[Vacation - valid until August 2014] Homeworlds

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:37 pm

OK here is the current gameplay with a small map (760/600)

Homeworlds - Are adjacent to the system sector they are in as well as their Hypergate, Starbase, and Research.

Hypergate - This device allows faster than light travel from one system sector to another up to 2 light years away.

Starbase - The last line of defense the starbase can bombard and be bombarded by the system sector it is in.

Wormholes - Can assault any other wormhole. Start with 7 neutral and are Killer 7. Hypergates do not work through a wormhole.

Nebula - Nebula sectors are impassible withought access to Long Range Sensors. Killer 5.

Nebulon - The 27th system lies at the heart of the nebula. Its system sector decays 2 per turn. Its hypergate is an alien artifact, if you conquer it , its system sector may assault any wormhole. Homeworld autodeploys 5.

Research Facility - You gain access to all of the following advancements.
* Terra-forming - All homeworlds you control grant a +1 deployable bonus. This increases by 1 at at 2, 4, 8, and 16 researches.
* Hyper Navigation - Systems where you have a hypergate can assault other system sectors up to 2 light years away. This increases by 2 at 7 and 12 researches. At 9 researches hypergates may be used to travel through wormholes.
* Clone Facility - Starbases grant a +1 deployable bonus. This increases by 1 at 5 and 10 researches.
* Long Range Sensors - You may assault nebula spaces at 3 researches and Starbases can bombard adjacent sectors at 7 researches.

Current Levels/Advancements
May want to spread this out a little better...
2 - Terra-forming
3
4 - Terra-forming
5 - Long Range Sensors
6- Clone Facility
7 - Hyper Navigation
8 - Terra-forming
9 - Hyper Navigation
10 - Long Range Sensors
11
12 - Clone Facility
13
14 - Hyper Navigation
15
16 - Terra-forming

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:42 am

A few thoughts for the current revisions:

* I like the new layout. If I'm not mistaken you moved the map up slightly to allow for more room for Research, which I think was a good change. I also like where Nebulon is positioned.

* Hyper Navigation's text could use some tweaking. At the moment it's a bit redundant with the Hypergate text, since Hypergates can already move two sectors away. Maybe something like "Increases Hypergate range by 2 at 7 and 14 researches" would work better? That should clean up at least a line's worth of text and be just as clear. Also, it should probably read something like "At 9 researches system sectors with hypergates may assault wormholes within range", since the current description implies the hypergate territory connects to wormholes directly.

* In the post above, it doesn't mention what neutral values you're planning on having for research facilities, starbases, and hypergates. Presuming there's going to be 3 minimum deployable for regions, then I'd suggest something like 3-5 for Starbase, 5-7 for Hypergates, and 8-10 for Research. With the current research setup I think you'd want to keep it somewhat moderate (8-10 range) to encourage people to consider taking it for the initial bonus but not have it too cheap for the incremental homeworld bonuses at 2 and 4.

* The text above and the text on the map doesn't match for the various research levels. The breakdown/spread you have listed matches the map, but the breakdown/spread for the text above is as follows:

2 - Terra-forming
3 - Long Range Sensors
4 - Terra-forming
5 - Clone Facility
6 -
7 - Long Range Sensors
8 - Terra-forming
9 - Hyper Navigation
10 - Clone Facility
11
12 - Hyper Navigation
13
14 -
15
16 - Terra-forming

* Personally I think the breakdown on the map works out much better.

* The text for terraforming on the map and in the post above do not match. The post above indicates you get a +1 bonus per homeworld at 1 research, whereas the text on the map indicates the first bonus you receive from research is at level 2. I think there should be a +1 bonus for level 1, to encourage everyone to take the research facility while they're still building for the extra bonus. I'm not sure how many people would even take advantage of it, given the high rate of return, but I think the option would be nice. It also provides a small bonus for someone who loses previously gained homeworlds and only has one homeworld w/research remaining. I think the easiest way to modify the text would be to just change it to include "1" in the list of research levels, so: deployable bonus at 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16.

* I'm wondering if it'd be a good idea to include a losing condition for holding at least one homeworld. This would add additional strategic options and also prevent someone from getting stuck owning just a starbase. It might be a bit tight at this point to find space to fit the text for this in though.

