[Vacation valid until July 2014] Alamo

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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg1

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:02 am

It's late here, so I'm going to wait to comment in depth until tomorrow.

For now, I will say that you should post the latest update at the end of your thread too, preferably in the post that you're asking feedback for, that way it's easier to look at the map and read the questions all on the same page, instead of having to jump back and forth from this post to the first post. Also, you should update the thread title to include which page the current map is on, in addition to page 1 (which it should always be on).
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg1

Postby generalhead on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:12 am

Ah, good point, ty

"Boss Man" or tg
Can you tell me if this game play is possible and if you think that it is worded correctly. ty
Also do you think I should add roads. I am having trouble deciding where to put them. I don't think it would add anything to game play but I do think it will advance the look of the map. hmmm. I will keep staring and see if I can come up with something
do you think I should add trees or greenery, or do you think it is cluttered enough. I don't think that the Alamo was real woodsy.
do my commanders look realistic?
Last what issues do you see that I should work on next?
Ty, you guys are great!

I need to make the ch2 territory bigger
Tr3 is missing a dot
I need to fix an edge line on the west river
I need to check the the line around morales, it looks lighter
commander in the key is mis-spelled with two c's
i need to change the word army in the key to territories

Game play questions
I know that Bowie and Santa Anna receiving +2 deployment should start out as neutrals, but would all of the commanders start as neutrals?
Would the cannons also start as neutrals?

For game play I was trying to make it so you didn't get a bonus until you held one commander and one territory in his region. Once you hold the commander for every territory in the bonus after you receive a plus one. so if you hold one commander and two in that bonus region you would receive plus two. if you held two commander and one in each region you would receive a plus two. I would think that the commanders would all have to start as neutral due to if they didn't the bonus count would be way too high.
Newest verstion Alamol Draft:
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:40 pm

Looking better.

As far as roads, I don't think adding them in would be necessary. But since it's most likely going to be a purely aesthetic addition, it doesn't matter either way. Do them if you want to. I don't think it would clutter it too much, but of course, we'd have to see it to know for sure. Either way, up to you.

I don't think it needs trees either. I think the Alamo walls and the river is enough for impassables. Plus, you're right, it was pretty open as far as I know, not many woods and the like.

The commanders look okay. You may need to replace them or polish them later, I don't know.

Some thoughts on the commanders:
It seems odd that there are only 5 Mexican commanders but 6 Texian commanders. The Mexican force was something like 2-3 thousand troops, while the Texians had something like 300ish troops. I understand the reasoning for having all the commanders, since it's part of your bonus structure, but maybe some other way can be used to keep the bonus structure but still get rid of all but maybe Crockett, Bowie and Austin. And they should be in the fort, not on the outside. It wouldn't make sense to try to defend the fort from outside of it. Maybe you can expand the Alamo just a little bit, maybe by making the surrounding areas (Wharton, Austin, Bowie, Dickenson) slightly smaller. Then there could be room to have 3 different sections that would fit a commander each. Or something. But it does seem odd that such a larger force has 1 less commander than the Texians.

As for the auto-deploy situation, I would think all the commanders should have an auto-deploy. Making Santa Anna and one of the Texian commanders as a +2 though to signify that they were the leaders makes sense as well though. I would lean toward making the +2 Texian commander Austin instead of Bowie. While they shared command of the fort, Bowie soon relinquished control to Austin since he was confined to bed because of his illness.



The cannons...I would get rid of the cannon in Duque's area and put it in Morales' area. I would also take one from Santa Anna's area and add it and maybe even an extra one to Cos' area, since the cannons were placed to the South, East and Southeast if I remember correctly. It didn't mention anything about cannons to the north. Should probably also add a cannon in the Alamo on the south wall, since there were some located there.

As for graphics...just keep working on them. The borders still need work. The walls still need to be corrected, with palisade in the Northeast/east and south central areas.

Overall, nice improvements. Still lots of work to do, but it's getting there.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:28 pm

It will be done!
I had already thought about making the Alamo bigger.
you are right on the too many Texan commanders
What do you think about a win scenario hold all Mexican commanders for one round to win
Some of the walls are wooden post ( the north east wall. east wall and central southern wall. It does look a lot like the stone though, I might have to change that.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:43 pm

generalhead wrote:What do you think about a win scenario hold all Mexican commanders for one round to win

I tend to like win conditions, so I'm biased, but I think it's a good idea. However, it should incorporate part of the Alamo, too. Just holding all Mexican commanders shouldn't be enough, they should have to take an (or a couple) important parts of the fort, too.

