[Beta] - Ethiopia [26.8.13] V16 XML Stamped

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Re: Ethiopia: [9.1.13] V05-P3 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:04 am

x-raider wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
x-raider wrote:Aw, why'd you have to go ruin it like that.
Either make it a small-size map or give it a bunch of extra bonuses.
You needn't do both.


Well, x-raider, i haven't exactly ruined it...yet!
It is reversible if people don't like it.
So thanks for you feedback on that.

Sure.
But I can't ask people to support my opinion if I don't voice it now, can I? :P



nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:I just got back from a long vacation and still trying to get my bearings back, so bear with me :D, but I don't like the new bonuses at all. They clutter the space up and are going to require a lot more neutrals to be placed around the map.

Good to see this one back into production though :)


OK, are any of them useful? or should they be excised completely and leave the map as simple as possible.


That is probably what I would do.


OK, feedback is slow at present, and it seems people were happy withou the complications i threw into the map....
so i'll get rid fo them....going back to previous version 5 then we can move forward again with other stuff.

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Re: Ethiopia: [27.12.12] V06-P3 Gameplay?

Postby x-raider on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:36 am

You still need to include the impassable legend.
I suggest putting it above the bonus legend.

As can be seen in N.W.Oromia, the mountains could do with a touch up so they blend with the map and the colours better.
And the rivers are largely inconsistent...

Good luck ;)
Sorry your previous changes didn't go down well.
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Re: Ethiopia: [27.12.12] V06-P3 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:38 pm

x-raider wrote:You still need to include the impassable legend.
I suggest putting it above the bonus legend.

As can be seen in N.W.Oromia, the mountains could do with a touch up so they blend with the map and the colours better.
And the rivers are largely inconsistent...

Good luck ;)
Sorry your previous changes didn't go down well.


Issues, will fix.
Dont be sorry about the changes...some things aren't meant to be. :)
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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:15 pm

Version 7.

1. Mountains fixed.
2. Impassables added
3. Rivers fixed
4. neighbouring country names font changed
5. title adjusted
6. buildings adjusted
7. opacity of region colours reduced slightly

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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:28 pm

cairns, I will go ahead and sticky this one for the stamp, but I suggest removing the neutral starts from all the capitals since they don't have any significance (that I can see) other than increasing some of the 3 region bonuses to 4. 27 starting regions is also a golden number and in 1v1 games increases the amount of starting regions per player from 8 to 9 which I prefer on a map this small. Also, in the continents the capitals are in, you don't need to worry about bonus dropping since all those continents are 4 regions. As long as N. Afar and W. Snnpr start neutrals, there's no need for any other to.

If anybody else has any suggestions, now is the time to speak up. Otherwise, this map will receive the gameplay stamp in 48-72 hours.
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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:51 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:cairns, I will go ahead and sticky this one for the stamp, but I suggest removing the neutral starts from all the capitals since they don't have any significance (that I can see) other than increasing some of the 3 region bonuses to 4. 27 starting regions is also a golden number and in 1v1 games increases the amount of starting regions per player from 8 to 9 which I prefer on a map this small. Also, in the continents the capitals are in, you don't need to worry about bonus dropping since all those continents are 4 regions. As long as N. Afar and W. Snnpr start neutrals, there's no need for any other to.
...

OK, but is there any need to increase the amount of each neutral in those territories i.e. once SNNPR is taken it's an easy +2 to add to any player's army.
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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:12 pm

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:cairns, I will go ahead and sticky this one for the stamp, but I suggest removing the neutral starts from all the capitals since they don't have any significance (that I can see) other than increasing some of the 3 region bonuses to 4. 27 starting regions is also a golden number and in 1v1 games increases the amount of starting regions per player from 8 to 9 which I prefer on a map this small. Also, in the continents the capitals are in, you don't need to worry about bonus dropping since all those continents are 4 regions. As long as N. Afar and W. Snnpr start neutrals, there's no need for any other to.
...

OK, but is there any need to increase the amount of each neutral in those territories i.e. once SNNPR is taken it's an easy +2 to add to any player's army.


