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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:24 pm

As I'm reading it, you won't ever collect the underdog bonus, as losing conditions trigger with each territory conquering. I'm reading it as "less than 4 and you're gone," yet the underdogs reward 1, 2, and 3 territories each.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:53 am

I'm probably interpreting the losing condition incorrectly then. I figured that you would have a chance to attack and get back over the mark. Oh well, I'll flip it back without the losing condition, and we'll see it works. I'd hate to see stalemates develop with someone just collecting on one territory. But in all the game types it shouldn't really affect gameplay in this way any more than those game types that lend themselves to stacking. As long as the values are reasonable.

Names are easy enough to move around. Things won't be completely accurate afterall... But I'll strive to get it as close as possible. The Bridge though, that's the Walt Whitman. (Like you said, Camden should be bigger) For balance sake the Ben Franklin Bridge was taken out. I am still tempted to put in the 4 bridges as named regions and seperate the Philly and Jersey sides of the river, and maybe throw in a "Hold 3 Bridges for +2" etc...

We'll see, lemme fix these things and see what's-what.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby carlpgoodrich on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:41 am

I think it would be good to have a "hold two or you're out" losing condition. In general, with the underdog bonus, players will not attack other weak players unless they can eliminate them. However, in team games, I will kill them except for one spot that I can protect, then he will just deploy on me every turn. This is not in the spirit of the underdog bonus, and I think having the losing condition helps. However, the greater the losing condition, the more territories you need to prevent early eliminations in the early rounds (and to prevent underdog bonuses being used early). I am assuming that if there is a losing condition of "hold X territories", then the underdog bonus will be for X, X+1, X+2 territories.

Also, I think the underdog bonus should be lowered. 1,2, and 4 is still pretty significant. You don't want people to WANT to have fewer territories.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:02 pm

How's that update coming? I'd like to move this map once we've got one.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:15 am

It's coming, I got a beautiful idea from Z-Rambo via pm to add an inset map for Center City. I've had issue with the additional territories in New Jersey that isn't "Philadelphia" per-say... but I will likely quash a hunk of those territories for space to inset a bonus in the 4 territory area currently around Olde City, Strawberry Mansion, Kensington, and Port Richmond. I'm really thinking I can put in there a maybe 3/4 profile with the city's buildings and historic monuments.

Perhaps this will make the map unique and intriguing enough without a gimmick bonus structure, but I won't rule it out completely. I'll rework the map when I get a chance. I might have a lot of time going forward, or not... we'll see. Hoping to get something out before the 1st, but hopefully not much past it at the worst.
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Re: Philadelphia - Draft updated 7/11

Postby jefjef on Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:55 am

AndyDufresne wrote:A modern-day Philadelphia map isn't too interesting for me. However, a historical city map---sounds like something I'd support. And certainly Philadelphia has a history to build upon.


--Andy


I sure agree with Andy. How about a late 1700's Philadelphia. I think Phili has some historical landmarks that not only can be graphically featured they can also be game play/bonus featured.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby porkenbeans on Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:42 pm

I like this map, but I suggest that you alter the colors a bit. Something along these lines.-
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Last edited by porkenbeans on Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:56 pm

A bit early for graphics nitpicks, but I agree - although the land should be a bit lighter, especially with the black text.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby porkenbeans on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:56 pm

natty_dread wrote:A bit early for graphics nitpicks, but I agree - although the land should be a bit lighter, especially with the black text.
I do NOT think that it is EVER too early for GFX nitpicks, because if you wait till later, the map tends to set in stone. (if you get my drift).
I have found that GFX changes are MUCH more readily accepted earlier rather than later. ;)
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:04 am

Lemme hit the gameplay here first guys, I'm on adding in a better representation of Philly by seeing more of the "central" part of the city, and in the process taking out much of what I've added that's really New Jersey.... :P

18th century Philly isn't something I'm interested in doing, it's very small. It's just a small portion of the "Olde City" territory. Besides when you think of it, the reason stuff became historical is because things happened there, and then they became remembered after passing years. Independence Hall was a functioning government building for the city and state for about 100 years after 1776.

I'm getting there, gimme a couple more days, and I'll have something to show yas.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/9 pg 4 - POLL

Postby carlpgoodrich on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:32 am

I really like your idea of having an inset of Center City. There is a lot in there and I look forward to seeing how the gameplay shakes out, with or without the underdog bonus.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:15 am

Click image to enlarge.
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I've reverted back to just Philly, been toying with a bridge bonus, finally have that realized.
Added a killer neutral... reverts to 4 at the moment, basically calling it the "Bridge Toll" - HA!
Added Center City bonus insert.
The so-called "underdog" bonus can still be toyed with and debated, but may not be needed now, maybe....
Couple name changes couple territory lines moved, nothing major moved there.
Kinda muted the colors, the green is still pretty bright though, not overly worried about it right now.