It could be cool to have 2 different win conditions, one for the Mexicans, and one for the Texians. Something like for the Mexicans, hold all Mexican commanders and 2 different strategic parts of the Alamo, for the Texians, hold the entire Alamo and Santa Anna. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there so you can think on it and come up with something cool.


generalhead wrote:Some of the walls are wooden post ( the north east wall. east wall and central southern wall. It does look a lot like the stone though, I might have to change that.

Ah, I didn't even notice them. Yeah, they're too similar. Try to get them looking like actual palisade, if possible. I'm not all that great with graphics, so I can't help with that part. Maybe Koontz knows a way, or maybe you can find a royalty-free image of them online somewhere that you can use.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:11 pm

tk you are awesome. I love the win conditions that you described.
I will check around for some more images for the palisades.
I don't know who is in charge on medals, but I would like to request that we are co-mapmakers on this and that we both get a medal if that is ok with you and whomever is in charge of the medals. You are a big a part of making this map as I am. I don't know if koonts can answer this. If you agree I will put your name in as the map maker also. And also isntall it on the map too next to made by. I know there can be two map makers per map, but I don't know the conditions.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:14 pm

That's not necessary. I just really like the idea and figure if I want to see it get made, then I should help out however I can.

If you're really wanting to do it, I guess I don't have any objections to it. But I would check on things first to see that it's ok, since I'm not really contributing anything towards graphics, just ideas.

If you want though, I could take a look and see if I can get your borders a bit clearer. That's one of the few areas that I can make look ok. I have natty's tutorial down fairly well, I just never went any further with learning GIMP and haven't had the patience to stick it out and learn it, so I'm useless with anything more advanced than the basics. PM me if you're interested, and I'll tell you how to get your .xcf file to me so I can look at it and see what I can do.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:22 pm

You definitely have a long way to go, but stay with it and this will come together nicely. I like where tk is going, and it's nice to have people devote so much time to helping others, =D>. Keep in mind you will also need someone to help put your xml together, unless you are planning to do that yourself. If you need someone that 2nd medal will be a good incentive.

I would be careful this doesn't turn into a replica of Rorke's Drift though. It reminds me a lot of that map with the layout (nothing you can do about that), and potential win conditions, etc. For me I would like less of a cartoonish look and more of a historic map. Possibly using the background koontz posted earlier you could put together something that had a old-time look and feel, and was built more off a realistic battle map. Easier said than done I know, but your skills will come together quicker than you can imagine. Just stick with it, and keep asking questions.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:48 pm

Shopping list time.
Wait till you have your next daft up before you look but going OK so far. Just do not over do it and get map fatigue. If you need a days rest, take it. Remember, a month can go by without a draft.
show


EDIT: As for the comment about this turning into another Rorke's Drift, do not worry about that as it is a good map. But it took around 7 months to get it into play. Keep this up and you should get to play this next year. :lol:
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:42 pm

:lol: I love you koontz. I knew this would not be a short one hour trip. I am packed to head around the world.
and again with the info, you are amazing! :D
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:49 pm

seamus76, did you mean something like one of these? I think I like the top one the best, but I don't know where my flags went I will have to put them back in
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Click image to enlarge.
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Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:59 pm

=D> , nicely done. I can see a huge difference in your skills already, just being able to pull those images together and posting them so quickly. If you want a laugh check out the first draft of my Tribal War - Florida map in the Viewing Gallery. I actually thought it would be playable at that point, but after 15 months the foundry did it's work turning the map into something worthy of the site.

Personally I like the last one, with the light, muted tones. It gives me more of an old-time western feel when I look at it.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:15 am

Nice job.

I like the first and the last one best.

