Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & XML

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:50 am

RedBaron0 wrote:I kinda agree about the straight line nature of the main mountain range in the center. Adding some girth (additional mountains) to the range as a whole would likely fix this.

I agree as well.

RB, what is your opinion on the creases?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:13 am

why is one way attack from Tian shui to Yong? it is because geography reason or? I do not like it much.
the font of parts of kingdoms does sting my eyes.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:04 pm

Oneyed wrote:why is one way attack from Tian shui to Yong? it is because geography reason or? I do not like it much.
the font of parts of kingdoms does sting my eyes.

The reason for the one way is to represent the constant, and failed, historical attempts of the south to invade the north. It also adds more gameplay strategy to holding Central Wei.

Which font/text exactly are you referring to? Let me know some examples.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Seamus76 wrote:The reason for the one way is to represent the constant, and failed, historical attempts of the south to invade the north. It also adds more gameplay strategy to holding Central Wei.


this make sense. then good feature here :)
Seamus76 wrote:Which font/text exactly are you referring to? Let me know some examples.


Bei Ping, Central Wei, Riverland, Jing, Yang, Jiao, Southern Yi, Liang.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:11 pm

Seamus, your title text looks blurred. Make it sharp like the rest of the text but change the colour to a brown on burn mode. Change the brown as needed so it looks part of the map.

Bei Ping, Central Wei, Riverland, Jing, Yang, Jiao, Southern Yi, Liang.

Agree with Oneyed over these mini map names. The font is out of place.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Seamus, your title text looks blurred. Make it sharp like the rest of the text but change the colour to a brown on burn mode. Change the brown as needed so it looks part of the map.

Bei Ping, Central Wei, Riverland, Jing, Yang, Jiao, Southern Yi, Liang.

Agree with Oneyed over these mini map names. The font is out of place.

Got it. What do you guys think, just keep those names the same font as the mini-map kingdom names?

Edit: It might look better with the same font as the tert names, but I may just have to play around with them and post a couple versions for review.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.3 [2013-02-14] p9

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:25 pm

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-02-22:
- Redid the Southern mountains, which I think look pretty good, and are no longer just a straight line.
- Redid the mini-map bonus label text fonts, which now match the kingdom font.
- Worked on the title again.

As for the crease I think it actually looks pretty good as well, and much more realistic than the previous lines. Correct me if I'm wrong but I also think it makes it stand out from other maps, as I'm not sure there are any others with such a style of crease. I plan to be going with this version moving forward, but can certainly move tert names around as needed or if people have a problem with any overlaps.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.1 [2013-02-22] p10

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Creases look fine, in fact it might be a decent idea to add a crease in a corner or 2, for additional realism, but that's up to you. The territory names should be affected by the creases, so if and all possible I'd move the territory names away from the creases so this has little to no affect on their readability.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.1 [2013-02-22] p10

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:42 am

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-02-25:
- Moved any tert names that were under a crease. On tert names where I could not move them due to the size of the tert I used a couple of different ways to get it to look more effected by the crease then before, but keeping them still readable.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.1 [2013-02-22] p10

Postby iancanton on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:23 pm

i do like the crease effect, which immediately tells us that this is a paper map.

the course of the pearl river, which is one of two readily-recognisable features on the map, at nanhai is wrong. the river actually flows roughly south-east from where guiyang meets lu-ling, cutting nanhai in half; a bridge can be drawn between the two halves of nanhai to keep it as one region. mountains between nanhai and lu-ling form a natural impassable.

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:48 pm

While geographical accuracy is a good thing, it isn't always good for gameplay. I dislike the use of bridges within regions to keep them connected denoting that they are still "connected" it invites confusion.

