Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & XML

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Tviorr on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:17 pm

I like the balance of the map. The various fairly small bonuses work well. Lots to go for and settle with more or less ease, but only for limited bonus values, so even settling something is not neccessarily decisive for the game. I would think its especially good as a setup for 1v1 or 1 team v 1 team games.

I agree that the original (or recent) setup for the bonus of the capitals is a bit underpowered. Hard to get and hold (comparatively) so it does need some extra incentive to make it worth going for. - Im however wondering if 2 for 2 and 6 for 3 isnt a bit overpowered. - I kind of like the idea of having to get all 3 to achieve something. 6 might be good for that, but still. - It may push at the balance somewhat, cause it is then quite a big bonus for the map. -

Have you considered an alternate importance such as no bonus but a win clause? - Holding 3 capitals could give you the win. - This sort of makes sense to me as holding all capitals would be a logical thing to do to gain absolute power. - However this may also be overpowered, so Im wondering if a bit of an add on would be an option:

Such as: Hold all 3 capitals and the support of - hmmm 2? - villages to achieve ultimate power over the 3 Kingdoms of China. This would be doable, especially with trench setting yet sufficiently hard that youd need a lot of strength or careful and weaselly planning to swing it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby lokisgal on Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:29 pm

To me this is a good solid map - Its what I would refer to as a basic map - fairly well balanced no special tricks. Its a great map for 1 vs 1 or for dubs - I cant see it working for quads - to small.
The play is nice and straight forward

I do like the suggestion above about the capitals. Im not sure how that would play out in reality though. It could make for a very quick game given the size of the map. If you got the right drop you could potentially win in just a few rounds and that doesnt really make for fun game play so the holding of capitals plus 2 villages - (maybe 1 in the north one in the south) seems like an interesting idea

The capitals bonus should be altered in some way not sure exactly how but right now they don't seem to ever come into play and that seems a waste

Also the drop seems to be really one sided in a lot of games with one person being able to grab an entire bonus region very quickly
Last edited by lokisgal on Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Gilligan on Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:23 pm

Updated!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby TheCrown on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:34 am

2014-03-04 08:58:35 - TheCrown: I like this map because it's not easy to get a big bonus, it's usually little ones that you get first
2014-03-04 08:59:30 - TheCrown: What I don't like about this map is the one way attack, it seems a little unfair
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby *Pixar* on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:57 am

as I do like three kingdoms of korea, it is a very simple but takes some strategy to compete:) the only thing I dont like is the capital bonus between holding 2 capitals and 3 capitals a bonus of an extra 4 troops kinda unfair!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby iancanton on Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:32 pm

gilligan, is the xml that is currently in play the China-v11(2013-12-31).xml file or a different one? in Game 14110298, despite u suck gaining 2 capitals after the update on 2014-03-08, he did not receive the +2 bonus for holding 2 capitals.

2014-03-09 09:45:49 - u suck assaulted Cheng-du from Yin Ping and conquered it from neutral player
2014-03-09 17:25:53 - u suck assaulted Jianye from Yu Zhang and conquered it from Pander88uk

2014-03-09 17:28:21 - Incrementing game to round 8
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 2 troops for holding City Bonus
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 6 troops for 20 regions

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Gamefreakguy on Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:48 am

Hey, posting for the March challenge, but wanted to say that I've really enjoyed this map so far! I like that each player starts with a city and therefore has a potential bonus just 1 city away, or can eliminate that potential for someone else right away. I think the drawback, as is getting a lot of attention in this thread, is the capitals - if I was designing the map, I'd make them +2 for 2 and +4 for 3, but with an additional +1 autodeploy on each. I feel it would provide the best incentive and balance.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby thoffs on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:13 am

First quality that attracted me to this map was color scheme & simplicity. I am a bit of a purest at times & enjoy geographically accurate maps such as this. I am new to commenting on map design, so forgive me if this is way off. Would it be a good addition to create a one way pass into the green area from the red & bump the overall green bonus up to +9? Thought I would throw that out there just in case you didn't consider it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Swifte on Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:13 am

Posting for the BetaMarch challenge - and also to support a great map!

