your observations from on deadbeaters, I can only assume speed games as it's literally impossible for anyone to have deadbeated a standard game already. Provide some game links if you're going to make allegations for that.

I've never been a fan of the forfeit button and I still don't think it's necessary even with the new game option. I assume that for a player to forfeit, the game must be sufficiently lopsided, in which case the winning player should be able to mop up within 3 rounds anyways.

The only place that I can understand the forfeit argument is with regards to freemium players and holding a spot - but in that case there are two issues: 1) the person has the option to pay for more spots and 2) if it goes for more than 3 rounds, it becomes a hostage situation that is already against the rules.

With regards to speed games, we are talking an extra ~15 minutes to mop up the end of the game. With proper, well thought out troop placement it should not take you more than 3 rounds to win the game once the balance has been tilted. Furthermore, if you are not willing to put in the time required to play a complete speed game, you shouldn't have joined that game in the first place. This applies to forfeits and deadbeats.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby TheQuietOne on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:37 am

denominator wrote:With regards to speed games, we are talking an extra ~15 minutes to mop up the end of the game. With proper, well thought out troop placement it should not take you more than 3 rounds to win the game once the balance has been tilted. Furthermore, if you are not willing to put in the time required to play a complete speed game, you shouldn't have joined that game in the first place. This applies to forfeits and deadbeats.


My first Trench win was on Feudal - the balance was tilted as soon as I had 4 kingdoms and 2 villages vs 2 kingdoms and 1 village. However, due to the layout of the board, it still took 10+ turns to "mop up". Some boards are great to play, but hard to bear once the result isn't in doubt anymore.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby flexmaster33 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:41 am

fantastic update...a new style of play that brings a whole new experience to CC. Well done.
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:57 am

Wow, never thought I'd see this update actually make it in. I have to say Lack that you officially rock :) I look forward to playing foggy trench games when I get back to the site.

Thanks for an awesome update lack :)
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby DiM on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:37 am

SimplyObsessed wrote:
DiM wrote:we have round limits. so what's the point of a concede/forfeit button?

just start the game with whatever round limit you feel like and that's it.

Completely disagree, it's hard to tell how many rounds you will need in any given game as its dependent on dice, drop and strategy. And what about random where maps vary from Doodle Earth to Hive.. how is anyone supposed to estimate that? A forfeit button could be installed for a losing player to forfeit at a time where it's clear who is the winner is. Requirements for the forfeit button's use could be introduced, for example only after one player has twice as many troops as the other. What I'm seeing at the moment is players who are losing a Trench 1v1 game deadbeating, which is a waste of my time quite frankly not sure if I can leave my computer or not in case they come back. Even those who do play the full game I'm sat playing the additional rounds, waiting on the other player to take his turns for a good five minutes (classic) longer than I do for standard games when it's clear I've won which for me is ruining what is a great addition to the site.


nobody is forcing you to play a game with this setting. if you want to do it, then you should be prepared for a long game.

also who decides when somebody is a clear winner? twice as much troops? that's bull. i've come back and won games where i had far less troops than that. forfeit should never be introduced.
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Re: Trench Warfare - Forfeit Button

Postby General Bax on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:00 am

guys, i humbly remind you that a forfeit option already exists, its just means more waiting: three rounds of doing nothing and your opponents wins the game.

my point regarding the forfeit option issue was trench warfare games tend to prolong and last 5, 6, and even 10 round after both players have no interest in them any more because the inevitable winner is known. in many quick and small maps waiting for the first out station of the round limit option (20 rounds) is not an attractive option in such situation.

there pros and cons to the issue, and i wouldn't suggest it as a CC -ll-game-variety-wide option before it's tested a avoid abuse (for instance - it's definately abusable in a multi player assassin game, by any to coordinated rouge players), but trench warfare just calls for it.

how about it's intorduced just in trench games for testing?
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Re: Trench Warfare

Postby Leehar on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:00 am

I think the easiest solution they'd make is to give a 10 round limits option, but implementing a whole new surrender functions seems excessive, because as Andy said, it's at least better round limits came out before this update
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Re: Trench Warfare - Forfeit Button

Postby SimplyObsessed on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:46 am

General Bax wrote:guys, i humbly remind you that a forfeit option already exists, its just means more waiting: three rounds of doing nothing and your opponents wins the game.

my point regarding the forfeit option issue was trench warfare games tend to prolong and last 5, 6, and even 10 round after both players have no interest in them any more because the inevitable winner is known. in many quick and small maps waiting for the first out station of the round limit option (20 rounds) is not an attractive option in such situation.

there pros and cons to the issue, and i wouldn't suggest it as a CC -ll-game-variety-wide option before it's tested a avoid abuse (for instance - it's definately abusable in a multi player assassin game, by any to coordinated rouge players), but trench warfare just calls for it.

how about it's intorduced just in trench games for testing?

That can be up to 15 minutes of waiting, where your opponent is tied to the computer in case you come back.
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