[Abandoned] Escape [19/5] Pages 1/9

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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:10 am

Hmmm, I've got to run and take care of some stuff here pretty soon, but I'll be giving this some thought and I'll post back here later if I can think of a good way to word some of that.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Thanks, been thinking about it and this might work. One thing to think about though is I want one more icon. Not a gun but something that would help with an outbreak like this and something you might find in this environment.
Here is a list of things that might work...
    chainsaw
    axe
    potted plant (used as an anti viral)
    snipers rifle (not sure if this would work but if this is chosen with the conditional borders it might allow any territ have a border with another if held. Say you are in a hallway, holding the snipers rifle would allow you to bombard any other hallway territ).
    knife
    sword
    Molotov cocktail
    survivor
Added the secret passage.
finished of the furniture
new look legend
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Re: Escape [1/9] V5 P1/2

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:57 pm

Well, honestly I don't think I can add anything useful as far as how to word or organize the legend information. You got it all pretty good with this last update.

Having the Admin office/Security office/Scientist office bonuses organized into boxes goes a long way toward clearing up the confusion there. It makes it pretty obvious how the bonuses work. Only thing I see that could maybe use some clarification is the Head of security office with Security +2. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Security 1 and Security 2 terits, but perhaps spelling that out would be better? I'm not sure on that, maybe most people would understand, but there are bound to be a few people out there who wouldn't understand it right off the bat. That one is pretty subjective, so you can take it or leave it, no biggie.

One question about those bonuses. Are they cumulative? If you hold the Head Scientist office and, say, the Test subjects holding cell for a +2, and then take the Test area 2 for a +3, do you end up getting +5, or does it only give you whatever the highest one you hold?

I like the way the gun/bullet bonus info is organized now. It's fairly obvious how it works now.

You've got a few minor typos in the legend, not important right now, but figured I'd point them out so you can fix them. Quaters should be quarters (unless you're from Boston), Conferance should be Conference, and I think that is it. That's all I noticed.



As for another weapon/useful item...I quite like the sniper rifle idea and having it able to bombard, etc. However, I also am not sure that it work out. Assuming it's placed in a room (or where ever, that part isn't that important), how would you know which terits it allows you to bombard from? Would it be any terit you hold that has sight of 2 or more touching terits? Or what? I mean, I love the idea, but I feel like it would probably be pretty hard to spell out how it works, what it can do, and actually have that in place on the map. Plus, it might just make it too easy.

I don't know. If you can figure out a way to successfully implement it and explain it in the legend, then I say go for it. It would add a lot to the map, and goes with the theme wonderfully. One issue may be with xml. I don't know all that much about it, but I figure it might be hard to make a territory only able to attack one territory away unless you hold a certain other territory, in which case that first territory can now bombard so many territories away. But you would know better than me if that is possible within the current xml.

If you can't get that to work, then really any of the others would probably work. In keeping with the theme of a laboratory, probably either an axe (fire axes), potted plant or Molotov Cocktail (there are bound to be all sorts of chemicals around that could be used to make one of those, assuming the absence of alcohol) would be the best fit, most realistic. I can't imagine a sword just laying around a laboratory. Well, then again, rocket launchers aren't common sights either, I suppose, so I guess really any of them would work. :lol:

But it would be cool to have something that you could do something cool with, like you're thinking about doing with the sniper rifle. Not just another weapon for another bonus, you've got plenty of bonuses, but something that allows you to do something really cool and interesting not possible otherwise. Like if you have the Molotov Cocktail, you could use it in the hallways to clear out the infected, thus eliminating the decay each round, or something else like that. That probably isn't possible with the xml, but you get my drift.

I like where this is headed. Keep it up!
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Re: Escape [1/9] V4 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:08 am

sannemanrobinson wrote:What is the space between Test Area 1 and Lab 2? If it is not a territory then the doors can be more close together.

