The Great War, updated 16.9.14 update: any future?

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Re: World War I - poll

Postby generalhead on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:56 pm

You could always go for a World War III theme. :-k
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Re: World War I

Postby Oneyed on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:13 pm

you have much great ideas (some of them I had too) but the main problem is space (this will be posted very often now...). 630x600 does not allow much possibilities. and I am not so good in graphic as you - I am impressed what everything you added to Galipolli map...

cairnswk wrote:1. If you examine my WWI Ottoman Empire map you'll find that influence for the war encompassed the Arabaian Peninsular and Palestine areas also. This is where the famous story of Lawrence of Arabia comes from.


not enough space. but I add Persia there as British region, so it is possible to attack Ottomans here. btw, the Arabian revolt was "British work".
cairnswk wrote:2. Australian troops for Gallipoli initally came from Egypt, not London.


yes, but it was British Mediterranean fleet mainly. and to add Egypt is not enough space.
cairnswk wrote:3. If you read this document http://www.dva.gov.au/commems_oawg/comm ... _Unit3.pdf
you'll find there were other troops involved in Gallipoli,
There were four main landing forces:
Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZACs)
the British 29th Division
the French Oriental Expeditionary Corps
the Royal Naval Division.
The total number of men to be landed was about 75,000.
These troops came from:
Britain – with Regiments formed in England, Scotland, Ireland
and Wales;
the British Empire – mainly from Australia and New Zealand,
but with troops also from Newfoundland, Ceylon (the English
Planters’ Rifle Corps), India (the Indian Mule Cart Corps),
and Malta;
France and some African colonial troops from Algeria,
Morocco, Senegal; and
Palestine – Russian and Syrian Jewish refugees (the Zion
Mule Corps).


sorry, but I can not see idea (and again space) how to implement them.
cairnswk wrote:4. The german fleet was not based in Berlin. You could put another territory in near Hamburg at Wilhelmshaven as the German Fllet Base, and call that territory you have in the North Sea
Germany had three dockyards: at Kiel and Wilhelmshaven, and a much smaller facility at Danzig. The High Seas Fleet made its home port at Wilhelmshaven, Germany's principal North Sea base, on the Jade Bay near Hamburg.
from http://www.cityofart.net/bship/deutsch.html#base


I know. but I can not have there too much regions and I want to do capitals important. maybe Hamburg could has connection to German fleet.
cairnswk wrote:the Battle of Jutland which is the major skimish between Britain and Germany in 1916.


this is not battle of Jutland. this is German fleet which bombarded Yarmouth and Lowestoft. and this is here because it is not possible to attack England (only Persia).
cairnswk wrote:5. the English fleet base was based mainly at Plymouth not London.


as I said I want to do capitals important and capitals are seats of goverment - so all decisions and orders become from there. and again a little space.
cairnswk wrote:6. The Russians had a naval fleet operating in the Baltic and Black Sea which are areas that saw combat skirmishes - you haven't mentioned these


wikipedia: With heavy defensive and offensive mining on both sides, fleets played a limited role in the Eastern Front.
cairnswk wrote:7. Spain was neutral in WWI, but lost many tonnes of cargo to the German U-boats. That could be a feature somehow operating in the Altantic Ocean, and give reason to increase the size of the map so that the naval line from England goes properly through the Med. Sea. and not over Spain.


again a litle space.
cairnswk wrote:8. the italian campaign seems confined to Northern Italy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Ca ... d_War_I%29
in the Eastern Alps and northern Dalmatia.
This piece from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_in_World_War_I shows that Italy also had problems in Africa.
As Italy entered the war on 23 May 1915, the situation of her forces in the colonies was critical. Italian Somaliland was far from being pacified, and in Cyrenaica the Italian forces were confined to some separated points on the coast. In Tripolitania and Fezzan, the story has a different beginning. In August 1914 the Italian forces reached Ghat, that is, conquered most of western Libya. But in November 1914, this advance turned into a general retreat, and on 7 April and 28 April, they suffered two reverses at Wadi Marsit (near Mizda) and al-Qurdabiya (near Sirte) respectively. By August 1915, the situation in Tripolitania was similar to that of Cyrenaica. The conquest of Libya was not resumed until January 1922.