You could increase it to a n4 if you'd like. ian and I discussed this and came to the conclusion that if there are not starting neutrals in the larger continents, players my focus on grabbing one of those and not dedicate troops to the smaller bonus. But making it a n4 won't hurt anything.
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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:46 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:cairns, I will go ahead and sticky this one for the stamp, but I suggest removing the neutral starts from all the capitals since they don't have any significance (that I can see) other than increasing some of the 3 region bonuses to 4. 27 starting regions is also a golden number and in 1v1 games increases the amount of starting regions per player from 8 to 9 which I prefer on a map this small. Also, in the continents the capitals are in, you don't need to worry about bonus dropping since all those continents are 4 regions. As long as N. Afar and W. Snnpr start neutrals, there's no need for any other to.
...

OK, but is there any need to increase the amount of each neutral in those territories i.e. once SNNPR is taken it's an easy +2 to add to any player's army.


You could increase it to a n4 if you'd like. ian and I discussed this and came to the conclusion that if there are not starting neutrals in the larger continents, players my focus on grabbing one of those and not dedicate troops to the smaller bonus. But making it a n4 won't hurt anything.


OKies. done, update shortly

PS...give me a couple of days...the V07S.png master file is kaput, so i'll have to re-work everthing from a previous version. Bummer. :o :( :(
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Re: Ethiopia: [10.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:59 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:cairns, I will go ahead and sticky this one for the stamp, but I suggest removing the neutral starts from all the capitals since they don't have any significance (that I can see) other than increasing some of the 3 region bonuses to 4. 27 starting regions is also a golden number and in 1v1 games increases the amount of starting regions per player from 8 to 9 which I prefer on a map this small. Also, in the continents the capitals are in, you don't need to worry about bonus dropping since all those continents are 4 regions. As long as N. Afar and W. Snnpr start neutrals, there's no need for any other to.

If anybody else has any suggestions, now is the time to speak up. Otherwise, this map will receive the gameplay stamp in 48-72 hours.


nolefan5311...the file is recovered and re-worked...posted as V7 with the ajdustment to neutrals.
please refresh v7.
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Re: Ethiopia: [15.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:02 pm

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Onwards and upwards cairns. Congrats.
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Re: Ethiopia: [15.1.13] V07-P5 Gameplay & Gfx

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:59 am

nolefan5311 wrote:Image

Onwards and upwards cairns. Congrats.

Thanx nolefan5311 :)
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Re: Ethiopia: [15.1.13] V07-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:06 pm

First impressions: The map colors are kinda bright for me, especially for a desert country. Some more earthy tones would be quite good for me, personally, but the rest of the community will likely have a say as well.
Question, where is the border between Sudan and South Sudan? Also I assume Kenya and South Sudan are adjacent, yes? There is a border line from the box from H Harari to W. Snnpr that oddly separates nothing and calls into question what connects to what exactly.
There is an odd blank patch near the mountains in S.B-G
The word "bonuses" in the legend minimap seems kinda redundant to me, do correct me if I'm wrong here community!
Also a question to that, are the cities within regions a part of their respective bonus? if necessary a pit of explination to that may be required.
Oh, and do the bonuses have names themselves?
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Re: Ethiopia: [15.1.13] V07-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:54 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:First impressions: The map colors are kinda bright for me, especially for a desert country. Some more earthy tones would be quite good for me, personally, but the rest of the community will likely have a say as well.

well some colours are taken from the flag, mixed with some earthier tones...or so i thought...so i have reduced opacity on them for you to hopefully an aceptable level.
Also, your statement about it being a desert country only really applies in the Samaliland regions and perhaps a bit in the north...a lot of the country is quite green in the hills where the coffee is grown...a check on google images will show u differently than u think

Question, where is the border between Sudan and South Sudan?

now inserted :P

Also I assume Kenya and South Sudan are adjacent, yes? There is a border line from the box from H Harari to W. Snnpr that oddly separates nothing and calls into question what connects to what exactly.

yes that is same border...bridge across river near lake connects that piece of land and border is horizontal line running east from Harari.

