[Vacation - valid until August 2014] Homeworlds

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (10/31)

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:18 pm

I decreased the number of players to 20 from 26 which let me move around the wormholes and slightly change how they function. Here is a text representation of what you see on the map in icon form.

The map could be played as a 20 player Battle Royale with each player starting with a Homeworld and it's matching System Sector. However I think it might be fun making it a 40 player map and dropping the players randomly on the 108 "sector space" sectors which would give each player 2 starting positions and it would be a mad scramble for the sectors and Homeworlds. Alternately you could do the same with 2-12 players although that may not be as much fun.

What do you folks think?

Am I going in the right direction?

=D13=

======================================================================================

Nebula
- Nebula sectors are impassible
- Nebula sectors are Killer 5

Wormholes
- Wormhole sectors are impassible
- Wormhole sectors are adjacent
- Wormhole sectors are killer 5

Bonuses
- Any 3 system or regular sectors grant +1 bonus
- Each Homeword grants a +1 bonus
- Each Starbase grants a +1 bonus

Nebulon
- Nebulons Homeworld is autodeploy 5
- Nebulons system sector decays 2 per turn
- Nebulons system sector may assault any wormhole when you have a hypergate there

General
- Homeworlds are adjacent to their own system sector, starbase, hypergate, and research
- Starbases may bombard and be bombarded by their system sector
- Starbases may bombard regular sectors up to a range of 1

Researches (All bonuses are cumulative)
2 - Terraforming: Each homeworld grants a +1 deployable bonus.
3 - Hyper Jump: Each system sector where you control the hypergate may assault other system sectors up to 2 away.
4 - Improved Sensors: You may assault wormhole sectors (they are no longer impassible)
5 - Clone Facility: Each starbase grants a +1 deployable bonus.
6 - Alien Artifact: You are granted +6 deployable bonus every turn.
7- Improved Sensors: You may assault nebula sectors (they are no longer impassible)
8 - Terraforming: Each homeworld grants a +1 deployable bonus.
9 - Hyper Jump: Each system sector where you control the hypergate may assault other system sectors up to 4 away.
10 - Clone Facility: Each starbase grants a +1 deployable bonus.
11 - Improved Sensors: Each system sector where you control the hypergate may assault wormhole sectors up to 4 away.
12 - Alien Artifact: You are granted +6 deployable bonus every turn.
15 - Hyper Jump: Each system sector where you control the hypergate may assault other system sectors up to 6 away.
16 - Terraforming: Each homeworld grants a +1 deployable bonus.
18 - Alien Artifact: You are granted +6 deployable bonus every turn.
* each

Image

With 33's added in just for checking spacial relations etc...

http://imageshack.com/a/img853/6096/nepn.png
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/4)

Postby OliverFA on Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:46 pm

I like the fact that hyper gate now requires research level 3, as that was my biggest (and only one really important) complain. Perhaps you can add two more homeworlds in 608 and 1208, as that's the standard distance for all the other homeworlds. The researches seem pretty well distributed, and I also like the fact that 1 research does nothing, as it encourages conquering other worlds.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/4)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:24 am

Great to see another update for the map. Here's my thoughts on the new map design:

- I like how the icons clean up the text clutter on the map and believe they're a good improvement to the map. I do wonder if they make it a bit harder for the average player to follow who's just looking at the map for the first time. I don't think there's anything you can do to make the meaning of the icons clearer. It'd be nice to get other people's feedback on this concern, since I may just be not giving the average player enough credit.

- The bottom left area where you have the starbase bombard routes. Having the arrows going both ways makes it look like the system sector and one away can also bombard the starbase. Presuming this isn't a new feature you're adding, then I think the arrow should only point towards the sector icon.

- I also notice the starbase is able to assault the homeworld according to the attack routes in the bottom left. Is this an intentional change from how the map was previously or is there an error in the legend and you meant to have the homeworld -> starbase assault be one way still?

- I'm guessing the "Alien Artifact" tech no longer requires Nebulon, if I'm reading correctly? If it doesn't, then no problem. If it does still require Nebulon, then techs 6 and 7 should be swapped so you can reach Nebulon before you research the bonus

- The alien artifact bonus should be switched to something like +6/+12/+18. As it is now, for example, Terraforming at level 16 is worth at least another 16 troops compared to Alien Artifact's +6 troops at level 18.

- Unlike Oliver, I actually think it'd be better to have a research at level 1 to provide an additional bonus opportunity in the early game, which in turn will help players build troops faster to support taking over other homeworlds. Maybe a clone facility tech level would go well there, since it's not as valuable as terraforming, since it means the player has to take the starbase as well, but it's nearly as valuable and still would provide some small bonus. It also encourages earlier use of the research spots. I think players are still plenty encouraged to go take over more homeworlds, esepcially with the terraforming being the next tech at level 2. Terraforming would provide an additional 2 troops, plus the clone facility from level 1 if added would provide an additional troop, plus the extra troops homeworld/starbase naturally provide.

- I also just noticed in the text description you have homeworld/starbase as providing +1 deployable bonus each, whereas the map says they provide +2 auto for homeworld and +1 auto for starbase.