I've mostly played this map as doubles or triples, and I have really enjoyed the games. The great thing about this map to me is the number of small bonuses available, whether its one of the +1 region bonuses, or the endless combination of potential city bonus pairs - there really aren't any sections you can just forget about just because the region is too big to hold - if you ignore an area you are at least giving up a +1, potentially.

A suggestion for the map... the Zhuge Liang quote is great, but to me it kind of becomes a little blurred with the description of the capital/city rewards because it's a similar font. I know space is at a premium on the map, but it might stand out more either right below the map title (which may not be practical at this point because the space really isn't there) or along the lower right of the map where it wouldn't be competing with anything else.

Thanks and great job Seamus, hope this one is out of beta soon so you can keep making great things! :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby iancanton on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:59 pm

iancanton wrote:gilligan, is the xml that is currently in play the China-v11(2013-12-31).xml file or a different one? in Game 14110298, despite u suck gaining 2 capitals after the update on 2014-03-08, he did not receive the +2 bonus for holding 2 capitals.

2014-03-09 09:45:49 - u suck assaulted Cheng-du from Yin Ping and conquered it from neutral player
2014-03-09 17:25:53 - u suck assaulted Jianye from Yu Zhang and conquered it from Pander88uk

2014-03-09 17:28:21 - Incrementing game to round 8
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 2 troops for holding City Bonus
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 6 troops for 20 regions

ian. :)

the +2 bonus for holding 2 capitals also failed to trigger in Game 14181868, which was initialised on 2013-03-21, even though JOHNNYROCKET24 held 2 capitals for much of the game.

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby facet on Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:01 am

[beta map challenge]

I loved the design, this is one of the most beautiful maps I have played.

There was very little to dislike! The one way attack was the only slight annoyance. I need to play it a lot more before I can tell if it is unfair.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby jeremscarem on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:04 pm

also seem to be missing the +2 for 2 capitals bonus in game 14245190.
i'm sure you're on it, great map, love the artwork and gameplay.
thanks guys

iancanton wrote:
iancanton wrote:gilligan, is the xml that is currently in play the China-v11(2013-12-31).xml file or a different one? in Game 14110298, despite u suck gaining 2 capitals after the update on 2014-03-08, he did not receive the +2 bonus for holding 2 capitals.

2014-03-09 09:45:49 - u suck assaulted Cheng-du from Yin Ping and conquered it from neutral player
2014-03-09 17:25:53 - u suck assaulted Jianye from Yu Zhang and conquered it from Pander88uk

2014-03-09 17:28:21 - Incrementing game to round 8
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 2 troops for holding City Bonus
2014-03-09 17:29:13 - u suck received 6 troops for 20 regions

ian. :)

the +2 bonus for holding 2 capitals also failed to trigger in Game 14181868, which was initialised on 2013-03-21, even though JOHNNYROCKET24 held 2 capitals for much of the game.

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby HotShot53 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:16 am

As has been said before, holding Jianye and Chengdu didn't give me the +2 troop bonus :( I could have really used it too lol.

(Game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14245202)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Fuchsia tude on Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:35 am

HotShot53 wrote:As has been said before, holding Jianye and Chengdu didn't give me the +2 troop bonus :( I could have really used it too lol.

(Game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14245202)

Same in 14068876 with Luoyang and Jianye.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Tobikera on Tue May 06, 2014 10:43 am

Fuchsia tude wrote:
HotShot53 wrote:As has been said before, holding Jianye and Chengdu didn't give me the +2 troop bonus :( I could have really used it too lol.

(Game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14245202)

Same in 14068876 with Luoyang and Jianye.


I've played this map quite a bit, and like it in general. It's one of my top 10 maps to play. Two suggestions:

1. As an old fart, I find it very difficult to read the territory names. Any chance of boldening them a bit?
2. As with the quoted comments above, I have held every combination of captials multiple times, including all the capitals three times, in games and have yet to get the stated bonus points for same. Hope you can fix that.