There is an odd blank patch near the mountains in S.B-G

NO, not exactly odd. it's where the border of S.B-G runs under those mountains, and the green is a inner shadow around those borders, so i am not too worried about it as the mountains create the impassable... :)


The word "bonuses" in the legend minimap seems kinda redundant to me, do correct me if I'm wrong here community!

well yes, for you and me perhaps, but looks nice on map anyway :)

Also a question to that, are the cities within regions a part of their respective bonus? if necessary a pit of explination to that may be required.

will attend to that.

Oh, and do the bonuses have names themselves?

mmm...not presently, but need to do something there, so will fix that.

Thanks for your input RB0 :)
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:33 am

Version 8.
as changes from above. :)
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby x-raider on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:22 am

I still don't think the sea needs 2 colours, just the cyan on the inside should do fine for all of it.
The building image for Dire Dawa is a bit blurry and the text explaining the abbreviations at the bottom should be lined vertically centered and evenly distributed.
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby Leehar on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:57 am

lol, saw this on the homepage and thought gameplay comments were needed, but seems it's already moved ahead.

I was just wondering what use the cities had. Thought they'd work as auto-deploys or something, otherwise they're just wasted space?
I also didn't understand why the bonuses with the cities inside them are +4 (since they essentially can only be hit from inside their bonus), while something like North-west which can be broken on all 5 of it's territories, is worth +5?
I had the same question about the +2's but I guess the neutrals provide the equality.
Also, why is 24 terr. a golden number? it gives 1v1 12 terr each?

Graphics then, even tho I don't know much about images.

It took a while to click on the fact that the other countries are playable territories, maybe make that more visible? Could they have their own bonus as well?
Also, could dd move up a bit to be fully enclosed in yellow(N.Somali)? Otherwise it looks like it borders Central Oromia?

SNNPR, could it not all be written on one line or closer together? It seems a bit disconnected right now.

And then, I remember some sort of conspiracy whereby the Ethiopians were blocking the flow of the nile with a dam, could that be incorporated into the image somewhere?

btw, Whats the star in 'O' for Ethiopia; and what are the images in the corners?
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:55 pm

Leehar wrote:lol, saw this on the homepage and thought gameplay comments were needed, but seems it's already moved ahead.

I was just wondering what use the cities had. Thought they'd work as auto-deploys or something, otherwise they're just wasted space?
I also didn't understand why the bonuses with the cities inside them are +4 (since they essentially can only be hit from inside their bonus), while something like North-west which can be broken on all 5 of it's territories, is worth +5?
I had the same question about the +2's but I guess the neutrals provide the equality.

cities...essentially they are there to make up the numbers of terrs

bonuses...these are calcualted from various factors which include number of terrs for a region, borders, number of terrs that can attack etc. please read the guides in tools and guides on bonuses calculations for more info if you're interested.

Also, why is 24 terr. a golden number? it gives 1v1 12 terr each?

24 does not give 2 x 12 terr each.
In 1v1 games the number of terrs is split 3 ways between 2 players and the game engine which is why you end up with a lot of neutrals in 1v1 games.
in this case it gives 8 terrs to the players.



Graphics then, even tho I don't know much about images.

It took a while to click on the fact that the other countries are playable territories,
even though they have army holders on them?

maybe make that more visible? Could they have their own bonus as well?

i think they are visible enough as NOT part of the Ethiopia, and no we have already worked out that they re going to be used as routes around the main country, but don't need their own bonuses.

Also, could dd move up a bit to be fully enclosed in yellow(N.Somali)? Otherwise it looks like it borders Central Oromia?

yes i can do that for you, but as you can see space is very limited there.

SNNPR, could it not all be written on one line or closer together? It seems a bit disconnected right now.

i will look at re-arranging those

And then, I remember some sort of conspiracy whereby the Ethiopians were blocking the flow of the nile with a dam, could that be incorporated into the image somewhere?

No, the gameplay is sorted...on the front page which is where the mapmaker gives a direction for the map....i want it to be kept as a simple small standard gameplay type map.

btw, Whats the star in 'O' for Ethiopia; and what are the images in the corners?

the star....i don't know. Wiki might be your friend there, i simply know that it is part of the flag and i have re-designed it that way for this map with the colours of the flag in the background behind the title.

the images in the three corners are 3 prominent buildings from those cities. you can find them on wiki if you're more interested....for me they are simply a way to enhance graphics.
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby Leehar on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:06 am

Ok, dd move up and maybe SNPR wording rearrangement.