Sorry, missed this last time around. The space was going to be a territ (decontamination chamber) but found it too small for it when scaled down for the small. So yes it did start out as a territ.

The reason why I left it as it is is because of the decom, if I could not have it, wanted to leave it in anyway for story reasons. The reason why the doors will not go closer together is that I do not need at a later stage, players complaining that they missed the second door (mainly colour blind people). While the door colours will be made friendly for them, having two close together, might make them blend in more.
tkr4lf wrote:Well, honestly I don't think I can add anything useful as far as how to word or organize the legend information. You got it all pretty good with this last update.

Thanks.

Having the Admin office/Security office/Scientist office bonuses organized into boxes goes a long way toward clearing up the confusion there. It makes it pretty obvious how the bonuses work. Only thing I see that could maybe use some clarification is the Head of security office with Security +2. I'm pretty sure you're talking about Security 1 and Security 2 terits, but perhaps spelling that out would be better? I'm not sure on that, maybe most people would understand, but there are bound to be a few people out there who wouldn't understand it right off the bat. That one is pretty subjective, so you can take it or leave it, no biggie.

Will get it clarified.

One question about those bonuses. Are they cumulative? If you hold the Head Scientist office and, say, the Test subjects holding cell for a +2, and then take the Test area 2 for a +3, do you end up getting +5, or does it only give you whatever the highest one you hold?

You get all bonuses stated. These are the big ones, so those three areas need to be open while defensible.

I like the way the gun/bullet bonus info is organized now. It's fairly obvious how it works now.

Thanks.
You've got a few minor typos in the legend, not important right now, but figured I'd point them out so you can fix them. Quaters should be quarters (unless you're from Boston), Conferance should be Conference, and I think that is it. That's all I noticed.

Spelling has never been my strong suit. Will fix those.

As for another weapon/useful item...I quite like the sniper rifle idea and having it able to bombard, etc. However, I also am not sure that it work out. Assuming it's placed in a room (or where ever, that part isn't that important), how would you know which terits it allows you to bombard from? Would it be any terit you hold that has sight of 2 or more touching terits? Or what? I mean, I love the idea, but I feel like it would probably be pretty hard to spell out how it works, what it can do, and actually have that in place on the map. Plus, it might just make it too easy.

I don't know. If you can figure out a way to successfully implement it and explain it in the legend, then I say go for it. It would add a lot to the map, and goes with the theme wonderfully. One issue may be with xml. I don't know all that much about it, but I figure it might be hard to make a territory only able to attack one territory away unless you hold a certain other territory, in which case that first territory can now bombard so many territories away. But you would know better than me if that is possible within the current xml.

If you can't get that to work, then really any of the others would probably work. In keeping with the theme of a laboratory, probably either an axe (fire axes), potted plant or Molotov Cocktail (there are bound to be all sorts of chemicals around that could be used to make one of those, assuming the absence of alcohol) would be the best fit, most realistic. I can't imagine a sword just laying around a laboratory. Well, then again, rocket launchers aren't common sights either, I suppose, so I guess really any of them would work. :lol:

But it would be cool to have something that you could do something cool with, like you're thinking about doing with the sniper rifle. Not just another weapon for another bonus, you've got plenty of bonuses, but something that allows you to do something really cool and interesting not possible otherwise. Like if you have the Molotov Cocktail, you could use it in the hallways to clear out the infected, thus eliminating the decay each round, or something else like that. That probably isn't possible with the xml, but you get my drift.

I like where this is headed. Keep it up!

Went with the molotov, it has a bombard range of three.

As for the snipers rifle..... dropped it, for some reason, putting the words on for it to shoot round corners/ through walls made no sense.

But I am adding another icon. ;) Will post later today the new map.
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Re: Escape [1/9] V5 P1/2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:23 am

Sorted spelling.
Added new weapons.
Finished of bonuses (These will need tidying up though).
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:51 am

Cool, I like it.

Legend looks good, all nicely organized and readable.