- Unless there's some reason not to include homeworlds at 608 and 1208, I think it'd be a good idea to include them, to provide players with more options and add a couple more bonus areas around the map.

- I think thematically it makes more sense to have the players start on the homeworlds and move out from there. I also like the feel of the gameplay more this way as well. That being said, considering it's supposed to be a Battle Royale map, starting players in the sectors may make more sense, since it will increase the number of players from 20 (22 w/the extra homeworlds) to up to between 40 and 47, depending on how you look at the distribution, which feels much more like a Battle Royale than playing with an extra 8-10 players compared to the standard 12 player games we have now.

- If you're going to start players in the sectors, I'd recommend setting only sectors adjacent to system sectors as starting points, so that nobody gets screwed by dropping further away. If I counted correctly, there are currently 90 sectors adjacent to system sectors and there'd be 94 if you added the two homeworlds at 608 and 1208. You could either start with 40/44 players and have 1 homeworld for every 2 players or you could start with 45/47 players and fill out all of the sectors adjacent to the homeworlds and have a slightly bigger blood bath for players to get a homeworld.


I think that covers it for now. Overall I like the updated design and think it's much cleaner. I also think, with the small exceptions noted above, the tech is well balanced. Good work and I look forward to seeing your feedback and the future updates :)
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/4)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:18 pm

OliverFA wrote:I like the fact that hyper gate now requires research level 3, as that was my biggest (and only one really important) complain. Perhaps you can add two more homeworlds in 608 and 1208, as that's the standard distance for all the other homeworlds. The researches seem pretty well distributed, and I also like the fact that 1 research does nothing, as it encourages conquering other worlds.

Thanx, I am considering adding back those 2 systems.


-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- I like how the icons clean up the text clutter on the map and believe they're a good improvement to the map. I do wonder if they make it a bit harder for the average player to follow who's just looking at the map for the first time. I don't think there's anything you can do to make the meaning of the icons clearer. It'd be nice to get other people's feedback on this concern, since I may just be not giving the average player enough credit.

I am hoping that with icons it will be a bit easier for players who's primary language isn't English.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- The bottom left area where you have the starbase bombard routes. Having the arrows going both ways makes it look like the system sector and one away can also bombard the starbase. Presuming this isn't a new feature you're adding, then I think the arrow should only point towards the sector icon.

You are correct this is a mistake it should be one way bombard from starbase to sector.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- I also notice the starbase is able to assault the homeworld according to the attack routes in the bottom left. Is this an intentional change from how the map was previously or is there an error in the legend and you meant to have the homeworld -> starbase assault be one way still?

I added that to allow you to stock up some defensive troops on the starbase, reserach, or hypergate so that you can retake your homeworld should you lose it.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- I'm guessing the "Alien Artifact" tech no longer requires Nebulon, if I'm reading correctly? If it doesn't, then no problem. If it does still require Nebulon, then techs 6 and 7 should be swapped so you can reach Nebulon before you research the bonus

It does not. You simply uncover alien artifacts as you research on additional planets. Think of it like archaeology is part of research.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- The alien artifact bonus should be switched to something like +6/+12/+18. As it is now, for example, Terraforming at level 16 is worth at least another 16 troops compared to Alien Artifact's +6 troops at level 18.

Hmmm... I had it that way originally and wasn't sure if that was too much. I will run the numbers again and see which seems better.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- Unlike Oliver, I actually think it'd be better to have a research at level 1 to provide an additional bonus opportunity in the early game, which in turn will help players build troops faster to support taking over other homeworlds. Maybe a clone facility tech level would go well there, since it's not as valuable as terraforming, since it means the player has to take the starbase as well, but it's nearly as valuable and still would provide some small bonus. It also encourages earlier use of the research spots. I think players are still plenty encouraged to go take over more homeworlds, esepcially with the terraforming being the next tech at level 2. Terraforming would provide an additional 2 troops, plus the clone facility from level 1 if added would provide an additional troop, plus the extra troops homeworld/starbase naturally provide.

I would like players to need to expand their empire to start getting the research bonuses. Adding something at 1 seems like too much when you already get that autodeploy 1 by taking the starbase.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- I also just noticed in the text description you have homeworld/starbase as providing +1 deployable bonus each, whereas the map says they provide +2 auto for homeworld and +1 auto for starbase.

Hmmm I am still up in the air as to weather that should be deployable or auto. I changed it to auto so you had a forced defensive deployment and research gave you the added deployable bonuses.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- Unless there's some reason not to include homeworlds at 608 and 1208, I think it'd be a good idea to include them, to provide players with more options and add a couple more bonus areas around the map.

I took them out bcause there just wasn;t enough space on the map to fit them down the left side. If I go over-sized and make the map 200 pixels wider I could add them back onto the map and make the game a 22 player instead of 20.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- I think thematically it makes more sense to have the players start on the homeworlds and move out from there. I also like the feel of the gameplay more this way as well. That being said, considering it's supposed to be a Battle Royale map, starting players in the sectors may make more sense, since it will increase the number of players from 20 (22 w/the extra homeworlds) to up to between 40 and 47, depending on how you look at the distribution, which feels much more like a Battle Royale than playing with an extra 8-10 players compared to the standard 12 player games we have now.