Africa is not included there and without supersize will be not. I think that Battle sites which reverts to neutral and conditional borders which allows you to attack them represent trench warfrare or hard situation in Alps.
cairnswk wrote:9. There is no reference on your map to some of these major battles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mi ... orld_War_I
that took place.


there are just few battles, I know. but everything depends on space.
cairnswk wrote:In short and to be somewhat blunt (but not to offend :) )...the map seems like simply another map of Europe with some WWI territories marked on it that you may possibly develop some special gameplay on.


yes, this is Europe map divided as in WWI was and with some WWI regions. but I must disagree that this is just another Europe map with some WWI regions. I add there what 630x600 allows me (and what I was able to do). and map has unique gameplay, close to reality.
cairnswk wrote:If you really want to create an excellent map for WWI based around Europe, then please include a good majority of these reference battles and then name the map WWI - Europe and (Africa). I realise you can't include everything, but a good majority would be appropriate.


I am afraid that excelent map with majority of things mentioned by you is almost impossible. it would need super supersize... (and maybe some graphic master) :) .
cairnswk wrote:And yes... it would be important to get it supersized. :)
Please rethink your plans here. :)
[/quote]

yes supersize would be needed. maybe, I do not much like supersize.

thanks for your input. you have great ideas, but the question is how to implement them to map? I realy do not want go for too large map...
will think about it. and sorry for so many "not enough space" :lol:

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Re: World War I - poll

Postby cairnswk on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:15 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:My thoughts:
...The thing is I agree that World War I has been done to death in a general way but you could totally just give a new spin and have something unique. Either that or abandon the whole WWI theme and just take this excellent look/feel and transfer it to a completely different setting.
Cheers,
-FT

There are i beleive only 3 WWI maps...
WWI Ottoman Empire
Europe 1914
Trench Warfare....
but plenty of WWII maps. :)
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Re: World War I - poll

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:21 pm

HardAttack wrote:personally i hate, and avoid playing of those so-called supersize maps...
i m not meaning territory counts to be the scale to call a map supersize but the map itself, pixels and how large it is laid on the screen thing i m speaking here...really it annoys scrolling down reading game chat then looking map again, to make it scroll back up to the map etc...

as long as possible, please lets keep map size small as much as possible for operationality.


We changed the policy (and the sizes) exactly for this reason. The new small supersize is (max) 50 px more than the standard size for the height, so you don't have to scroll so much! ;)

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=182136

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Re: World War I - poll

Postby HardAttack on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:28 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
HardAttack wrote:personally i hate, and avoid playing of those so-called supersize maps...
i m not meaning territory counts to be the scale to call a map supersize but the map itself, pixels and how large it is laid on the screen thing i m speaking here...really it annoys scrolling down reading game chat then looking map again, to make it scroll back up to the map etc...

as long as possible, please lets keep map size small as much as possible for operationality.


We changed the policy (and the sizes) exactly for this reason. The new small supersize is (max) 50 px more than the standard size for the height, so you don't have to scroll so much! ;)

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=182136


ty :)
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Re: World War I - poll

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:50 pm

I like it but it could be a bit more accurate. During the War the British invaded from Egypt to what you have labeled as Syria and Mesopotamia. It's kind of a forgotten battlefield of the war, but is worthy of mention on this map. Have the british fleet also attack Syria.Make the Battle to enter the Ottoman Empire the battle of Gaza.

I wrote up a big paragraph about the Soviet Union in there and its relationship with the Russian empire and Germany, but after reviewing the map again, I saw what you did and it looks great!

Also I feel like Belgium ought to give a bonus of 1, given that it was profitable for the Germans once they took it.

I'm a tad confused about Britain, shouldn't it have territories within it? If you separate Ireland and North Ireland, make Ireland decay -1 per round because of the Easter rebellion. No decay on North Ireland.

I disagree that towns should only bonus +1 if you hold all of the same power, just make it +1 for each town.

And given the rules and gameplay of the map, I think the capitals ought to be starting points, but I can't see anything that indicates this. The rest of the map at random deployment would be much better than a ton of neutrals, but set all the the territories to start at 2 instead of 3. that way a player starting in his home country isn't faced with too much difficulty in getting his state on track to fight WW1.


It really looks great, by far better than most of the war maps we have on CC. Once you get this one through, I'd be inclined to push for a WWII style map like this.

