Update 9/5/13

Archival storage for Announcements. Peruse old Announcements here!

Moderators: Community Team, Global Moderators, Media Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:02 am

greenoaks wrote:because my score represents ALL games i have played and won, played and lost, played while drunk, played and missed turns, played with others missing turns, etc. that score is me.

once you have no point games my score no longer represents me. it only represents a cordened off portion of me. my rank is a charade.

it is like life. our personalities and points of view are formed from ALL the experiences we have had up to that point in time. we don't get to pick and choose what days or activities will mean something and which won't.


Wow! That makes a lot of sense.
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

My Maps:
Research and Conquer - Civilization meets Conquer Club

Best score: 2,346 - Best position: #618 - Best percentile: 4.87%
User avatar
Lieutenant OliverFA
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Somewhere in Spain
Medals: 32
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (3) Training Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (5)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby betiko on Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:18 am

greenoaks wrote:
betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:Your assessment of me betiko is fairly accurate. My ideal rank is the sword & baton but i enjoy playing too wide a variety of maps & settings to maintain it. However, when i see it appear i feel joyous. I do have what it takes to be Conquerer but what it takes for me is to play Realms 2 & 3 exclusively. Boring.


so i don't get this greenoaks. If there are some game modes you just like to play for fun, why would you see it as a problem to play them points free?
I am shit at realm of might maps, but I'm sure that anyone playing realm of might for points would be very good, therefore you wouldn't get the win rates you're expecting. Competitive games would be more "competititve". You would most likely meet guys that are really good at a given map/setting.

(also don't forget that if you go up in the ranking, the points earned would dramatically fall and the points loss would increase the same way, you have earned lots of points on these maps indeed, but because you get the points at a sargent/low major level)

because my score represents ALL games i have played and won, played and lost, played while drunk, played and missed turns, played with others missing turns, etc. that score is me.

once you have no point games my score no longer represents me. it only represents a cordened off portion of me. my rank is a charade.

it is like life. our personalities and points of view are formed from ALL the experiences we have had up to that point in time. we don't get to pick and choose what days or activities will mean something and which won't.


it does make some sense, but it doesn't apply here. In any competitive sport or activity, you do train, play friendly games, teach students playing the game ect ect. No points games can be reflected on your wall page separately. So you know that this guy played 500 competitive games and 1500 points free games for example. It would still reflect all his experiences and you'd make your own idea of what kind of player he is.
Image
User avatar
Brigadier betiko
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 4576
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:05 pm
Location: Paris
Medals: 149
Conquer Cup Gold Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (14) General Achievement (30) Clan Achievement (7) Training Achievement (2)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby ender516 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:12 pm

betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:Your assessment of me betiko is fairly accurate. My ideal rank is the sword & baton but i enjoy playing too wide a variety of maps & settings to maintain it. However, when i see it appear i feel joyous. I do have what it takes to be Conquerer but what it takes for me is to play Realms 2 & 3 exclusively. Boring.


so i don't get this greenoaks. If there are some game modes you just like to play for fun, why would you see it as a problem to play them points free?
I am shit at realm of might maps, but I'm sure that anyone playing realm of might for points would be very good, therefore you wouldn't get the win rates you're expecting. Competitive games would be more "competititve". You would most likely meet guys that are really good at a given map/setting.

(also don't forget that if you go up in the ranking, the points earned would dramatically fall and the points loss would increase the same way, you have earned lots of points on these maps indeed, but because you get the points at a sargent/low major level)

because my score represents ALL games i have played and won, played and lost, played while drunk, played and missed turns, played with others missing turns, etc. that score is me.

once you have no point games my score no longer represents me. it only represents a cordened off portion of me. my rank is a charade.

it is like life. our personalities and points of view are formed from ALL the experiences we have had up to that point in time. we don't get to pick and choose what days or activities will mean something and which won't.


it does make some sense, but it doesn't apply here. In any competitive sport or activity, you do train, play friendly games, teach students playing the game ect ect. No points games can be reflected on your wall page separately. So you know that this guy played 500 competitive games and 1500 points free games for example. It would still reflect all his experiences and you'd make your own idea of what kind of player he is.

