Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [20.5.12] V10-P7 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 31, 2012 1:50 am

I'm working on small changes in graphics at present...
but i don't want to do anything much further until someone has had a look at gameplay.
Any offers....
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [20.5.12] V10-P7 Gameplay?

Postby zimmah on Thu May 31, 2012 3:40 am

the map looks very complicated to me, i think it should be worked on to make it more clear.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [20.5.12] V10-P7 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 31, 2012 3:49 am

zimmah wrote:the map looks very complicated to me, i think it should be worked on to make it more clear.


Ah. i've already done that from the original. Glad to hear suggestions if you have them...
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [20.5.12] V10-P7 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu May 31, 2012 8:42 am

This map has a lot going on...I will try to take a look this evening and get back with some ideas. Is there any way that the Supply bases/ships can be made a different color than the rest of the ships? It's taking me a long time to locate them, lol.

Thanks.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 31, 2012 12:21 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:This map has a lot going on...I will try to take a look this evening and get back with some ideas. Is there any way that the Supply bases/ships can be made a different color than the rest of the ships? It's taking me a long time to locate them, lol.
Thanks.

Yes it has a lot going on...to try to remain relatively true to the history where 6 scirmishes were fought along the south English Coast it was never going to be a small map nor a simple one.
To make the map slightly different the Treasury concept was added.
Because of the 12 players It also allows for expansion of the team game concepts, thus adding other dimensions to CC
i.e. 2 x 6 players, 6 x 2 players, 3 x 4 players, 4 x 3 players.


Version 11.
1. Supply ships are now coloured
2. re-organising the top legend...still have the land armies of de Parma to put in as a bonus.

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:38 am

Honestly, I do not see any GP issues at present. It's a conquest map, which makes things a little simpler, even though this might be the most complicated map on the site when all is said and done :D.

I will get with ian to see if he has any issues.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby iancanton on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:40 pm

i don't yet understand the map, but there are certainly a few issues (and more will probably rear their head when i manage to work out even half of what's happening)!

there are seven yellow command ships, but san lorenzo has no shield. what is its significance?

de parma has B and A instead of B and S.

the command ships at the ends are mostly a bit closer to each other than are the command ships in the middle, which is good because the end positions are advantageous in multi-player games. however, some are close enough to bombard each other, which is a bit unfair if these are start positions. perhaps rearrange the westernmost two command ships and other territories to bring them closer to the others.

we also need to address the region bonus, since 36, 48 (currently proposed), 60, 72 and so on are not good values for the number of starting regions.

ian. :)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:06 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I do not see any GP issues at present. It's a conquest map, which makes things a little simpler, even though this might be the most complicated map on the site when all is said and done :D.

I will get with ian to see if he has any issues.

There's really not much complicated about it. It has a pretty basic bonus structure. It's just the layout is a little "unorthodox". I think some of the wording could be changed to help clarify some things. I'll look into it more tomorrow, when I'll have more than a few minutes.

-Sully
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:28 pm

Ok, great concept for a map, you never cease to amaze me.

I see a few general balance issues; I think also by highlighting ideal strategies for the various starting positions, it will help elucidate other issues that I failed to notice.

San Cristobel: Probably the worst starting position. There are no bonuses anywhere near here, although some may appreciate the isolation on early turn Escalaters.

San Juan Du Portugal: This one has the nastiest ideal strategy. Basically, your best bet is to take Ark Royal since it is so spread out, it probably can't defend itself (unless it focuses on water).

Ark Royal: Ignore the land, focus on getting Isle of Wight.

Revenge: If no red player, beacons. Else, portland.

Triumph: beacons. Get ready for a war with Capitania.

Capitania: If no red player, eddystone. If there is a red player, go get his ship.

Santa Ana: Similar to San Cristobel

Victory: connect your armies and then work on the fireships

Rainbow: Grab a quick Beacon bonus (and Fort bonsu) and then get ready to fight for San Lorenzo. Without a Vanguard player, this is my favourite starting position. If Sunny is on and you see that there is a Vanguard Player, you may want to go straight for the San Lorenzo.

Vanguard: With no de Parma player, go for San Lorenzo. With de Parma player, strike an alliance and then go for San Lorenzo as the fighting will kill you.

de Parma: sucks. You could go into a turn 1 war with Vanguard. Unless you get spectacular dice though, it is suicide. Netherlands should be a bonus region.

San Martin: I am not sure what to do here. If the gravelines connected to the Bow or the Bow was the start instead of the stern, this wouldn't be so tough, it would just make a 3-way war for the San Lorenzo. (probably not though as the Rainbow player would drop out to focus on land and firelines). As it stands, I don't know what the ideal strategy is.

Anyways, there is my report. Hopefully, some players will agree with some things and disagree with others but now we have a starting point to focus on gameplay.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:03 pm

iancanton wrote:i don't yet understand the map, but there are certainly a few issues (and more will probably rear their head when i manage to work out even half of what's happening)!

