4 Star Meats [Quenched]

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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:41 am

We will go ahead and sticky this for the stamp. It's pretty darn close.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby ManBungalow on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:30 pm

What does the small image look like?


And a really petty point - the T in Tongue for the special offer should be capitalised!
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby anamainiacks on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:44 am

Sorry if this has already been brought up - I didn't want to read through the earlier 26 pages.

Did you have to method of coming up with the bonus values for the various regions? Looking at them now, they don't seem very balanced... The most glaring one to me is, why is the Ox Tail only worth 1, while all the legs are with 2, when they all have the same number of territories to conquer (though LF only has 4), and to defend? Ignoring the tail tip, it has 1 territory to defend (Ox Tail Base) bordering 3 regions (Company Logo, Top Side, Minute Steak).

In comparison, all legs - ignoring their hooves - have 1 territory to defend, bordering less than 3 regions, except the R.Hind leg.
  • L.F. Marrow Bone borders Outer Skirt (1)
  • R.Fore Shank borders Plate and Outer Skirt (2)
  • L.Hind Shank borders Bottom Flank (1)
  • R.Hind Shank borders Round Tip, Tri-Tip, Top Flank (3).
So if anything, the Ox Tail would seem like one of the harder 'continents' to hold between the 5 of them. It should be given a 2-troop bonus as well, I think.

I also think Crown should be downgraded to a 2-troop bonus region. While it has 3 territories in total and 3 territories to defend, only 2 territories can attack the region, which is a far cry from the 5 territories that can attack Flank.

And I know we were only asked for gameplay input, but I found it a little hard to link the legend to the parts of the cow (yes, I don't know my parts of a cow very well!). I did notice there was a slide bolding of the territorial words that were the same as its bonus regions, so that could be made more obvious (:

In all, I was pleasantly surprised when I came to see what the front page was moo-ing about - love the concept, very unique (:
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby dana1971 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:23 pm

Thanks for the feedback, I'm happy to make those changes anamainiacks.

Best Wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:06 am

anamainiacks wrote:And I know we were only asked for gameplay input, but I found it a little hard to link the legend to the parts of the cow (yes, I don't know my parts of a cow very well!). I did notice there was a slide bolding of the territorial words that were the same as its bonus regions, so that could be made more obvious (:

Yeah, this might help with finding each bonus zone. You could even underline the 'Main' region in each bonus zone, and that may simply be enough to attract a player's eye.


--Andy
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:13 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
anamainiacks wrote:And I know we were only asked for gameplay input, but I found it a little hard to link the legend to the parts of the cow (yes, I don't know my parts of a cow very well!). I did notice there was a slide bolding of the territorial words that were the same as its bonus regions, so that could be made more obvious (:

Yeah, this might help with finding each bonus zone. You could even underline the 'Main' region in each bonus zone, and that may simply be enough to attract a player's eye.


--Andy


Great idea.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby nolefan5311 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:47 pm

anamainiacks wrote:Sorry if this has already been brought up - I didn't want to read through the earlier 26 pages.

Did you have to method of coming up with the bonus values for the various regions? Looking at them now, they don't seem very balanced... The most glaring one to me is, why is the Ox Tail only worth 1, while all the legs are with 2, when they all have the same number of territories to conquer (though LF only has 4), and to defend? Ignoring the tail tip, it has 1 territory to defend (Ox Tail Base) bordering 3 regions (Company Logo, Top Side, Minute Steak).

In comparison, all legs - ignoring their hooves - have 1 territory to defend, bordering less than 3 regions, except the R.Hind leg.
  • L.F. Marrow Bone borders Outer Skirt (1)
  • R.Fore Shank borders Plate and Outer Skirt (2)
  • L.Hind Shank borders Bottom Flank (1)
  • R.Hind Shank borders Round Tip, Tri-Tip, Top Flank (3).
So if anything, the Ox Tail would seem like one of the harder 'continents' to hold between the 5 of them. It should be given a 2-troop bonus as well, I think.

I also think Crown should be downgraded to a 2-troop bonus region. While it has 3 territories in total and 3 territories to defend, only 2 territories can attack the region, which is a far cry from the 5 territories that can attack Flank.

And I know we were only asked for gameplay input, but I found it a little hard to link the legend to the parts of the cow (yes, I don't know my parts of a cow very well!). I did notice there was a slide bolding of the territorial words that were the same as its bonus regions, so that could be made more obvious (:

In all, I was pleasantly surprised when I came to see what the front page was moo-ing about - love the concept, very unique (:


I agree with everything said here.