I'm batting 2 from 8 for my critiquing :lol:
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:10 pm

Just bumping this to see what i have to do
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V08-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:27 pm

I believe that there is a issue that will create a lot of confusion. Its the bridges in whole territories across impassibles. Southern Somalia, Kenya and Sudan. I believe either stopping the rivers all together at the Ethiopian border, or at least dropping those portions of the rivers into the background at a lower opacity. Kenya is the most confusing, I had to look at a true map of Africa to figure out the both sides of the river is Kenya, thus making it adjacent to W. SNNPR.

Couple other question I have.

North and South Somalia are not adjacent, yes? Would be kinda odd if this is true, but if so, making E. Somali go off the map a little more, creating a larger separation between north and south, would make this clearer.

Again I ask about a explanation on the map for what bonuses the cities are in. And along those same lines, do the non-Ethiopian territories constitute a bonus of any kind? If not a explanation that they are part of no bonus should be necessary as well.

Also for consistency, if you name bodies of water, ie, the Blue Nile, you should name them all, or none. Just seems odd to see "Blue Nile" but not Awash River, Red Sea, or Lake T'ana.
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Re: Ethiopia: [21.1.13] V09-P5 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:03 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:I believe that there is a issue that will create a lot of confusion. Its the bridges in whole territories across impassibles. Southern Somalia, Kenya and Sudan. I believe either stopping the rivers all together at the Ethiopian border, or at least dropping those portions of the rivers into the background at a lower opacity. Kenya is the most confusing, I had to look at a true map of Africa to figure out the both sides of the river is Kenya, thus making it adjacent to W. SNNPR.

Couple other question I have.

North and South Somalia are not adjacent, yes? Would be kinda odd if this is true, but if so, making E. Somali go off the map a little more, creating a larger separation between north and south, would make this clearer.

Again I ask about a explanation on the map for what bonuses the cities are in. And along those same lines, do the non-Ethiopian territories constitute a bonus of any kind? If not a explanation that they are part of no bonus should be necessary as well.

Also for consistency, if you name bodies of water, ie, the Blue Nile, you should name them all, or none. Just seems odd to see "Blue Nile" but not Awash River, Red Sea, or Lake T'ana.


All that is done RB0.

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Re: Ethiopia: [16.2.13] V09-P6 Gfx Discussion

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:32 pm

While I see that you have put a disclaimer in the legend that DD doesn't border Central Oromai, I believe it will absolutely cause confusion. Having a territory touching a border, but not actually border it? Your best bet is going to be rearranging stuff in there so DD is completely within N. Somali. Having the territory name, or even the army circle run over a little isn't going to cause the confusion having the little DD box on the border will.
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Re: Ethiopia: [16.2.13] V09-P6 Gfx Discussion

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:24 pm

I'm going to have to agree with RB0, can you have it the same as Harari? I believe you have the room there to do it.
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Re: Ethiopia: [16.2.13] V09-P6 Gfx Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:34 pm

OK, give me a few days to change it...uni on.
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Re: Ethiopia: [16.2.13] V09-P6 Gfx Discussion

Postby brhiba on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:57 pm

Here are my graphic notes - all constructive, take or leave:

  • Saw the star in the 'O' mentioned... I like it. The blue seems too strong for the overall pallette though.
  • Nice title font... BUT the 'E' is hard to read because of where the "arms" fall against the tri-color background. You could make the middle tier of the background slightly wider, or a nudge up or down should fix - I know it's vert centered, but the clash is no good.
  • "Bonuses" is similarly hard to read... maybe try all caps?
  • The patterned border on the sides has the right feel, but it's too loud... I'd suggest dimming it by 20%-40%.
  • The Lion of Judah in the corners is a nice touch, and it's the perfect symbol. But the small image you have is hard to "read" as such. Maybe go for a version that's more stylized and easier to recognize at that size.
  • The font for the surrounding territories is too light. I know they're not part of Ethiopia, but they are part of the game map, so they should be more immediately visible.
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