But to address Nobodies in your defense: Yes, it is similar to Europe 1914, but the chief difference is that it actually depicts the events of 1914-1918, whereas Europe 1914 only plays out the states and territories of Europe in 1914. This map offers a more intriguing gameplay revolving around crucial battles and varying borders. In my opinion, this map is by far superior to Europe 1914.
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Re: World War I - poll

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:14 pm

This is a good looking map Oneyed!! I believe this can go to the max supersize small of 780x650, add 10% for the large and you will be at 858x715 which is just a tad larger than the standard large. I'll let you know if you can go with the larger sizes!
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Re: World War I - poll

Postby Oneyed on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:53 am

Industrial Helix wrote:I like it but it could be a bit more accurate. During the War the British invaded from Egypt to what you have labeled as Syria and Mesopotamia. It's kind of a forgotten battlefield of the war, but is worthy of mention on this map. Have the british fleet also attack Syria.Make the Battle to enter the Ottoman Empire the battle of Gaza.


I know and as I wrote with cairnswk, everything is question of space. but it seems that it is on the right way and I will wait on isaiah.
Industrial Helix wrote:I wrote up a big paragraph about the Soviet Union in there and its relationship with the Russian empire and Germany, but after reviewing the map again, I saw what you did and it looks great!


thanks.
Industrial Helix wrote:Also I feel like Belgium ought to give a bonus of 1, given that it was profitable for the Germans once they took it.


then only Germany, +1 for Belgium? btw, Belgium gives to Germany (all Central Powers) bonus as occupied region...
Industrial Helix wrote:I'm a tad confused about Britain, shouldn't it have territories within it? If you separate Ireland and North Ireland, make Ireland decay -1 per round because of the Easter rebellion. No decay on North Ireland.


Britain is impassable from continent. so therefore I add there only few regions and made German fleet able to bombard England. so here is question - could be Britan attackable? maybe "hold German Empire and French Republic to attack Britain"?
Industrial Helix wrote:I disagree that towns should only bonus +1 if you hold all of the same power, just make it +1 for each town.


the towns has their importance - you need to hold it to attack battle site. but wiht supersize I will add more towns there, so maybe +1 for 2.
Industrial Helix wrote:And given the rules and gameplay of the map, I think the capitals ought to be starting points, but I can't see anything that indicates this. The rest of the map at random deployment would be much better than a ton of neutrals, but set all the the territories to start at 2 instead of 3. that way a player starting in his home country isn't faced with too much difficulty in getting his state on track to fight WW1.


I also wanted to do capitals as starting points, but player with Sofia will have big advantage - he attacks Bulgaria and will easy hold Bulgarian Kingdom and then bonuses for holding entire state... will think about this.
Industrial Helix wrote:It really looks great, by far better than most of the war maps we have on CC. Once you get this one through, I'd be inclined to push for a WWII style map like this.


thanks you :) . similar WWII map from me is here in Map Ideas.

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Re: World War I - poll

Postby Oneyed on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:54 am

isaiah40 wrote:This is a good looking map Oneyed!! I believe this can go to the max supersize small of 780x650, add 10% for the large and you will be at 858x715 which is just a tad larger than the standard large. I'll let you know if you can go with the larger sizes!


this is great news. will wait ;)

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Re: World War I - poll

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:36 pm

As for Britain, divide it into Scotland, England and Ireland, then let the German Fleet attack England. Then British were pretty conscious of a German invasion before the war and to them it was a real possibility during the war. One possibility would be to have a German and a British Fleet in the North Sea and have them meet at a Battle of Jutland battle site. From the Battlesite is a one way attack to Germany or Britain.

For Bulgaria, make the Balkan countries a collection bonus, +1 for 3 when held with Sofia. Or just leave it as is, Bulgaria doesn't seem to have a bonus on its own, so the existing bonus system would work if you did starting points.

Going back to the British Med fleet. I think a route to the battle of Gaza would be a good solution to including that sector of the war. Additionally during the war, Allied troops massed at Salonika in Greece, so a route from the fleet into a Battle site of Salonkia in Greece to Bulgaria would be good.

And I don't know about how appropriate Verdun is as a battle site. The German strategy there was to create a meat grinder to kill as many French soldiers as possible, they could have broken through, but never did because that wasn't the plan. The French didn't stand a chance to break through there and even if they won the Battle, they wouldn't have been able to. I think renaming it Somme is better.

I was also thinking that adding an air element to the map would be cool, like battles can bombard capitals, German Fleet bombards London, but air power did little but terrorize people, so it was kind of negligible in terms of determining the war. So leaving it out might be the best choice.

Lastly, some of the labels are too obscured where they cross over borders. The best solution is to put a light glow on the words the color of your lightest tan color on the map. Do it for all the labels and you'll have everything looking pretty.
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Re: World War I - poll

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:44 pm

sorry for late response, but I think about new version of map. now I work on new one with some yours and cairnswks tips.