Can the molotov cocktail bombard through doors? Like in Hallway 13, can it bombard Hallway 19 and Hallway 18, since they're 2-3 terits away? Would it depend on if you hold the green key card? If it can't go through doors at all, then that should probably be explained as well in the legend, to avoid confusion.

This is just my opinion, but it seems like +1 for every 2 terits might be a bit much. There are already bonuses galore on the map, seems like way too many troops people may be getting. 73 starting terits divided by 8 gives each player 6 terits, so 3 to start off with, which is good. But say it's a 4 player game, that's 15 terits, so 7 troops to start out with. Now I know that starting positions, etc. will all be relatively separated, but it seems like with a random distribution of territories, the first player to go would have ample opportunity to knock at least one opponent down by enough terits to take away at least 1 or 2 troops. May not be a huge deal, considering all the bonuses available, but just something to think about. Would probably be more important in team play than in standard play.


Everything else looks great. If it was up to me, you'd have your draft stamp and move on to the workshop!
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:17 am

Will word Molotov to say it can bomb through doors and also need the key card to do it as you pointed out. Need more room for it so will swap knife and molotov around.

As for the +1 for every two territs, here is the breakdown for each game type. Starting positions in first post in the game play notes spoiler.
31 starting territs.
All will be programmed starting positions with a max of 15 given out. This means that...
2 player games - 15 territs each 7 starting troops
3 player games - 10 territs each 5 ST
4 player games - 7 territs each
5 player games - 6 territs each
6 player games - 5 territs each
7 player games - 4 territs each
8 player games - 3 territs each
So, even in a two player game, you get to start with 7 deployable troops (seems high) but when you consider he loses 15 troops to the decays, he only gains half of what he loses. So deploy will become a major factor. I have also indicated that a minimum of 5 will be given but need to put this on the map itself (next draft).
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:29 am

koontz1973 wrote:As for the +1 for every two territs, here is the breakdown for each game type. Starting positions in first post in the game play notes spoiler.
31 starting territs.
All will be programmed starting positions with a max of 15 given out. This means that...
2 player games - 15 territs each 7 starting troops
3 player games - 10 territs each 5 ST
4 player games - 7 territs each
5 player games - 6 territs each
6 player games - 5 territs each
7 player games - 4 territs each
8 player games - 3 territs each
So, even in a two player game, you get to start with 7 deployable troops (seems high) but when you consider he loses 15 troops to the decays, he only gains half of what he loses. So deploy will become a major factor. I have also indicated that a minimum of 5 will be given but need to put this on the map itself (next draft).

Ah, ok. I was going off of the information that says 73 randomly distributed terits. Good to know that there will be less terits each player starts off with. Plus, with the decay that you pointed out, that doesn't seem to high now.

A minimum of 5 seems good. I didn't take into consideration the decay that every terit receives.

Right on. It looks like I'm out of input to give for this one, at least until you move on to other things.

Looking forward to eventually playing this one.
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:03 pm

This should clear any issues about Molotov and bonuses up. As well as clearing up the territ bonus.
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:58 pm

Looks good.


Wow, looking at those Molotovs, those are going to be quite powerful. That's neither a good or bad thing, just an observation.

For instance, by holding Hallway 3 and Hallway 5, you can bombard every terit in the Admin/Security wing of the map, assuming you have the proper key cards as well. Good thing there is a decay on them. ;)
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby tkr4lf on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:21 am

So, what's left for this to get the draft stamp and move on?

Somebody else in blue has to do it for you probably, yes?
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:29 am

tkr4lf wrote:So, what's left for this to get the draft stamp and move on?

Somebody else in blue has to do it for you probably, yes?

Yes, but no need for it to hurry. Can and will carry on working on it here for now.

Right now, I am going over the legend to get it better organised.