Just need to get those commanders sorted out now so we can work on gameplay a bit more.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:27 am

10-4 Fellas, Ty
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby Wingnut 16ga on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:17 am

Impressive generalhead....I like the thought of having two win conditions. Maybe I missed it but did you decide not to have the auto deploy?....it's not shown in the latest maps that you posted
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:31 am

Wingnut 16ga wrote:Impressive generalhead....I like the thought of having two win conditions. Maybe I missed it but did you decide not to have the auto deploy?....it's not shown in the latest maps that you posted

It's at the top-right.
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Re: Alamo map [22/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:21 pm

Ty wing, I still have a lot of adjustment. I probably won't post a new map for a couple of days
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg3

Postby generalhead on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:23 pm

Here is my newest update, It is better but I am sure it still needs a lot of work. If you could help point those out as most of you have a finer eye for map details due to I am new at this. Thank you in advance.
Click image to enlarge.
image

  1. I will go back and see if I have covered all of the details already given
  2. I have a bridge that needs to be adjusted
  3. the water borders need work
  4. Some of my palisades need blending
  5. Davey Crocketts name needs moved up
  6. Remove white mark below Santa Anna
  7. turn Mo1 cannon to the right
  8. see about a back drop for the bottom key
  9. blue bleeding into bottom key

questions
Do the bridge connections look o.k.?
Is everything to scale?
Do the Alamo walls look o.k.?
Is my bonus layout even for game play?
Are the keys Legible and understandable?
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby Seamus76 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:45 pm

You're moving in the right direction, and your skills are getting better, but like you said there is still a lot to be done.

The "men" look better, but there is some inconsistency with them, from a uniform perspective. Morales, Duque, Romero all look different. It might be better to use the same guy, but flip and rotate, etc. to make the differences.

I think the legend flags/backgrounds need to be a little lighter and more in the background, possibly lighten the opacity. I also think you can find a good old-time font that fits a little better, and compliments the "Remember the Alamo" text.

Possibly think about lightening the territory borders. It's a little chaotic to my eyes with all of the lines. Good use of the Path Tool it looks like, but keep all of places they touch nice and tight. ex. where DC3, DC4, and Crocket meet.

It took me a little while to figure out where the Chapel, Saloon, and Covent Yard were. You need to explain that better, poss. change the legend to include something like Chapel (CH) +1, Saloon (SA) +1, etc. Along those lines it's not really obvious who the generals are, so you'll need to work on that.

For me, as for your questions, just keep working on them all. There is a lot you can do with this map. Keep up the hard work.
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby generalhead on Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:28 pm

I went through all of the western fonts at dafont and these are the best ones in the western section, I will keep looking though.
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:23 am

Top font is best but it may not look good small.
Which cannon hit which target? Or do they all hit everything?
Figures, shrink them to half the size.
The jpegs for the walls are not good.
Go here (http://www.cgtextures.com/) and find wood planks, use them instead by shrinking to the right size.
The same can be done for an underlying texture.

Like seamus said, you are coming along and I am happy that you are trying new things. That is the only way to learn.
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby generalhead on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:13 am

Do these walls look good or do I need a more of an overview look on the wood. The only problem with that is you lose the fee of the palisades.
Click image to enlarge.
image

Santa Anna is fuzzy, All the people still need re-sized better
The impassable legend needs to be changed if the walls are good.
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby tkr4lf on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:41 am

Coming along nicely.

Walls still need work though. I'm not a big fan of the regular walls you have now. I like previous versions of those better. Also, I like the version before this last one's palisade walls better than these you have now. But you still need some better ones than even those.

I don't know if this is just me, but I feel like the walls should all be touching. It's kind of weird having all the breaks in the walls. I understand what you're going for, having the gaps be entrances to the forts, but possibly you could make some gates instead? And have ladders on the outside of the walls in select areas that the Mexicans could use to gain access to the fort? The only place where there should be a gap is the small breach in the northern wall, basically in the middle of Bowie and B01.

Also, I still think Romero needs a cannon, too. That would have the added benefit of giving the Mexicans at least one more cannon than the Texians, to reflect there superior force.

Oh, and as for the fonts, I personally like the second and the third ones better.

I'll post some more feedback later on. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:59 am

Walls still need a lot of work doing to them but do not worry. tk is right, the walls need to be touching but this leads to the problem of how to get through them so you have to have the breaks in them. Cannons need to be sorted out some more. Again shrink them down and sort out the targets better. They looked rushed. Do not rush anything, I will just go back and get you to do it again. :P

show: wall tutorial
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Re: Alamo map [27/10] Pg4

Postby generalhead on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:42 am

Yes "Boss Man", Ty tk. Good stuff Good stuff. I agree with every thing. In my original version I did have the walls enclosed and it looked a lot better, but when I expanded it posed a problem. I like the ladder Idea, I will have to see what I can do with that. I did have a cannon in Romero but deleted it. I agree putting it back would show the Mexican army superiority. The walls I will keep working on. Study, Study, Study. Thanks again gentlemen.
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