Industrial Helix wrote:As for Britain, divide it into Scotland, England and Ireland, then let the German Fleet attack England.


I am not sure with this. if I add Egypt with Alexandria to the map it will be the next British regions.
Industrial Helix wrote:Then British were pretty conscious of a German invasion before the war and to them it was a real possibility during the war. One possibility would be to have a German and a British Fleet in the North Sea and have them meet at a Battle of Jutland battle site. From the Battlesite is a one way attack to Germany or Britain.


this could works.
Industrial Helix wrote:Going back to the British Med fleet. I think a route to the battle of Gaza would be a good solution to including that sector of the war. Additionally during the war, Allied troops massed at Salonika in Greece, so a route from the fleet into a Battle site of Salonkia in Greece to Bulgaria would be good.


I will do something ;)
Industrial Helix wrote:And I don't know about how appropriate Verdun is as a battle site. The German strategy there was to create a meat grinder to kill as many French soldiers as possible, they could have broken through, but never did because that wasn't the plan. The French didn't stand a chance to break through there and even if they won the Battle, they wouldn't have been able to. I think renaming it Somme is better.


Somme sounds good.
Industrial Helix wrote:I was also thinking that adding an air element to the map would be cool, like battles can bombard capitals, German Fleet bombards London, but air power did little but terrorize people, so it was kind of negligible in terms of determining the war. So leaving it out might be the best choice.


the bombarding was not so important. and I am afraid that there would be too much "things" with airwarfare.
Industrial Helix wrote:Lastly, some of the labels are too obscured where they cross over borders. The best solution is to put a light glow on the words the color of your lightest tan color on the map. Do it for all the labels and you'll have everything looking pretty.


thanks. I am looking forward to your next tips about graphic. I like your maps :)

thank you for input. :)

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Re: The Great War - new name, new version

Postby Oneyed on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:52 pm

here is new version with new name. I think The Great War sounds better :D

I added here some new ideas, map is enlarged to Egypt. also new element added - Army. the map needs a little work, not everywhere 888s fit, but I think it is possible to make map with standard size.

all comments, ideas, advices, notices are welcome :)

Click image to enlarge.
image


PS: could any of mods stop and delete poll? thanks.

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Re: The Great War - new name, another version

Postby Oneyed on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:37 pm

I see no interest here, so I made another version.

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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:34 am

and a little different graphics

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Re: The Great War - new name, another version

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:35 am

Oneyed wrote:I see no interest here, so I made another version.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Oneyed

This is by far the best version. Have you spoken to isaiah about sizes yet? If not, send him a PM. Oneyed, you mentioned to me in the last PM that you where not going to work on this which is why I have not moved it. Do you intend to continue with this one, if so, I will bung it into the drafting room for you.
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Re: The Great War - new name, another version

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:47 am

koontz1973 wrote:This is by far the best version.


I also like this, but version with inner glows looks also fine.
koontz1973 wrote:Have you spoken to isaiah about sizes yet? If not, send him a PM.


yes. I told him that I think it is possible to do this map in standard size. if not then I will write him again for supersize.
koontz1973 wrote:Oneyed, you mentioned to me in the last PM that you where not going to work on this which is why I have not moved it.


this valids for the very first version. there were some problems with XML and concept at all. now I found version which I like (thanks for tips) and also I found some guys who like it.
koontz1973 wrote:Do you intend to continue with this one, if so, I will bung it into the drafting room for you.


if map is so far that you can move it, it would be nice :)

thanks, koontz.

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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:55 am

In here for now you are. Oneyed, going to keep you here for a bit. Couple of reasons so do not be alarmed. Firstly, lets see how you do with the current size and if you need to go larger. No point in going on if you cannot continue as it is and having to start over again. Secondly, the main foundry is very full at the moment. A lot of maps are getting lost in the grab for attention. You will probably get more here as we have very few maps. Will move it as soon as I can though.
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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:47 am

koontz1973 wrote:In here for now you are. Oneyed, going to keep you here for a bit. Couple of reasons so do not be alarmed.


thanks and no problem.
koontz1973 wrote:Firstly, lets see how you do with the current size and if you need to go larger. No point in going on if you cannot continue as it is and having to start over again.