Impassibles should be placed at the mapmakers discretion based on their judgement of the region, overall gameplay, and aesthetics of the image itself.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.1 [2013-02-22] p10

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:54 am

Thanks as always ian, your feedback is invaluable, and I absolutely love your consistency. I knew I had seen this before, and I found your original post from 2008 (below) referencing the same thing. At the time I was researching the map I noticed the post and tried to find the original map you referenced but the only maps I found confirmed what gimil had posted, which is, the change would really not effect gameplay, and would require (as pointed out by nolefan) a bridge within a tert which I had already been told to remove from Tribal War - Israel due to only adding confusion. I made the decision to go with gimils original design as it was the best for gameplay and only slightly off from geographical accuracy, which I too think is acceptable for the map. Unless there is a huge motion from the community I would like to keep the river and impassables as they are.

iancanton wrote:i do like the crease effect, which immediately tells us that this is a paper map.

the course of the pearl river, which is one of two readily-recognisable features on the map, at nanhai is wrong. the river actually flows roughly south-east from where guiyang meets lu-ling, cutting nanhai in half; a bridge can be drawn between the two halves of nanhai to keep it as one region. mountains between nanhai and lu-ling form a natural impassable.

ian. :)


RedBaron0 wrote:While geographical accuracy is a good thing, it isn't always good for gameplay. I dislike the use of bridges within regions to keep them connected denoting that they are still "connected" it invites confusion.

Impassibles should be placed at the mapmakers discretion based on their judgement of the region, overall gameplay, and aesthetics of the image itself.


gimil wrote:
iancanton wrote:Re: Post by iancanton on Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:40 am
cangwu and yulin need to be swapped round and the borders of the southern wu continent adjusted. the pearl river runs into the sea to the west of nanhai and does not go any further east. can u replace the eastern part of the river by mountains, as i have done in the mock-up below (thick brown line above nanhai)? i've also opened up an attack route between nanhai and guiyang to eliminate the nanhai dead-end, but i think the dead-end isn't a big issue if u don't like the gap between the mountains and the river.

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my main source for the above changes is this map, which shows the position in ad 229, when hepu had been split into two commanderies for a short period.

http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/decr ... _map16.gif

ian. :)


Cheers ian, appreciated as always. Unforuntaly adding the river in your mock up wouldnt change the gameplay. Because I used the pen tool to create my contients it would be alot of work with no gain. Reducing the other river will be a drastic change to gameplay. Im happy to live with this inaccuarcy for the sake of maintaining gameplay.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby The Bison King on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:41 am

I made the decision to go with gimils original design as it was the best for gameplay and only slightly off from geographical accuracy, which I too think is acceptable for the map. Unless there is a huge motion from the community I would like to keep the river and impassables as they are.

I believe that this is a good decision.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:01 pm

A few items. First of all this map is really turning out pretty darn good seamus!

1. The bonus amounts on the mini-map for Wu, especially on Yang is very hard to read. Maybe increase the outer glow a tad bit to make it stand out more. The same on Jing.
2. The bonus amount on Bei Ping is also hard to read, move it beside Bei Ping.
3. The Chinese character for Shu is hard to see as well, it needs to be darkened a bit.
4. Kingdom of Wu text is hard to tell exactly what it is. It looks like the "g" is an "s".
5. Kindom of Shu text is hard to read due to the light color you have. My suggestion is to use the same dark color you have for the bonus amounts.
6. I think that you will also need to adjust the kerning of the text for each "the Kingdom of ..." as the letters are very close together which also makes them hard to read. I can read them fine because I've been following the map, but first time players probably will have a hard time reading them.
7. I'm sorry, but those mountains do not go with the rest of the map. They stick out like a sore thumb, so they need to be changed. RjBeals did a quick tutorial on hand drawn mountains, take a look at it and see what you can do.

Well these items should keep you busy for awhile. Looking forward to your next update!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:22 pm

isaiah40 wrote:A few items. First of all this map is really turning out pretty darn good seamus!

1. The bonus amounts on the mini-map for Wu, especially on Yang is very hard to read. Maybe increase the outer glow a tad bit to make it stand out more. The same on Jing.
2. The bonus amount on Bei Ping is also hard to read, move it beside Bei Ping.
3. The Chinese character for Shu is hard to see as well, it needs to be darkened a bit.
4. Kingdom of Wu text is hard to tell exactly what it is. It looks like the "g" is an "s".
5. Kindom of Shu text is hard to read due to the light color you have. My suggestion is to use the same dark color you have for the bonus amounts.
6. I think that you will also need to adjust the kerning of the text for each "the Kingdom of ..." as the letters are very close together which also makes them hard to read. I can read them fine because I've been following the map, but first time players probably will have a hard time reading them.