In addition, Sirloin needs to be reduced to a +4 bonus. Suggested bonus value puts it at 4.75, but that's with a neutral 3 right in the middle of it (Tenderloin) and another n3 as a border region. And Rump needs to be lowered a +4

So just to clarify:
Ox tail needs to be increased to a +2
Crown needs to be reduced to a +2
Sirloin needs to be reduced to a +4
Rump needs to be reduced to a +4

Also, Flank, Crown, and Brisket continents all need to have a region coded as neutral to start the game to prevent a bonus from being dropped. I would suggest Flank region, Brisket region, and Bridge region be the neutrals.

Also, in the first post please post the map image with the starting neutrals. I count 75 total territories, with 7 starting neutrals (4 Star Meats logo, Special Offer, Tri Tip, Tenderloin, Flank, Brisket, and Bridge), leaving 68 to be distributed at the drop, which is a good number. Is this correct?

2 player games - 22 regions per player (24 neutrals)
3 players - 22 (2 extra neutrals)
4 players - 17 (0 extra neutrals)
5 players - 13 (3 extra neutrals)
6 players - 11 (2 extra neutrals)
7 players - 9 (5 extra neutrals
8 players - 8 (4 extra neutrals)

Once you make these changes, I believe we can stamp it.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby iancanton on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:34 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:In addition, Sirloin needs to be reduced to a +4 bonus. Suggested bonus value puts it at 4.75, but that's with a neutral 3 right in the middle of it (Tenderloin) and another n3 as a border region.

nolefan, this is the one part of the comprehensive analyses by anamainiacks and u (thanks, both!) where i differ because, not only do the neutrals fail to protect completely any regions, but the sirloin bonus zone is non-contiguous, which makes forting a more difficult job; is +5 a good compromise?

how about swapping the colour of crown with that of rib? the difference in brightness between the crown and neck colours is almost imperceptible if viewing in black-and-white.

otherwise, it's virtually all good news on the gameplay front.

ian. :)
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:56 pm

iancanton wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:In addition, Sirloin needs to be reduced to a +4 bonus. Suggested bonus value puts it at 4.75, but that's with a neutral 3 right in the middle of it (Tenderloin) and another n3 as a border region.

nolefan, this is the one part of the comprehensive analyses by anamainiacks and u (thanks, both!) where i differ because, not only do the neutrals fail to protect completely any regions, but the sirloin bonus zone is non-contiguous, which makes forting a more difficult job; is +5 a good compromise?


That works for me. I tend to want to undervalue bonus regions but you make a good point.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [7 October 2012] v16 pg 26

Postby dana1971 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:18 am

No problem, I can do that. Should I be checking the map in black in white?
I tried underlining the region names this weekend and found the lines competed with the boarder lines and made the map a bit confusing. I did however make the region names bolder so hopefully that will be enough. I'm almost ready for a new post.
Best wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby dana1971 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Hi all,

I've cleaned up the graphics and decided to remove the hanging meat because I did a version where the meat looked real but it was a bit odd and didn't fit in, then I did a version with the meat rendered in a more illustrative fashion but it didn't fit with the realistic chalk board and frame. So I decided it best to just drop it.

I took off the black boarder on the stars because I thought they may make the numbers hard to read, but now I'm thinking I may need to make them bigger so you can see them more clearly.

I took on board changes to bonuses and neutrals, and tried to make the continent names more clear.

Here is the latest.

Click image to enlarge.
image


The following regions will start with neutrals.

Tenderloin: 2
Tri-Tip: 2
Special Offer: killer 3
4 Star Meats Logo: 3

Let us know what I need to do next. Tackle the XML code, or is it to early for that?

Best Wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby ironmanbravo on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:31 pm

Great Work Dana...17 versions is a lot but it will be worth it in the end.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:12 pm

dana1971 wrote:Hi all,

I've cleaned up the graphics and decided to remove the hanging meat because I did a version where the meat looked real but it was a bit odd and didn't fit in, then I did a version with the meat rendered in a more illustrative fashion but it didn't fit with the realistic chalk board and frame. So I decided it best to just drop it.

I took off the black boarder on the stars because I thought they may make the numbers hard to read, but now I'm thinking I may need to make them bigger so you can see them more clearly.

I took on board changes to bonuses and neutrals, and tried to make the continent names more clear.

Here is the latest.

Click image to enlarge.
image


The following regions will start with neutrals.

Tenderloin: 2
Tri-Tip: 2
Special Offer: killer 3
4 Star Meats Logo: 3

Let us know what I need to do next. Tackle the XML code, or is it to early for that?