* Long Range Sensors 10/Starbase adjacent sector bombardment won't work with the current XML code. If they add the code, then I think it should be increased to 2 sectors away to allow for system sector to neighbouring system sector bombardment, since unless it's a trench game, very few people will leave their stacks on an adjacent sector.

I think that covers all my thoughts for now. Great work as always :)
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:24 am

Thanx Tanarri I will look at that this evening.

I was actually thinking this map might be a good candidate for a "Map Pack"

* Homeworld: Battle Royale - 26 player, each starts with a homeworld and system sector. Eliminated if they have no homeworld.
* Homeworlds: Prime - similar to the battle royale version but scaled back a bit for 12 players.
* Homeworlds: Scramble - No player starts with a homeworld but instead all non system sectors are random player drops and there is a mad scramble for the systems.

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:58 pm

dolomite13 wrote:Thanx Tanarri I will look at that this evening.

I was actually thinking this map might be a good candidate for a "Map Pack"

* Homeworld: Battle Royale - 26 player, each starts with a homeworld and system sector. Eliminated if they have no homeworld.
* Homeworlds: Prime - similar to the battle royale version but scaled back a bit for 12 players.
* Homeworlds: Scramble - No player starts with a homeworld but instead all non system sectors are random player drops and there is a mad scramble for the systems.

=D13=


I was also thinking this would make a nice 12 player map if it got scaled back a bit.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:49 pm

Just as a quick aside I wanted to drop in and post my design philosophy for the map.

In the early game we have 26 players. I wanted the map to start off with players immediately competing with 4 other players for the sectors nearest to your homeworld system sector. As players begin to be eliminated from the game the remaining players will begin to see benefits from research. Increasing their ability to wage war at greater distances with a slight increase in power (bonus troops). As the game winds down with only a few players the benefits of research should help to greatly reduce the size of the map and increase the amount of force each player can bring to bear on their enemies each turn.

Trench Games: As a fan of faster games I hope that the increased distances from hypergates will minimize the slow expansion inherent in trench games and keep the game going at a decent pace.

Slow Expansion: A slight worry is how slow a 26 player game is. 26 players with 24 hours each to play their turn could take up to 26 days for everyone to take a turn. More likely each player will log in every day as I do but you never know. So in the beginning of the game players need to feel like they are making progress and immediately in the thick of it.

Wormholes: I am still up in the air about wormholes and how best to utilize them. Right now you need to conquer both sides to travel through them. However I was thinking about making them work a little differently. If you conquer a wormhole you would then be able to assault any space that borders that wormhole and any space that borders any other wormhole, but possibly not the other actual wormhole space as the entrance and exit to wormholes would not necessarily need to be in the same space. And wormholes would no longer be killer spaces. This way all system sectors are within 2 of 4 other system sectors, helping to balance the map.

Anyway that's all my ramblings for now...

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:22 am

dolomite, the homeworld A,B,Cs. Can you name them on the map going down, left to right. So L would be A, H would be B and P would be C. D stays the same. ;) This would follow on the same logic we have with bonuses.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 am

dolomite13 wrote:Trench Games: As a fan of faster games I hope that the increased distances from hypergates will minimize the slow expansion inherent in trench games and keep the game going at a decent pace.


Now I understand why you made Hypergates so that they give 2 sector travel at just 1 gate. However, I think it would work much better in trench (and non-trench) if you needed 2 or 3 hypergates instead of 1. The very very early game would be you against your 4 local neighbours, but you would have to reach them across normal space. Then, as soon as you have mastered your local space, the scope increases to distance 2.

Otherwise, non-system sectors will rarely be used, as everybody will go directly attacking the "important" sectors.

My "ideal" setting would be.

3 gates --> 2 sectors
6 gates --> 3 sectors
9 gates --> 4 sectors
12 gates --> 5 sectors
15 gates --> 6 sectors

With this setting the map gets smaller and faster as the game progresses, but not too soon. It makes for a nice mess at the beginning when everybody will be caring just about their local neighbours, but as they become bigger powers they will be able to reach higher distances.

