[Vacation valid until July 2014] Alamo

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Re: Alamo map [5/11] Pg5

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:46 pm

No, I haven't. I know nothing about xml so I cannot do it. GeneralHead wanted to put me on since I contributed with ideas.

I told him it wasn't necessary and that he would need somebody to do the xml, but he wanted to do it anyway. I'm not really quite sure why I'm on there when others have helped just as much, but there you have it.
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Re: Alamo map [5/11] Pg5

Postby generalhead on Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:34 pm

tkr4lf has been put on the map do to game play development. . I mainly have worked on graphics and Tk came up with most of the game play. He has helped make this map what it is. Koontz deserved just as much credit because of his involvement. I know Koontz has created his own maps and will be creating more. I wanted to give Tk the opportunity to get his name on a map due to his development on this map plus his input on other maps in the foundry. Koontz explained to me that TK might not be able to receive a medal for just game play development. I will be attempting the coding of the map myself. i have read through the xml tutorials and feel comfortable attempting the task. I have taken a programming class when I was in high school and hope this will aid me in the xml. Should I start coding now or wait until further approval. Thanks for your input
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Re: Alamo map [5/11] Pg5

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:04 am

GH, leave the xml alone for now. You have a long long way to go. Sorry, got tied up yesterday (literally). ;)

Will get your look over done today.
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Re: Alamo map [5/11] Pg5

Postby generalhead on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:41 pm

I added some shadowing
Click image to enlarge.
image

I might try a shadow on the people, but if I do it will be tomorrow or the next day.
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Re: Alamo map [5/11] Pg5

Postby generalhead on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:09 pm

tkr4lf wrote:Wow, this has really progressed quite a bit since I last saw it...Very nice.

Thanks tk
tkr4lf wrote:The walls are much clearer now, they look good.

Thanks to the "Boss Man"
tkr4lf wrote:Did you decide to scrap the palisade idea? If so, I understand why, they will be hard to make look good. I think it works either way, it doesn't have to be 100% historically accurate.

the palisades are still there, they are the wall with out the concrete look to them.
tkr4lf wrote:I like the addition of the ladders. It would make sense for them to be 1-way attacks into the Alamo, I would think. If you agree, this would need to be indicated on the map somewhere.

That is a really cool idea, my only concern would be for game play if that would isolate that side of the board to much and give some one an easy bonus. What does every one think on this?
tkr4lf wrote:The map is nice and clear, the gameplay is clear, all in all, everything looks much, much better than it did when I saw this last week. Sorry it took so long for me to respond, I've been busy and not on CC as much lately. But I will comment some more when you make another update. Keep up the good work!

ty, tk. We all have our own personal lives. Wives, kids, work, rest that can be more important than CC. I would never blame any one for slowing their play or taking a break, as long as they don't leave all together. Then I would be upset!Imagejust kidding.Image
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:20 pm

I like the little shadows. Looking good.

- You need to make the targets for the cannons larger, and change some of the colors so they are more differentiated.
- The abbreviation for Saloon needs an L in the legend.
- Color is misspelled in the legend, and Bombards should be capitalized.
- Covent Yard in the legend should be Convent Yard.
- This is prob more for the next round, but I'm not a fan of the bridges. They don't look like what I would expect a bridge to look like.
- I also still think the tert borders are a little too chaotic and all over the place. It's a good use of paths, but I'm not sure you need them to be so curvy. Especially within the alamo I would rather it be more square-ish, or "room-ish"

Also, sorry if it has been discussed, but what's the deal with the saloon? Why is it -1?
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby generalhead on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:40 pm

Seamus76 wrote:I like the little shadows. Looking good.

Ty
Seamus76 wrote:- You need to make the targets for the cannons larger, and change some of the colors so they are more differentiated.

I had them bigger in previous maps, but they didn't look as clean big. I will see what others say about the size and try a few different things. I agree about the colors. I need to change some of them.
Seamus76 wrote:- The abbreviation for Saloon needs an L in the legend.

Ya, in previous maps I had it as Sal. I lost an l some where, I will have to put it back in
Seamus76 wrote:- Color is misspelled in the legend, and Bombards should be capitalized.

10-4 ty
Seamus76 wrote:- Covent Yard in the legend should be Convent Yard.

10-4 ty
Seamus76 wrote:- This is prob more for the next round, but I'm not a fan of the bridges. They don't look like what I would expect a bridge to look like.

I tried some older looking log bridges, but with the size the logs looked horrible. I will keep searching to see what I can find.
Seamus76 wrote:- I also still think the tert borders are a little too chaotic and all over the place. It's a good use of paths, but I'm not sure you need them to be so curvy. Especially within the alamo I would rather it be more square-ish, or "room-ish"

I don't have a preference on this. I will see what some other people say on this.
Seamus76 wrote:Also, sorry if it has been discussed, but what's the deal with the saloon? Why is it -1?

It has not been discussed. In the John Wayne movie the Alamo the soldiers would get drunk and get into fights in the saloon. So I figured if you had
armies in the saloon they would be getting drunk and fighting amongst themselves. If others feel that this should not be though I don't feel that strongly about it to not change it.
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:59 pm

I can definitely help you with the targets. Just let me know if something like Sa6 would work for you and I can help you out. Also anything else I can help with would be my pleasure.