Absolutely. Chess masters are rated on games that are designated as important in some way. They don't include games played for fun, or exhibitions where a master plays thirty games at once.
The easy solution is to have the system keep two scores: one for all games, just like now, and another for rated games only.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class ender516
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (9)
Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (11)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:22 am

A double scoring system could be interesting, because it would be like the Schrodinger game, a game that is rated and unrated at the same time :D
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

My Maps:
Research and Conquer - Civilization meets Conquer Club

Best score: 2,346 - Best position: #618 - Best percentile: 4.87%
User avatar
Lieutenant OliverFA
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Somewhere in Spain
Medals: 32
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (3) Training Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (5)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Leehar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:19 am

ender516 wrote:
betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:Your assessment of me betiko is fairly accurate. My ideal rank is the sword & baton but i enjoy playing too wide a variety of maps & settings to maintain it. However, when i see it appear i feel joyous. I do have what it takes to be Conquerer but what it takes for me is to play Realms 2 & 3 exclusively. Boring.


so i don't get this greenoaks. If there are some game modes you just like to play for fun, why would you see it as a problem to play them points free?
I am shit at realm of might maps, but I'm sure that anyone playing realm of might for points would be very good, therefore you wouldn't get the win rates you're expecting. Competitive games would be more "competititve". You would most likely meet guys that are really good at a given map/setting.

(also don't forget that if you go up in the ranking, the points earned would dramatically fall and the points loss would increase the same way, you have earned lots of points on these maps indeed, but because you get the points at a sargent/low major level)

because my score represents ALL games i have played and won, played and lost, played while drunk, played and missed turns, played with others missing turns, etc. that score is me.

once you have no point games my score no longer represents me. it only represents a cordened off portion of me. my rank is a charade.

it is like life. our personalities and points of view are formed from ALL the experiences we have had up to that point in time. we don't get to pick and choose what days or activities will mean something and which won't.


it does make some sense, but it doesn't apply here. In any competitive sport or activity, you do train, play friendly games, teach students playing the game ect ect. No points games can be reflected on your wall page separately. So you know that this guy played 500 competitive games and 1500 points free games for example. It would still reflect all his experiences and you'd make your own idea of what kind of player he is.

Absolutely. Chess masters are rated on games that are designated as important in some way. They don't include games played for fun, or exhibitions where a master plays thirty games at once.
The easy solution is to have the system keep two scores: one for all games, just like now, and another for rated games only.


Wouldn't it be easier to have unrated games with no score, but still affecting your win percentage?
Image
show
User avatar
Brigadier Leehar
Head Clan Director
Head Clan Director
 
Posts: 5963
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:12 pm
Location: Graduation Ceremony
Medals: 125
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (21) Clan Achievement (13) Training Achievement (7) Challenge Achievement (1) General Contribution (8)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Swifte on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:21 am

Leehar wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to have unrated games with no score, but still affecting your win percentage?


Win % is a silly statistic on here anyway, unless you know the distribution of the number of team and standard games the person is playing. 30% is great if you play 8p standard games, crap if you only play team games.
User avatar
Major Swifte
Chatter
Chatter
 
Posts: 2065
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:05 pm
Location: usually Mahgreb
Medals: 127
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (31) Clan Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (4) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (8)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:14 pm

betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:Your assessment of me betiko is fairly accurate. My ideal rank is the sword & baton but i enjoy playing too wide a variety of maps & settings to maintain it. However, when i see it appear i feel joyous. I do have what it takes to be Conquerer but what it takes for me is to play Realms 2 & 3 exclusively. Boring.


so i don't get this greenoaks. If there are some game modes you just like to play for fun, why would you see it as a problem to play them points free?
I am shit at realm of might maps, but I'm sure that anyone playing realm of might for points would be very good, therefore you wouldn't get the win rates you're expecting. Competitive games would be more "competititve". You would most likely meet guys that are really good at a given map/setting.