That's my biggest... no... my only issue with this map, that it is still too open. With so many territories being adjacent at once, strategy suffers.

The rest of the map is awesome :)
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:37 am

A few more arguments to support my suggestion:

In this map, players are supposed to transition from underdogs to allmighty superpowers. At the begining one can barely deploy a few armies, and travel even to the nearest system takes time. At the end the surviving players are deploying huge armies and travelling almost anywhere in the blink of an eye.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:41 am

dolomite13 wrote:Trench Games: As a fan of faster games I hope that the increased distances from hypergates will minimize the slow expansion inherent in trench games and keep the game going at a decent pace.

BR games will not be played in trench so you have no need to worry about this.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:58 am

koontz1973 wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:Trench Games: As a fan of faster games I hope that the increased distances from hypergates will minimize the slow expansion inherent in trench games and keep the game going at a decent pace.

BR games will not be played in trench so you have no need to worry about this.


Really? I am right now in a trench BR game Game 13124106
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:23 am

OliverFA wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:Trench Games: As a fan of faster games I hope that the increased distances from hypergates will minimize the slow expansion inherent in trench games and keep the game going at a decent pace.

BR games will not be played in trench so you have no need to worry about this.


Really? I am right now in a trench BR game Game 13124106

News to me as I always believed it was one of the no go BR settings. Even so, it will only rarely be used so do not worry about it.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby ashleyco on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:22 pm

Seems like it could work as a regular map.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:26 pm

Should have an update soon. Sorry for the delay.

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:40 pm

Players start with a system sector, its homeworld and starbase which should give them a good start. The hypergate and research are now one way assaults which simulates building or researching and an investment in resources that cannot be recovered and converted into a war effort The bonuses possible have been enhanced and I think this will make the game start out at a good pace but encourage the players to conquer the hypergate and research in each system they conquer.By the time it is down to 2 players it is my hope that the amount of bonus is sort of insane to simulate massive space battles with hundreds of space craft. Sort of Macross style.

Let me know how all this sounds

=D13=

=========================================================================================

Homeworlds - Are adjacent to the system sector they are in as well as their Starbase, and Research. They can one way assault their Hypergate and Research. Start with 3 troops. You must hold at least one Homeworld or you are eliminated from the game.

Starbase - The last line of defense the starbase can bombard and be bombarded by the system sector it is in and are adjacent to their Homeworld. Start with 1 troop.

Hypergate - Are required to use Hyper Jump from a given system sector. Start with 7 neutral and autodeploy 1 when you control them to simulate hardening of defenses.

Wormholes - Can assault any other wormhole. Start with 7 neutral and are Killer 7.

Nebula - Nebula sectors are impassible without access to Improved Sensors. Killer 3.

Nebulon - The 27th system lies at the heart of the nebula. Its system sector decays 2 per turn. Its research is a wormhole device, if you conquer it , its system sector is adjacent to all wormholes. Homeworld autodeploys 5.

Research Facility - You gain access to all of the following advancements as you develop research stations. Start with 13 neutral and autodeploy 1 when you control them to simulate hardening of defenses.

* Terra-forming - All homeworlds you control grant a +1 deployable bonus. This increases by 1 at at 2, 4, 8, and 16 researches.

* Hyper Jump - System sectors with Hyper gates can assault other system sectors up to 2 light years away when you have 3 researches into Hyper Jump. The distance increases by 2 at 9 and 15 researches.
3 = system to system 2 away
9 = system to system 4 away
15 = system to system 6 away

* Clone Facility - Starbases grant a +1 deployable bonus. This increases by 1 at 5 and 3 at 10 researches.

* Improved Sensors - Starbases can bombard adjacent sectors at 3 researches. You may assault nebula spaces at 7 researches. At 11 researches Hyper Jump may be used to travel to and from wormhole sectors.
3 = starbase bombard adjacent sector
7 = assault nebula
11 = hyperjump to and from wormholes

* Alien Artifact You discover how to activate a newly discovered alien artifact at 6, 12 and 18 researches that grants a deployable bonus equal to their level.