Best Wishes,
Dana


I like the changes, but you need to code a starting neutral in the Flank, Crown, and Brisket bonus zones to prevent, as much as possible, a bonus being dropped. Once you do that I can stamp it and send it up to the graphics guys. And I do agree that it is a little tough to locate the stars now.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby dana1971 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:57 am

Thanks,

Here are some additional regions that will start as neutrals:

Eye - neutral 3
Top Brisket - neutral 3
Flank - neutral 3
Left fore shine - neutral 3

Does that about cover it Nolefan?
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:07 am

dana1971 wrote:Thanks,

Here are some additional regions that will start as neutrals:

Eye - neutral 3
Top Brisket - neutral 3
Flank - neutral 3
Left fore shine - neutral 3

Does that about cover it Nolefan?


It does. I would recommend changing the neutral from Top Brisket to Brisket, since Top Brisket borders a lot of regions, and when Brisket gets distributed, those troops will be trapped. But that's your decision :), and certainly not enough to keep this one from being stamped.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:22 am

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Onward and upward Dana. Congrats!!

Just don't forget to post the image with the starting neutrals in the original post.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:04 am

OK Dana, now for some more graphics work. Here are my main points of contention with this map as of right now. Not a very big list. ;)

Fat - give this a slight yellow and some texture. Plain white is not what fat looks like, even on posters.
This map as of right now is too large. With some moving, you can crop a lot of.
Company logo chalk board - top right.
Auto deploy specials - top left.
Prices and impassables move in a tad. This alone will let you crop right down to the frame. Make it the same size as the top part of the frame and you have a winner.
Special offer sticker - the text needs sorting. Tail tip has no corresponding region on the map (I know it is ox tail). Also, it looks scrunched up in places.
Stars are hard to see behind the 88s, and with coloured ones on, almost imposable.

Can I ask you to bung on some triple 8s so we can see the map with them incase things need to get moved around a bit. As I said, these are my main gripes now so not doing to badly then.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby generalhead on Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:57 pm

This map looks so cool. Can't wait to play a game on it.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [17October 2012] v17 pg 27

Postby dana1971 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:55 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Image

Onward and upward Dana. Congrats!!

Just don't forget to post the image with the starting neutrals in the original post.


Awesome, thanks for the sticker.

One step closer. =D>
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Re: 4 Star Meats [20 October 2012] v18 pg 28

Postby dana1971 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Hi all,

Here's the latest.

Click image to enlarge.
image


koontz1973 wrote:Fat - give this a slight yellow and some texture.

Done
koontz1973 wrote:This map as of right now is too large. With some moving, you can crop a lot of.
Company logo chalk board - top right.
Auto deploy specials - top left.
Prices and impassables move in a tad. This alone will let you crop right down to the frame. Make it the same size as the top part of the frame and you have a winner.

Done
koontz1973 wrote:Special offer sticker - the text needs sorting. Tail tip has no corresponding region on the map (I know it is ox tail). Also, it looks scrunched up in places.
Stars are hard to see behind the 88s, and with coloured ones on, almost imposable.

Special offer sticker? I made it a bit bigger so the words are more legible, is that what you're talking about?
Ox Tail Tip? I don't understand this comment?
I've made a few regions larger so that the words fit more comfortably. Let me know if there are other regions you feel need more space.
I've sorted the star issue.

I look forward to feedback.

Best Wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [20 October 2012] v18 pg 28

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:09 pm

Tai Tip in the special offer sticker, what territ does it correspond to?

Text in the sticker also needs sorting. Here is a way to do it that will look good. Type the text on a straight line with enough space in between the letters. The copy and paste each letter into the sticker. Use the rotating tool in what ever graphics programme you have to give you the angle. You will need to do this manually to get it done nice.

Fat good, size good, stars good.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [20 October 2012] v18 pg 28

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:57 am

I've just noticed that you spelled 'Tongue' wrong on the sticker.

Other than that, I can't wait to play this.

And I think it's obvious which region 'tail tip' refers to.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [20 October 2012] v18 pg 28

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:16 am

ManBungalow wrote:And I think it's obvious which region 'tail tip' refers to.

It may be obvious to you and also to me, but to others it may not be so clear. Always best to make things clearer.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [21 October 2012] v19 pg 28

Postby dana1971 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:47 pm

Here are the fixes. Thanks for spotting my bad spelling too. I'm not a great speller.

Click image to enlarge.
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OK I think I got everything graphically.

Has anyone spotted anything else? 8-[

Best Wishes
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Re: 4 Star Meats [21 October 2012] v19 pg 28

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:10 pm

In the Special Offer text, should you add a comma after 'hooves' so it doesn't read as "Special offer on all hooves tongue and ox tail tip. ..." ?


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