Thanks, Tobikera
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Tobikera on Thu May 08, 2014 11:07 am

Hey, I can see the territory names better now!!! Thanks!!!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Gilligan on Thu May 22, 2014 10:58 am

interesting, from what i can see the city bonus should be functioning properly.

Code: Select all
<continent>
<name>City Bonus</name>
<bonuses>
<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">1</bonus>
<bonus required="6">1</bonus>
<bonus required="8">1</bonus>
</bonuses>
<components>
<territory>Liang</territory>
<territory>Bei Ping Port</territory>
<territory>He Fei</territory>
<territory>Lin Hai</territory>
<territory>Changsha</territory>
<territory>Hepu</territory>
<territory>Yuesui</territory>
<territory>Han Zhong</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>


it has the proper city territories, and gives +1 for every two. :?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby shoan on Sat May 24, 2014 6:47 pm

Capital Bonus is not working. If I knew how to include a screen shot I would, but dont. I hold 2 of the capitals, but am not receiving the +2 bonus for them. And I notice in the continents overview, that the +6 for all 3 isn't even listed.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Gilligan on Wed May 28, 2014 11:22 pm

the capital bonus is fixed.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Metalon on Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:33 am

Just dropping by to say that I love it :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Seamus76 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Metalon wrote:Just dropping by to say that I love it :)

Thanks so much.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby Seamus76 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:31 pm

I do think the Capital bonus is too large now at +6 for only 3. I think +4 would be sufficient to put them into play. Thoughts anyone?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby iancanton on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:17 pm

+4 for 3 disconnected capitals has already proved to be insufficient. in fact, in the 15 final 1v1, standard, auto, sequential, escalating, chained, sunny, no trench, unlimited length games completed with a notional +4 capital bonus (up to and including Game 14404475), 3 capitals were never held by anyone at all.

of the 7 initial 1v1, standard, auto, sequential, chained, sunny, no trench, unlimited length games started with a +6 capital bonus (up to and including Game 14489277), 3 capitals were held in 1 game. 14% is not excessive, although we need to wait for more completed games before drawing firm conclusions.

if i have one gameplay recommendation to make, it is a minor one, to reduce the liang north and bei ping west starting neutrals from n3 to n2, to bring them into line with the cities, capitals and nanman. at the moment, the liang and bei ping bonuses are hardly ever used. this is an xml change only, with the map images staying the same.

two things i've noticed about the map images are that the shu character to the left of the kingdom of shu mini-map is barely visible and there appears to be the shadow of a character to the left of jiaozhi. perhaps u can darken slightly the background behind the shu character?

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby GrudgeBringer_ on Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:33 am

This map struck me immediately as a straight forward map (I was one of the first to promote Eurasia for the same reason...however obvious differences).

We had an 8 player game. 4 officers left that not only know each other but LOVE to cut each others throats and still playing out, so I won't comment on gameplay.

But the general concensus is the the 'Names' on the provinces and division lines really DO need to be darker. Not bad, 1 gripe and it is cosmetic!!! Well Done :!:
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & X

Postby RedBaron0 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:17 pm

Seamus76 wrote:I do think the Capital bonus is too large now at +6 for only 3. I think +4 would be sufficient to put them into play. Thoughts anyone?


Could be, up to you though. Each capital has a lot of territories that can attack it and break the bonus however. Make it too low and no one will go for it... If you wanna true something lower, I'd say split the difference, and try +5 first.

GrudgeBringer_ wrote:This map struck me immediately as a straight forward map (I was one of the first to promote Eurasia for the same reason...however obvious differences).

We had an 8 player game. 4 officers left that not only know each other but LOVE to cut each others throats and still playing out, so I won't comment on gameplay.

But the general concensus is the the 'Names' on the provinces and division lines really DO need to be darker. Not bad, 1 gripe and it is cosmetic!!! Well Done :!:


I agree with this little cosmetic change too, especially for the red and green sections, but otherwise you're just about done here!
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