lets see how 888s look in map. I think have this map in 630x600 size is possible.
koontz1973 wrote:Secondly, the main foundry is very full at the moment. A lot of maps are getting lost in the grab for attention. You will probably get more here as we have very few maps. Will move it as soon as I can though.


no problem. this map needs any discusion and work.

here is map with 888s at the problematic places. I need help with font, I can not do nice font in circle - around battle sites. I do not know if it is GIMP problem or just me :lol:
also some graphic art will be needed to make things more different.
and also I wait for discusion about gameplay and features used in map.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:26 am

Font in circles, using the curve tool doe not work well sometimes. Best way to do it is to do each letter individually and rotate it slightly differently.

you have a crease going down the middle, lose this as it is distracting and not done very nicely. A better way can be done, but do you know how to bump map?
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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:14 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Font in circles, using the curve tool doe not work well sometimes. Best way to do it is to do each letter individually and rotate it slightly differently.


I also tried this and font is cluttered then. sometimes a lot. I do not know how for example did Kabanelas font in circles on Napoleonic Europe...
koontz1973 wrote:you have a crease going down the middle, lose this as it is distracting and not done very nicely. A better way can be done, but do you know how to bump map?


bump? what it means?

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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:11 pm

I also tried this and font is cluttered then. sometimes a lot. I do not know how for example did Kabanelas font in circles on Napoleonic Europe...

If it is cluttered, then just move each letter apart some. I think you may of misunderstood me. You need to do each letter separately. Then rotate each letter by a different degree. Then use the move tool to move it into place. If it looks cluttered, move it further away from the previous one. But you need to do each one separately.
bump? what it means?

Go into filters/map/bump map.
What this will allow you to do is to add some height to the map. You need to have a layer to use but anything works for you to test it out on. You will get a new window, with a few sliders to move around. At the top, a drop down box for the layer for the bump. Choose the right one. The the top two sliders with give you varying heights and shadows. Easy to use and an give good results.
If you look at the middle of folds, you will see creases, little bumps in the paper. Hence bump map.
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Re: The Great War - more versions, updated

Postby Oneyed on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:52 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I think you may of misunderstood me. You need to do each letter separately. Then rotate each letter by a different degree. Then use the move tool to move it into place. If it looks cluttered, move it further away from the previous one. But you need to do each one separately.


I understod you. I did it so, but some letters are impossible to read after rotate them.
koontz1973 wrote:Go into filters/map/bump map.
What this will allow you to do is to add some height to the map. You need to have a layer to use but anything works for you to test it out on. You will get a new window, with a few sliders to move around. At the top, a drop down box for the layer for the bump. Choose the right one. The the top two sliders with give you varying heights and shadows. Easy to use and an give good results.


I see what it doing. thanks.
koontz1973 wrote:If you look at the middle of folds, you will see creases, little bumps in the paper. Hence bump map.


I edited background by another way, because by bump map background lost also small blemishes.

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Re: The Great War - gameplay and features commnets

Postby Oneyed on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:28 am

guys, while this map was moved and some of you posted here good tips (especialy cairnswk and Industrial Helix) could we speak more about features and gameplay?

I have some questions:
1, the Trench war was mainly at the western front and Alps. so I think to do eastern front more "open" - without Battle sites. change Battle sites here to Towns?
2, I think I will replace Belgrade as Battle site to Town, but hold it as crossing between Hungary and Serbia.
3, when it is possible to attack England (it was never happends) over Jutland Battle site and Great Fleet, could I have also Alexandria attackable over 11th/10th armies and Mediterranean Squadron (this also never happends)?
4, add any negative bonus (-1) for holding RSFSR and maybe Finland? so Russian Empire has +1 for Finland, but RSFSR -1.

PS: koontz it seems that the problem was with font. I found font which after rotate looks fine. thanks for help.

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Re: The Great War - nobody, nothing about gameplay?

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:55 pm

Glad to see you adopted some of my suggestions. Maybe its me but I'm having a hard time reading a lot of the labels, mostly the battle names because of the curve but also the other names where they cross over a black border. I recommend you fix this asap as more people will be draw to the map if its all clear at first sight.
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Re: The Great War - nobody, nothing about gameplay?

Postby Oneyed on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:24 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Glad to see you adopted some of my suggestions. Maybe its me but I'm having a hard time reading a lot of the labels, mostly the battle names because of the curve but also the other names where they cross over a black border. I recommend you fix this asap as more people will be draw to the map if its all clear at first sight.


I work on new font around battle sites. then I will try any outer glow...
thanks.

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