(also don't forget that if you go up in the ranking, the points earned would dramatically fall and the points loss would increase the same way, you have earned lots of points on these maps indeed, but because you get the points at a sargent/low major level)

because my score represents ALL games i have played and won, played and lost, played while drunk, played and missed turns, played with others missing turns, etc. that score is me.

once you have no point games my score no longer represents me. it only represents a cordened off portion of me. my rank is a charade.

it is like life. our personalities and points of view are formed from ALL the experiences we have had up to that point in time. we don't get to pick and choose what days or activities will mean something and which won't.


it does make some sense, but it doesn't apply here. In any competitive sport or activity, you do train, play friendly games, teach students playing the game ect ect. No points games can be reflected on your wall page separately. So you know that this guy played 500 competitive games and 1500 points free games for example. It would still reflect all his experiences and you'd make your own idea of what kind of player he is.


This isn't some competitive sport. This is the sum total of my life.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:53 pm

If I was sparring with Mike Tyson, I wouldn't want to be judged on the result.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Dukasaur
Head Socialite
Head Socialite
 
Posts: 9536
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
Medals: 126
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (18)
General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:01 pm

The chess analogy isn't exactly fitting. Chess is one game with one setting on one "map." Same with most other games where the scoring system that allows for practice games is allowed. Other games that put you in a variety of situations often don't have quite the same system and often have some form of "lifetime" scoring involved. Thing of multi-player shooters or even old SNES games where you had a limited number of lives to accomplish an objective or a big OMRPG. Granted there are still exceptions or inadequate analogies even within those games.

But the key point for our purposes, is that it's at least theoretically possible to design a scoring system that allows points to be distributed fairly even when players of disparate levels are playing against each other. This possibility is a direct result of the simplicity of the situation that players can find themselves in. Players of the game will only find themselves faced with one situation and it is reasonable to assume that one can predict the amount of games a skilled player will win against a player of lesser skill.

With CC and it's variations, not so much. As GLG proved, there are some games that a skilled player can win 95%+ of the time. As joining any 1v1 Classic or Doodle game with standard settings proves, there are some games where even the best players can't hope for more than maybe a 60% win percentage against an unskilled opponent.

Instead of tryingto work that out (etc., etc.), CC has decided to do its form of lifetime scoring, which assesses all games equally.

The consequence of this system is that there are not practice games. As one poster here said, each game you play is part of who you are on this site. Anybody looking at your score alone can figure out something about you. If they look at your game selection, they get context to that.

Taking away a piece of that information has a counterpart, which may be a negative from many peoples' standpoint: A player will get to choose which games he is rated on and will likely choose only games that he thinks the net outcome will be positive. Think of who will benefit from that system. It will be the players with the most experience. Many will be outraged by the "new farming" that occurs as experienced players "shop" for net positive games. I can GUARANTEE that there will be C&A cases about inappropriate "shopping" for rated games. Will these games be evaluated under the current C&A guidelines or will we say caveat emptor to those noobs that get "shopped"? This will require a rethinking of how we evaluate farming on this site. And if we do come down on this side of free-for-all, this will inevitably add to the complexity of future C&A cases. (I sincerely hope that if these problems do come to pass, and if this activity is outlawed, that this form of abuse will be called "shopping" :) ).

A further point that I'd like to note is that not all "practice" games are beneficial. If any of you has ever been on a poker site where they allow freeroll tourneys or other types of free play, you will know that the difference between poker for money and how people play with free chips is night and day.

For more on this topic, see here.

Please note that I am not saying that no points games would be a "bad" thing. I am simply pointing out what a monumental shift in the mentality of this site that they would represent. Personally, I am undecided whether I am for or against the idea. However, I think a change of this magnitude requires clear and convincing evidence that it is preferable to the users, and I do not see that.
Image
User avatar
Major agentcom
 
Posts: 3716
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 pm
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (13) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (8)
General Contribution (2)

Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:39 pm

agentcom wrote:A further point that I'd like to note is that not all "practice" games are beneficial. If any of you has ever been on a poker site where they allow freeroll tourneys or other types of free play, you will know that the difference between poker for money and how people play with free chips is night and day.


This argument seems like an epic win.

I think that double score could be interesting, that would enable some people to ignore the "lifetime" score and pretend the only score that matters is the "official" score. But other than that, free games are like playing poker with chips.
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

My Maps:
Research and Conquer - Civilization meets Conquer Club

Best score: 2,346 - Best position: #618 - Best percentile: 4.87%
User avatar
Lieutenant OliverFA
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Somewhere in Spain
Medals: 32
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1)
Clan Achievement (3) Training Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (5)

Previous

Return to Announcement Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login