Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & XML

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:44 pm

I think you should probably run with n2, since nobody will ever start with more than 1. Can you update this in the first post?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:47 pm

N2 seems good. It would allow players an easy bonus and make some think twice.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:17 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I think you should probably run with n2, since nobody will ever start with more than 1. Can you update this in the first post?

I have updated the first post to include wording which states that starting neutral cities will start 2 neutral.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby skychaser on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:07 pm

Wow. Nice. I would ask for this map here.

The Three Kingdoms(San Guo) is the name of an "AGE" of the Chinese history populated by the most bravest, smartest and badassests heroes of all time.

There's a book called Romance of the Three Kingdoms(san guó zhi) which is a mix of ancient history and romance itself. It's kind of a huge book(about 3.000 pages) full of dids of intelligence(Zhuge Liang is the most fucking strategic bastard of all times and Guan Yu is so bold he's revered today as a god in some regions, bold to the point a doctor would cut his meat and clean his bone with a blade while he plays chess calmly) but I think it's a must read for anyone who's slightly interested in strategies. There's also the Records of Three Kingdoms which is the history de facto.


Conditions to win(if applied) could be by having most cities but not by commercial routes. Commercial routes where opened and were of importance at the time and these routes are still active today basically 18 centuries later but the deciding factor was always the war and the commercial routes only reflected the wars and the power shifted caused by the wars.
And the history itself only ends in the book when all the kingdoms are united again under a lord.
The book has it's 3000 pages but he starts and ends with the same paragraph.

There could be a bigger version of the map. There are lots and lots of cities at the book and at the maps
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby neanderpaul14 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:31 pm

Having flashbacks to the old Romance of the Three Kingdoms video games, can almost hear that haunting music.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby Seamus76 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:14 pm

neanderpaul14 wrote:Having flashbacks to the old Romance of the Three Kingdoms video games, can almost hear that haunting music.

Good stuff, I'm glad you like the map. Maybe we should ask for map soundtracks for the next "update". :lol:

skychaser, you are correct, what an amazing time period, and some of the most important writings in history. I would love to make a larger map featuring the battles and wars, this one though is meant to be a simple representation of the Kingdoms, which is what I feel a lot of players are looking for these days. I would love to see any maps or ideas you have though.

Thanks again guys, keep the feedback coming.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby skychaser on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:29 am

I think Shu is a good name however Shu-Han would be more suitable to the western region. Liu Bei conquered it as the means of preserving the Han dynasty so that's why the name for.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby skychaser on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 am

There's a lot of battles that can be made into maps. Red Cliff as an example would be a good naval battle map.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:58 am

neanderpaul14 wrote:Having flashbacks to the old Romance of the Three Kingdoms video games, can almost hear that haunting music.

+1

Nothing better than trapping Dong Zhou in a corner and setting fire to him, and watching him roast while he tries to charge his way out!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.0 [2013-01-23] p6

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:47 am

nolefan5311 wrote:I'm going to go ahead and sticky this for a couple days (probably until after the weekend) as the gameplay looks solid.

If anybody has any issues regarding Gameplay, now is the time to speak up. Otherwise, this will be stamped in a few days.

Just checking on the status.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:38 am

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-01-29:
Starting to work on graphics in anticipation of GP stamp. Personally I really like this map, so please let me know what I need to work on.
- Added slight shadow to the coastline.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v4.1 - Large (840x800)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby sannemanrobinson on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:05 pm

I like this as well. Especially the four red lines as a frame and the paper texture. The mountains look good too. The filling of the continents is a bit massive and not exacly the same as the minimaps. Maybe just indicating the borders of the continents with the same colour as the minimaps would work just like in 3 kingdoms of Korea.

Gameplay related: Central Wei could be +6 to be more attractie than Jing. Then Kingdom of Wei would be +10. On the other hand if you have Bei Ping it will be easy to hold so it could stay like now. Maybe connect Bei Ping and Jianye over the sea?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Well. Talking on gameplay. Don't we need more bonuses? Wei is surelly stronger, but at this map is the only one who's got easy bonuses.
Take Yang as an example. You must have 6 territories to get a +3 bonus, 6X3 = 18. So you must maybe conquer 18 territories to get a bonus +3. Which will pay itself in over 6 rounds Which means that in most absolute of the matches we will never have one of these territories being taken.


Shu has no bonuses except that unexperienced players of no card and fixed cards may try to take something.
Wei has only two bonuses we can account. Most people would take then given that they are dropped with most territories there. The central part of Wei is not that much of a bonus. You must defeat 27 armies to have a bonus of 5 and 666 borders to defend.

I think this map with virtually no bonuses tends a little to lesser action. Most people would never take nothing than the +1 bonuses and it's not something to make someone jealous or something.

I don't know if people agree to me but I would put a little bit of numbers to the bonuses, the +1 would become +2 and the +2 become +4. All the other with the addiction of 2.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:44 pm

I will take one final look at it tonight to and address skychaser's comments before stamping. Sound good Seamus?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:52 pm

I can see where skychaser is coming from. Hm.


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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:55 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I will take one final look at it tonight to and address skychaser's comments before stamping. Sound good Seamus?