Current Levels/Advancements
2 - Terra-forming
3 - Hyper Jump -Improved Sensors
4 - Terra-forming
5 - Clone Facility
6 - +6 bonus
7 - Improved Sensors
8 - Terra-forming
9 - Hyper Jump
10 - Clone Facility
11 - Improved Sensors
12 - +12 bonus
13 -
14 -
15 - Hyper Jump
16 - Terra-forming
17 -
18 - +18 bonus
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:50 pm

OK here is an image update reflecting the above post.

The large map is pretty readable although I need to go over all of the graphics and clean them up quite a bit. I managed to cram all this into 840x800.

Of course I keep forgetting to add the losing condition to the map every time I create it "Must hold at least one sector, homeworld, or starbase or you are eliminated from the game" but will get that on there next update.

So what do we think about the gameplay for this one? are we on track for an interesting battle royale map?

=D13=

http://imageshack.com/a/img163/8091/6ucx.png
Image

The small map however is not good at all. I believe the small is just too hard to read and may need to be over-sized. When I clean up the large it may solve these issues.

http://imageshack.com/a/img594/1420/vgb0.png
Image
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:51 pm

koontz1973 wrote:dolomite, the homeworld A,B,Cs. Can you name them on the map going down, left to right. So L would be A, H would be B and P would be C. D stays the same. ;) This would follow on the same logic we have with bonuses.

Above may of got missed but this is something that I feel needs to be sorted. People naturally read left to right, it is how we deal with bonuses so getting the lettering done the same is going to be my bug bear for you. :P
dolomite13 wrote:So what do we think about the gameplay for this one?

It looks like you have tried to cram a lot in there and all of it is getting lost on the small map. Lets go over it this weekend sometime as this is going to be a doozie to do. :evil:
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (9/8)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:39 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:dolomite, the homeworld A,B,Cs. Can you name them on the map going down, left to right. So L would be A, H would be B and P would be C. D stays the same. ;) This would follow on the same logic we have with bonuses.

Above may of got missed but this is something that I feel needs to be sorted. People naturally read left to right, it is how we deal with bonuses so getting the lettering done the same is going to be my bug bear for you. :P
dolomite13 wrote:So what do we think about the gameplay for this one?

It looks like you have tried to cram a lot in there and all of it is getting lost on the small map. Lets go over it this weekend sometime as this is going to be a doozie to do. :evil:


I will look at changing the lettering of the systems as soon as I get the main game-play settled. Or on the next draft of the map... But I agree.

Yep I am thinking of changing to a iconographic key similar to how I did it in Krazy Kingdoms. As I am completely unhappy with the small map and not exactly happy with how it is all looking on the space background. My main focus right now however is overall gameplay moreso than presentation.

I plan to look at the map again this weekend when I get some time.

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:51 am

I like the additional deployable bonus at 6, 12, and 18. I think it will help speed the gameplay up further. The large map looks okay to me, but I do agree the small map looks pretty cramped.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:27 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I like the additional deployable bonus at 6, 12, and 18. I think it will help speed the gameplay up further. The large map looks okay to me, but I do agree the small map looks pretty cramped.

Thanx.

I am hoping to have a revision done soon. I am cycling through doing Valentines, Q*onqr, and Homeworlds but I had to make a few Krazy Kingdoms changes and other demands on my time are making it take a little longer than I would like. I plan to create a fresh photoshop file and build the map again from scratch, which won't take all that long actually, and this time using much cleaner and sharper images. I expect to post an update before the end of the month.

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:16 am

dolomite, looking for an update sooner rather than later for this one. Any time frame for this to happen?
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:50 am

koontz1973 wrote:dolomite, looking for an update sooner rather than later for this one. Any time frame for this to happen?

Yep... probably later today ... if I can get some time this afternoon ... otherwise tomorrow evening for sure.

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:29 pm

Hope we get to see that update soon :)
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:57 pm

OliverFA wrote:Hope we get to see that update soon :)


Looking like Monday evening sometime. I worked on it for a few hours today but need to spend the evening with my wife now :)

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:23 am

My contract ended today so I have tomorrow off ... so look for an update tuesday afternoon. I am busy working on replacing 90% of the text with iconography and so far I think I am on the right track.

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:01 am

Updated map coming in 30 minutes sorry didn't want comments on the one I posted as it has some flaws.

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