Overall the map feels less cramped to me, but there's plenty to do, what say you folks?
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:58 am

I think it's a bit disturbing that the inset doesn't match the territory on the main map, shape-wise...
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:30 pm

That's easily fixable. :P Center City really is that squarish. Logan's Circle is the only thing not squarish in Center City. The map I used to create the inset and the spot of the actual map Is probably off set a little north/south, and probably should be narrower on the main map to match perfectly.

But it probably doesn't have to be "that" perfect.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby carlpgoodrich on Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:14 pm

Cool, I like the inset. Wondering if University City could be connected to Rittenhouse Square or Art Museum, or if you think that would throw the gameplay off too much? The bridges on Walnut st, Chestnut st, Market st and JFK very heavily used. It also seems a bit strange for the inset (the focal point of the map) to only touch two other regions.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:06 am

This is is ready for gameplay for sure.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:35 pm

I don't like that the two northeast bonuses together only have one and a half borders with the rest of the map. Not sure what's the best way to fix that, though.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby FrancisBoyle on Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Now that Jersey is gone you don't need the bridges. You need the South St. bridge or something to connect center city with university city. Port Richmond should maybe also connect to Bridesburg. Also, might want to call "Northern Liberties" bonus "North Philly" instead. I think the graphics are OK. This map is definitely going to need that underdog bonus to give it a unique quality though.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby porkenbeans on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:53 pm

Yes, I agree with you Red, Just Philly is best. It gives you a place to put the legends. Although, I would change the color of the text in the legend to something different than the rest. ;)
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:58 am

There's a number of ways to go, adding in a few connections will alter bonus values. They're kinda subjective at the moment.

I could do:
SW Philly + South Philly into a larger South Philly Bonus with an additional connection from University City to the Art Museum
Just add the connection between University City and the Art Museum
The Great Northeast + Northern Liberties = a larger Great Northeast bonus with an additional connection from Bridesburg to Port Richmond
Just add the connection between Bridesburg and Port Richmond

Or any combination of these.

FrancisBoyle wrote:Now that Jersey is gone you don't need the bridges. You need the South St. bridge or something to connect center city with university city. Port Richmond should maybe also connect to Bridesburg. Also, might want to call "Northern Liberties" bonus "North Philly" instead. I think the graphics are OK. This map is definitely going to need that underdog bonus to give it a unique quality though.


Remember, the bridges are a bonus too now, and connect though a killer neutral. (New Jersey tolls) Weirdly this is actually true on 3 of the 4 bridges, the tolls are only paid from the Jersey side heading into Philly, NOT from Philly into Jersey.

Alright, I'll work on ironing out the underdog bonus structure.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:47 am

RedBaron0 wrote:Remember, the bridges are a bonus too now, and connect though a killer neutral. (New Jersey tolls) Weirdly this is actually true on 3 of the 4 bridges, the tolls are only paid from the Jersey side heading into Philly, NOT from Philly into Jersey.


New Jersey, they got you coming and going! :lol: Looking good no real comments right now.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:36 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:Remember, the bridges are a bonus too now, and connect though a killer neutral. (New Jersey tolls) Weirdly this is actually true on 3 of the 4 bridges, the tolls are only paid from the Jersey side heading into Philly, NOT from Philly into Jersey.


New Jersey, they got you coming and going! :lol: Looking good no real comments right now.


Not coming and going, just going.... Delaware River Port Authority. :roll: That's why a lot people always try and use the Tacony-Palmayra Bridge if up that way, it isn't owned by the DRPA. The toll is just $2, compared to the $4 for the other 3 bridges. Only drawback (no pun intended) is that the Tacony-Palmayra Bridge is a a bascule bridge... Get caught over there when the bridge is up, and you'll wish you went down to the Betsy Ross and paid the extra 2 bucks.

I'm working here and thereon the map, I'll give ya'll an update soon enough. ;)
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby Z-Rambo on Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:09 pm

My only question is: Why have the Bridge bonus, if there are no connected territories with them and they revert to a 4 neutral? No New Jersey would make that bonus useless since it reverts to 4 neutral every turn. I recommend adding New Jersey in 4 segments.....Mount Holly(North), Cherry Hill(North-Central), Camden(South Central), and Vineland(South), thus giving a reason for the bridge use and giving 4 more territories not taking from Philadelphia.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby RedBaron0 on Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:56 am

It doesn't work like that. The Spot in New Jersey is the toll booth... I should think about putting a toll booth graphic there. The bridges connect to the tolls, and the toll booth connects to the bridges. Only the toll is a killer neutral. You can theoretically attack from Tacony down to Penn's Landing via the bridges and the toll booth going through just 5 territories.

I've been playing with some things here tonight, but I need to get some sleep, I'll have some time tomorrow too, and horefully will throw out some numbers to look at, and maybe an update as well.
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Re: Philadelphia - draft updated 12/31 pg 5

Postby Z-Rambo on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:59 pm

Here's an idea. Instead of tolls, make New Jersey the connector for all the bridges and either have New Jersey as a reverting 10 neutral or make each bridge a reverting 4 neutral while adding New Jersey as an extra territory in whole with a minus 1 troop each round held(Call it the New Jersey Tax).
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