That's perfect, just let me know what you come up with.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:18 pm

skychaser wrote:Well. Talking on gameplay. Don't we need more bonuses? Wei is surelly stronger, but at this map is the only one who's got easy bonuses.
Take Yang as an example. You must have 6 territories to get a +3 bonus, 6X3 = 18. So you must maybe conquer 18 territories to get a bonus +3. Which will pay itself in over 6 rounds Which means that in most absolute of the matches we will never have one of these territories being taken.


Shu has no bonuses except that unexperienced players of no card and fixed cards may try to take something.
Wei has only two bonuses we can account. Most people would take then given that they are dropped with most territories there. The central part of Wei is not that much of a bonus. You must defeat 27 armies to have a bonus of 5 and 666 borders to defend.

I think this map with virtually no bonuses tends a little to lesser action. Most people would never take nothing than the +1 bonuses and it's not something to make someone jealous or something.

I don't know if people agree to me but I would put a little bit of numbers to the bonuses, the +1 would become +2 and the +2 become +4. All the other with the addiction of 2.


I have 2 thoughts on this.

The first is the obvious solution break up some of the larger bonuses into smaller ones.

The second is a little different. You could scrap the +4 for all the capitals rule. I think that's a little bit of a tired convention and doesn't add much to the map anyway. With that rule scraped you could add a new rule. Something to the tune of +1 for any 3 territories within a kingdom held with the capital. This would make the larger bonus regions more of just a territory buffet. You wouldn't need the entire region to reap a reward so long as you have the capital. The actual territory bonus would probably only come into play at the end game (as it probably would already). This would also give the kingdoms more of a unified feel if holding the capital along with bonus regions was a reward in and of itself.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:20 pm

That being said I think Sky Chaser is over emphasizing the need for more obtainable bonuses. I can see 2 bonuses in the red region that could be easily held with 2 territories. You could probably have either of them within round 5. It may not need any serious adjustment.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:22 pm

Thanks so much guys for the discussion and feedback, this is great stuff.

The Bison King wrote:That being said I think Sky Chaser is over emphasizing the need for more obtainable bonuses. I can see 2 bonuses in the red region that could be easily held with 2 territories. You could probably have either of them within round 5. It may not need any serious adjustment.

I agree as well. The bonuses have been pretty well examined and seem appropriate for the size of the map.

Also, the more I mull over your capital bonus thoughts the more I like it. There is nothing more I dislike than bonuses that don't get used, so something like this is more appealing. Would the capitals still start 3n or maybe go to 4n because of the new importance?

Nole, very much still interested in your thoughts.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:18 pm

I didn't make myself clear so let me try again.

The bonuses aren't "hard" do obtain. I mean. Only that People go (in classic) for Australia cause it's easy to obtain and easy to protect. Very seldom one would go for such bonuses after round 3 however. A bonus obtainable by round 5 is a bonus that mostly doesn't exists at least at 6 players escalating(I don't know but I think it's the most played mode.

These bonus will very seldom be taken at escalating.
They will be still taken if it's played by 4 people or less.
They will be taken at Fixed cards and no cards.
They will be taken at escalating provided people are playing fog of war mode(my favorite).

Not ranting here. Just that I thought a slight more bonus would make more wars about these bonuses. I can't see however not many ways of winning in this map aside from turtling in clear escalating game.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Or it may just be because i like bonuses the most even though I hardly get one any match.(I get a bonus in about 3% of my games in medium maps like this one).
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Graceless_ on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:03 am

Just wanted to say, awesome concept for a map. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a great book.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Vlasov on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:08 am

Mongolia, perhaps?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:38 am

skychaser wrote:I didn't make myself clear so let me try again.

The bonuses aren't "hard" do obtain. I mean. Only that People go (in classic) for Australia cause it's easy to obtain and easy to protect. Very seldom one would go for such bonuses after round 3 however. A bonus obtainable by round 5 is a bonus that mostly doesn't exists at least at 6 players escalating(I don't know but I think it's the most played mode.

These bonus will very seldom be taken at escalating.
They will be still taken if it's played by 4 people or less.
They will be taken at Fixed cards and no cards.
They will be taken at escalating provided people are playing fog of war mode(my favorite).

Not ranting here. Just that I thought a slight more bonus would make more wars about these bonuses. I can't see however not many ways of winning in this map aside from turtling in clear escalating game.

I play a lot of no spoils dubs games so this is very helpful information, and I really appreciate you taking the time to post. I'm looking forward to playing everyone on the map once it's in beta. Nole was pretty instrumental in helping shape the current bonus structure so we'll see what his thoughts are, and I'll kind of go from there.

Benzorrr wrote:Just wanted to say, awesome concept for a map. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a great book.

Thanks, I think it's going to be a pretty popular map, but we'll see.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:29 pm

Vlasov wrote:Mongolia, perhaps?

The mongolians lead by Genghis Khan invaded China a couple centuries later the age of the Three Kingdoms of this map.

He wouldn't stand a chance if Zhuge Liang would be alive at the period.

Genghis Khan founded the Yuan Dinasty(that lasted 1000 years), this map represents the batle of three other ones.

Wei is the clan of Cao Cao, later lead by Cao Pi, Shu Han by Liu Bei and later Liu Chan and the Wu by Sun Jian and his sons Sun Ce and Sun Quan.
After these battles the Sima's could unify the country and were defeated later by Ghenghis Khan.

Thus the mongolians are far from here.
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