Don't tell me i've got you stumped ian...well i never :-$
there are seven yellow command ships, but san lorenzo has no shield. what is its significance?

de parma has B and A instead of B and S.


i am still figuring what to do there...there is also from research today...some misinformation about the commander of the san lorenzo Don Hugo de Macodana...everywhere i am looking there is links to what appears to be his fatherwho died in 1528....so i am reluctant to use him.

seven what appears to be command ships, but you'll notice that de Parma has no ship <- land based army....B and A for no other than alpha significance...but prolly should change that to Front and Rear :idea:

Anyways, see how we go....de parma may be the one to start neutral out of the seven


the command ships at the ends are mostly a bit closer to each other than are the command ships in the middle, which is good because the end positions are advantageous in multi-player games. however, some are close enough to bombard each other, which is a bit unfair if these are start positions. perhaps rearrange the westernmost two command ships and other territories to bring them closer to the others.


you mean Triumph and Capitania?....and San Lorenzo?? and Vanguard ?
i should be able to pull them apart to insert another tert between those

we also need to address the region bonus, since 36, 48 (currently proposed), 60, 72 and so on are not good values for the number of starting regions.
ian. :)

OK, but let's see what happens with ship placement first, then i think we can look at numbers.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:03 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I do not see any GP issues at present. It's a conquest map, which makes things a little simpler, even though this might be the most complicated map on the site when all is said and done :D.

I will get with ian to see if he has any issues.

There's really not much complicated about it. It has a pretty basic bonus structure. It's just the layout is a little "unorthodox". I think some of the wording could be changed to help clarify some things. I'll look into it more tomorrow, when I'll have more than a few minutes.

-Sully

Cool Sully, thanks
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:59 pm

No comment :(
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:38 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:No comment :(

Gees DoomYoshi..gimme time pls ;)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [1.6.12] V11-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:46 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Ok, great concept for a map, you never cease to amaze me.

Thank-you DoomYoshi...appreciate you popped in to give your thoughts. :)

I see a few general balance issues; I think also by highlighting ideal strategies for the various starting positions, it will help elucidate other issues that I failed to notice.

I see you've given good thought to this...i won't go into each one specifically since it appears from your feedback most of them needed shifting, so i have. Perhaps you' like to see if this layout is more balanced.

Anyways, there is my report. Hopefully, some players will agree with some things and disagree with others but now we have a starting point to focus on gameplay.

Good feedback. Thanks. :)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.6.12] V12-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:00 pm

Version 12. - with armies and starts

Please note - N.S. del Rosario has no shield at present - still researching :geek:

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V12 small map
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.6.12] V12-P8 Gameplay?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 pm

Quite a dramatic shift. I won't have much time to look into it before Wednesday Night though.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.6.12] V12-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:43 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Quite a dramatic shift. I won't have much time to look into it before Wednesday Night though.

That's cool 8-)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.6.12] V12-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:58 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Quite a dramatic shift. I won't have much time to look into it before Wednesday Night though.

I'm making another dramatic shift to get some vessels closer and more even to land supplies etc....please hold off on analysis until that is done. ;)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.6.12] V12-P8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:21 pm

OK, this is the updated V12.
with numbers first
Click image to enlarge.
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then some analaysis on the starting positions...as best i can work them...where there are anomolies these might be able to be overcome with adjustments to neutrals
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and the map without numbers
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:58 pm

I've simply changed a couple of colours now that i found the glass texture for them

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby Nola_Lifer on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:35 am

Damn, this is awesome! Only real problem for me is the squares for the Spanish Treasury. The white lines kind of trip me out. :mrgreen:
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:01 am

I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Damn, this is awesome! Only real problem for me is the squares for the Spanish Treasury. The white lines kind of trip me out. :mrgreen:

I'll change those for you. :) probably to yellow tint same as on the map.

nolefan5311 wrote:I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.

Mmm. i look forward to that. ;)
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:23 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.

Mmm. i look forward to that. ;)[/quote]

:lol:
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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [23.6.12] V13-P9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Honestly, I think it's almost there cairns. The only issues I have is that the proximity between some ships is a little too close. You might think about making the one regions that border two ships (Disdain, Firestone E, La Girona, Army Calais) neutral 2's to even out the neutrals between ships.

Also, you might want to think about increasing the amount of troops a player starts out with on their monarch. With it being a losing condition, it might be too vulnerable to an attacker with good dice too early in the game. Since this map is meant to replicate real life, I think the Monarch should be the most difficult position to take and not easily conquered on the first turn.

Since a player gets a +1 for holding 9 ships, do they also get the standard +1/3 terts? There's nothing that leads me to think otherwise, I was just curious.

I'm really excited to see what Sully can do with the xml. The attack routes from the Treasury are very interesting.
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