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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby generalhead on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:08 am

Seamus76 wrote:I can definitely help you with the targets. Just let me know if something like Sa6 would work for you and I can help you out. Also anything else I can help with would be my pleasure.

Wow! That definitely looks way better. You are awesome. :-k Could you post that by itself with out the highlight so I can steal it? :-$ :lol:
Thanks buddy! :D
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:36 am

It would be my pleasure, sent you a PM.
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:52 am

GH, had a look over the map and it has come a very long way since you posted your earliest draft. And for that I applaud you. =D> This is not easy, especially when it is your first map and trying to learn new things. Here is a list, not a final list but a list of things that you really need to look at sooner rather than later. ;)

Legends: You have done a good job on these but now they look bare. Try to flesh them out some. But put all text relating to bonuses together. How about a few words on the story under the title. Honestly, I know nothing about this battle and I am sure others do not.

Territory lines: These right now are awful. You have a sense of how to get them done but now they need to be done right. You have some that look to be copy and paste jobs, others that are straight whilst others have a curve to them. Even worse is that some are not clear. Can Crocket attack Bo4? Look at your chapel and try to get the rest like them. Only two lines but drawn with a fluid style that works well. You can use the straight ones for door ways only.

Texture: You till need to find one and place this under your background art. Then lower the opacity of the ground layers so you can see the texture starting to come through.

Shadows: Under the bridges, get rid of these. You have made them float above ground. Add them to the men and cannons though.

River: Now this really bugs me more than anything else on the map. Look by Romero. You have the river then a bank before the walls of the fort. Mo2, Sa3, Du4, in these places, it looks like the river goes under the walls. Give these areas a bank as well.

Glows: You now have a glow around the men in the picture. Give them each a different one and colour the areas under their command the same colour.

Thats is all for now. You are getting their GH, and I look forward to stamping this. You remind me of me 2 years ago when I was doing Rorke's Drift. Keep at it and keep learning. Every time you post, it gets better and better.
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:39 pm

generalhead wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:Also, sorry if it has been discussed, but what's the deal with the saloon? Why is it -1?

It has not been discussed. In the John Wayne movie the Alamo the soldiers would get drunk and get into fights in the saloon. So I figured if you had
armies in the saloon they would be getting drunk and fighting amongst themselves. If others feel that this should not be though I don't feel that strongly about it to not change it.


Historian Timothy Todish wrote:there is not a single scene in The Alamo which corresponds to a historically verifiable incident


You shouldn't use that movie as a reference, if you do then:
Peewee Herman should be on this map.

The main thing is that the battle took place pre-dawn, so nobody was at the saloon, since it was the first time they got to sleep in a while.

More seriously, it doesn't make sense that a cannon in the middle of the building, not connected to any walls (and therefore not connected to windows) can bombard anything. Also, RO2 doesn't have a clear shot to that target either. It needs to be a mortar (instead of a cannon).

EDIT: On second thought, the bombardments don't make any sense at all. If the cannons can bombard into a building, there will be structural damage to the walls, and the walls should not serve as barriers to attack.

Finally, why is there a moat on this map? Ok, I researched this one: there was a ditch that was 2 men wide, called a moat, but it wasn't necessarily filled with water (at least I can't find any evidence).
Last edited by DoomYoshi on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:51 pm

by DoomYoshi on Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:39 pm
Peewee Herman should be on this map.

:lol: That was one of my first thoughts too...where's the basement? lol
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby generalhead on Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:52 am

All great information. Thanks guys, keep it coming. I should have time Friday and Saturday to start addressing all of these.
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Re: Alamo map [6/11] Pg6

Postby tkr4lf on Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:09 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:More seriously, it doesn't make sense that a cannon in the middle of the building, not connected to any walls (and therefore not connected to windows) can bombard anything. Also, RO2 doesn't have a clear shot to that target either. It needs to be a mortar (instead of a cannon).

This is a good point. Generalhead, perhaps consider moving the cannon at CR1 to CR2.

I don't agree about the mortar over the cannon, as there were no mortars at the fort.


DoomYoshi wrote:EDIT: On second thought, the bombardments don't make any sense at all. If the cannons can bombard into a building, there will be structural damage to the walls, and the walls should not serve as barriers to attack.

This I don't agree with. While it's perhaps more realistic, I don't think it would be good for gameplay. But even the realism aspect is debatable. Cannons can easily fire over walls to hit whatever is inside.

As for gameplay, it makes sense to have the walls of the fort be impassable at the start of the battle, and it would be difficult to make the impassables go away mid game, if even possible with xml.

I say leave it the way it is, gameplay trumps realism every time.


DoomYoshi wrote:Finally, why is there a moat on this map? Ok, I researched this one: there was a ditch that was 2 men wide, called a moat, but it wasn't necessarily filled with water (at least I can't find any evidence).

This has been discussed previously. All of the maps show that the river really does run like that, so it's pretty realistic the way it is.


DoomYoshi did have some good points about the Saloon, though. So maybe just changing it to a +1 bonus for holding it would make more sense.



As for your shadows under the cannons Generalhead, can you try reducing the opacity a little bit? It looks odd to me with the color being so prominent, especially the big yellow shadow underneath the cannon at Cr1 and Ro2. The one at Sa5 looks pretty good, perhaps trying to get them all to look more like that one would be better.

Looking good though, it's definitely improving. Keep up the good work!
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