But whilst we wait for it, go around the drafting room and see what else takes your fancy. Even if nothing does, try to leave some info for the other map makers like you have done for me.
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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:19 am

Changing 'Bullets' to 'Ammunition' (or Ammo) probably fits a little better, since you have pretty vastly different weapons.

I look forward to your re-organization of the legend, and I'll comment more on gameplay after that to see if I can get a better sense of everything at that time.


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Re: Escape [2/9] V6 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:44 pm

Lowered the bombard of the Molotov to 2 territs. Les powerful but still powerful enough.
Changed the wording according to Andy. This does make sense.
Made text larger in the legend for the rules. No room for the bonuses to be larger just yet but will find a way for that to happen. Not liking the way the bonuses are placed now either as the 3 admin/security/head scientist looks weird. Must get that cleared up. This I feel has gone 1 step forward, two back. Will have to do a lot more when the GP stamp is closer and the rules are more set into stone. Not sure how the mods will take to all of the bonuses and decays. ;)
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Re: Escape [4/9] V7 P1/3

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:35 pm

Looking at the legend, perhaps grouping items into categories, and differentiating those categories from another (by boxes or something) might help a user's cognition of everything. You have sort of done this already, but pushing it more is worth it.

For instance, you essentially have a Movement category: Keycard stuff in the upper right legend, "Closets connect," and Molotov Cocktails are in essence a type movement (bombarding), though that is a more of a loose interpretation, but since you talk about doors and keycards, it possibly fits.

Also there is a General Bonus category: this is your list bonus zones (the red numbers are terrible to read, as does the red text at the top) and Antidote.

Then there is the Aggregate Bonus category: this is where gaining a bonus requires multiple elements (guns + ammo; Admin office + etc; Security office + etc; Scientist office + etc)

Moreover, there is also a Negative Bonus category: Virus carrier swarm, hallways decay / all rooms decay.

And finally the winning / losing condition should be off on its own, since it is important!

===========

Grouping things together a little more might help the flow of everything. Maps like the Orient Express 1883 orThyseneal sort of have an example of this in action.

Best of luck with my ramblings.


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Re: Escape [4/9] V7 P1/3

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:04 pm

I believe this can be moved on up!!
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Re: Escape [4/9] V7 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:00 am

Thanks isaiah.

GP mods. Here is my thinking for this one so please bear with me when you get round and have a look at it.

Conditional borders. Have I got this right and can there be more than one key for each of the doors? Additionally, can a key open more than one door?

Decays, this seems to fit the overall scheme of things as any virus outbreak would attack you slowly and not be confined to any particular area. Right now, it is -1 for all rooms and -2 for all corridors. Does my wording as it stands now work?

Territory bonus. +1 for every 2 with a minimum of 5. Very high I know but with the huge reductions because of the decays, even 1v1 games, no one will recover what they lose in the first rounds and may never recover. This, I hope will get players think of there initial deployment. As all starting territs will be programmed in, I will do it as a 3 so manual games do not get massive amounts of troops for one area.

Bonuses. Lots and lots. As there are so many bonuses to be had and they grow, these need to be kept very low. +1 or +2 with the odd one being over that.
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Re: Escape [4/9] V7 P1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:03 am

Legend work only.
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Re: Escape [6/9] V8 P1/4

Postby thehippo8 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:36 am

This makes me smile every time I look at it! Nice work and congrats on the stamp.

Get their first (story at the top) ... should be get there first.

Admin legend - secretaries has a capitalised first letter but managers does not ... and hallways is also not capitalised (box upper right to the admin box).

Have a think about the legend for the key cards ... maybe simplify the wording?

Molotov cocktail ... Can bombard through doors. Key card is required. ... maybe one sentence ... Can bombard through doors with correct key card. ... ?

On the map .. . Test subjects holding cell ... Maybe either ... Test subject holding cell ... or ... Test subject's holding cell ... or ... Test subjects' holding cell ... depending on whether it is a holding cell where you hold test subjects or a holding cell that belongs to a single test subject or one that belongs to lots of them. Easiest is just drop the "s" on subjects!