Well these items should keep you busy for awhile. Looking forward to your next update!

Ok, nice little check list, give me a couple minutes on these. lol :lol:

7. I'm sorry, but those mountains do not go with the rest of the map. They stick out like a sore thumb, so they need to be changed. RjBeals did a quick tutorial on hand drawn mountains, take a look at it and see what you can do.

Ouch, this one does sting a bit. Of course Rj makes it look extremely easy, but I'm willing to give it another go. The current mountains are the 4th version, and one of those thorns in my side. I thought we had come up with a winner, but I will give it my best shot and see what I can produce.

Thank you for your time and feedback. I really appreciate it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby sannemanrobinson on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:26 am

Seamus76 wrote:
7. I'm sorry, but those mountains do not go with the rest of the map. They stick out like a sore thumb, so they need to be changed. RjBeals did a quick tutorial on hand drawn mountains, take a look at it and see what you can do.

Ouch, this one does sting a bit. Of course Rj makes it look extremely easy, but I'm willing to give it another go. The current mountains are the 4th version, and one of those thorns in my side. I thought we had come up with a winner, but I will give it my best shot and see what I can produce.

Thank you for your time and feedback. I really appreciate it.

It might be an idea to use the background (light brown texture) instead of the dark brown for the mountains. The background acts also as an impassable at the borders of the map so it could be a logical choice to make them blend in more.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby gimil on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:47 am

Hi Seamus this look wonderful. Maybe after your next update I will pop back and give it a once over. I love how rugged yet simplistic the style you have used as turned out.

Nice =D>
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:54 am

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-03-18:

- Redid the Northern Shu mountains, and added a bit of "snow color" to the tops, but nothing else at the moment. Before I add more color to them, and more importantly before I do the Eastern mountains I want to get everyone's thoughts on these, especially isaiah40. I actually think they do look better and fit more with the style of the map, and if everyone agrees I'll go ahead and finish them up in this style.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v5.2 [2013-02-25] p10

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:00 pm

Seamus76 wrote:- Redid the Northern Shu mountains, and added a bit of "snow color" to the tops, but nothing else at the moment. Before I add more color to them, and more importantly before I do the Eastern mountains I want to get everyone's thoughts on these, especially isaiah40. I actually think they do look better and fit more with the style of the map, and if everyone agrees I'll go ahead and finish them up in this style.

I like them. Lets hope the shading looks as nice.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.0 [2013-03-18] p11

Postby RjBeals on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:51 pm

those look nice. I wouldn't do much more with the shading or more color, sometimes less is more.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.0 [2013-03-18] p11

Postby Seamus76 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:36 pm

RjBeals wrote:those look nice. I wouldn't do much more with the shading or more color, sometimes less is more.

Thanks so much. I've been looking at them all day and you're right they don't need much if anything, maybe just a real light black brush, very low opacity.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.0 [2013-03-18] p11

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:01 pm

Well Seamus, these mountains are 1000 times better, as you said fits more with the theme. I don't think you will need to any shading. As for the snow on the mountains, I can't really see it. I had to look really close to see, even then the snow was very hard to notice. I think you can do away with the snow.

So all that being said, you have my blessing, and go and sin no more my child!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.0 [2013-03-18] p11

Postby sannemanrobinson on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:41 am

THe one way assault from Tian Shui is less visible now, maybe adding a remark in the legend would be helpful for people who first see this map.

Between Han Zhong and Jet Ling the border would be more clear if there would be less mountains between those regions.

Overall I like the sharp and stylistic mountains!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.0 [2013-03-18] p11

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:13 am

Aye mountains look good. I can barely notice the "snow" so if you like that, you'll have to make it more noticeable. My -only- gripe with the mountains would be that at least a couple of them should be blue as well.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v6.1 [2013-03-20] p11

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:04 am

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-03-20:
- Added in the Eastern mountains.
- Redid the Northern mountains to include a few blue ones.
- Did a ton of general touch ups, border lines, stray pixels, etc. Still need to go over it again.

If this is acceptable I'll go ahead and start on the small map. Let me know your thoughts.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v6.1 - Large (840x800)
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