Administrators office ... either Administrator's office or Administrators' Office ... depending on whether its there for one or many.

Hope that helps!
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Re: Escape [6/9] V8 P1/4

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:56 am

thehippo8 wrote:This makes me smile every time I look at it! Nice work and congrats on the stamp.

Get their first (story at the top) ... should be get there first.

Admin legend - secretaries has a capitalised first letter but managers does not ... and hallways is also not capitalised (box upper right to the admin box).

Have a think about the legend for the key cards ... maybe simplify the wording?

Molotov cocktail ... Can bombard through doors. Key card is required. ... maybe one sentence ... Can bombard through doors with correct key card. ... ?

On the map .. . Test subjects holding cell ... Maybe either ... Test subject holding cell ... or ... Test subject's holding cell ... or ... Test subjects' holding cell ... depending on whether it is a holding cell where you hold test subjects or a holding cell that belongs to a single test subject or one that belongs to lots of them. Easiest is just drop the "s" on subjects!

Administrators office ... either Administrator's office or Administrators' Office ... depending on whether its there for one or many.

Hope that helps!

All fixed and done. Apart from the key card wording. It may be slightly long but it has to be very clear. Till conditional borders become more common and a term is worked out for it like decay and killer, it needs to be. But if anyone comes up with something better, on it will go.

Moved antodote from lab 2 to closet 1 so it does not give an easy bonus for those doors for the win. Also, it will give incentive to players to go through the closets.
Added the guns names to the legend. Not needed but a fun thing to have. Might not be able to fit it on the small map though.
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Re: Escape [8/9] V9 P1/4

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:01 pm

So, anything new with this, Koontz?

The legend looks great now. It's all organized nicely. Putting everything on the right into boxes worked well. The outer glow you added to the red text helped a lot on the readability issue.

I honestly don't see much else you can do as far as graphics go. I think it looks great.
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Re: Escape [8/9] V9 P1/4

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:27 pm

At the moment there is nothing new. I think the legend looks OK also and I think the map itself has enough on it. Placement of icons though needs to be double checked then I can go ahead and set about making sure things work OK. Right now, the green doors do not work because of the colour. My laptop shows them up as hard to see whilst on my PC, they look fine. Will get that sorted soon but I think this is going to be in game play for quite a while so the bosses can make sure it should work as it should.
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Re: Escape [8/9] V9 P1/4

Postby thehippo8 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:30 pm

lounge 3 has a lower case L. And if that's all I can criticise then woohoo!

I think this map is epic, can't wait to play it. You can count me in any Beta testing tourney's you wanna set up!
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Re: Escape [8/9] V9 P1/4

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:32 pm

Hmm, the green doors look fine on my laptop. I guess it's different for everybody, though.

What about CB considerations? Do the red/blue/green doors blend too much? I guess the main area that would be a problem if so would be Lab 2 to Test Area 1.


One other thing to consider is the knives. Why the autodeploy for them? I mean, it doesn't seem like a knife would be all that helpful against zombies, so why the extremely useful autodeploy? I guess gameplay wise, it doesn't really matter that it's a knife and not, say, a flamethrower or something else, but thematically, it seems a little strange. An autodeploy is a good idea, I think. Just perhaps not on a knife. Maybe something else? Just some food for thought.
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Re: Escape [8/9] V9 P1/4

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:41 pm

Cb tests on the doors are fine.

About the knives, with the decay, and the auto deploy, they just cancel themselves out apart from the one in the hallway which decays at -2 so with the knife -1. Sort of giving a sense of security whilst not in actuality.

Not sure if you have played the Resident Evil games (and if you haven't guessed, this map is based around them), but knives are the only weapon given in each game at the start. Flame throwers seem to much like molotovs but if you want a different one, then have a think on what and let me know.

Will get that "l" changed today with the doors.
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