Agreed.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:- If you're going to start players in the sectors, I'd recommend setting only sectors adjacent to system sectors as starting points, so that nobody gets screwed by dropping further away. If I counted correctly, there are currently 90 sectors adjacent to system sectors and there'd be 94 if you added the two homeworlds at 608 and 1208. You could either start with 40/44 players and have 1 homeworld for every 2 players or you could start with 45/47 players and fill out all of the sectors adjacent to the homeworlds and have a slightly bigger blood bath for players to get a homeworld.

It's a tough decision. I would make only sectors that are adjacent to a homeworld be a random droppable start. That is for 40 player battle royal. If I decide to go with 20 or 22 players we can have everyone start with a homeworld, system sector, and maybe a few adjacent sector space sectors.

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I think that covers it for now. Overall I like the updated design and think it's much cleaner. I also think, with the small exceptions noted above, the tech is well balanced. Good work and I look forward to seeing your feedback and the future updates :)

Thanx =)

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/4)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:46 pm

Current bonus structure is as follows. For each system you conquer and hold the research and starbase you would get the following amount of deployable troops. You would also get the autodeploy on each homeworld and starbase. These numbers assume that you only use hypergates to jump around the galaxy and do not conquer any standard sectors.

=D13=

==============================================================

*Their would probably be a 1 troop minimum for sectors although that's not certain.

Number - Sector Bonus + Homeworld Bonus + Starbase Bonus + Alien Artifact Bonus = Total

CURRENT
1 - 1
2 - 1 + 2 = 3
3 - 1 + 3 = 4
4 - 1 + 4 = 5
5 - 1 + 5 + 5 = 11
6 - 2 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 19
7 - 2 + 7 + 7 + 6 = 22
8 - 2 + 16 + 8 + 6 = 32
9 - 3 + 18 + 9 + 6 = 36
10 - 3 + 20 + 20 + 6 = 49
11 - 3 + 22 + 22 + 6 = 53
12 - 4 + 24 + 24 + 12 = 64
13 - 4 + 26 + 26 + 12 = 68
14 - 4 + 28 + 28 + 12 = 72
15 - 5 + 30 + 30 + 12 = 77
16 - 5 + 48 + 32 + 12 = 97
17 - 5 + 51 + 34 + 12 = 102
18 - 6 + 54 + 36 + 18 = 114
19 - 6 + 57 + 38 + 18 = 119
20 - 6 + 60 + 40 + 18 = 124
21 - 7 + 63 + 42 + 18 = 130

If the auto is changed to deployable 1 for homeworlds and removed for starbases entirely (must have clone facility research to get a bonus) then we get a few more usable troops at the start of the game.

POSSIBLE CHANGED NUMBERS
1 - 1 + 1 = 3
2 - 1 + 4 = 5
3 - 1 + 6 = 7
4 - 1 + 8 = 9
5 - 1 + 10 + 5 = 16
6 - 2 + 12 + 6 + 6 = 26
7 - 2 + 21 + 7 + 6 = 36
8 - 2 + 24 + 8 + 6 = 40
9 - 3 + 27 + 9 + 6 = 45
10 - 3 + 30 + 20 + 6 = 59
11 - 3 + 33 + 22 + 6 = 64
12 - 4 + 36 + 24 + 12 = 76
13 - 4 + 39 + 26 + 12 = 81
14 - 4 + 42 + 28 + 12 = 86
15 - 5 + 45 + 30 + 12 = 92
16 - 5 + 64 + 32 + 12 = 113
17 - 5 + 68 + 34 + 12 = 119
18 - 6 + 72 + 36 + 18 = 132
19 - 6 + 76 + 38 + 18 = 139
20 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 18 = 144
21 - 7 + 84 + 42 + 18 = 152

With increased alien artifacts as suggested above...

POSSIBLE CHANGED NUMBERS
1 - 1 + 1 = 3
2 - 1 + 4 = 5
3 - 1 + 6 = 7
4 - 1 + 8 = 9
5 - 1 + 10 + 5 = 16
6 - 2 + 12 + 6 + 6 = 26
7 - 2 + 21 + 7 + 6 = 36
8 - 2 + 24 + 8 + 6 = 40
9 - 3 + 27 + 9 + 6 = 45
10 - 3 + 30 + 20 + 6 = 59
11 - 3 + 33 + 22 + 6 = 64
12 - 4 + 36 + 24 + 18 = 84
13 - 4 + 39 + 26 + 18 = 93
14 - 4 + 42 + 28 + 18 = 98
15 - 5 + 45 + 30 + 18 = 104
16 - 5 + 64 + 32 + 18 = 125
17 - 5 + 68 + 34 + 18 = 131
18 - 6 + 72 + 36 + 36 = 162
19 - 6 + 76 + 38 + 36 = 169
20 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 36 = 174
21 - 7 + 84 + 42 + 36 = 182
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/4)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:39 pm

OK... I made a few changes...

Please note that the map images are far from done. After I get a gameplay stamp I will do a complete clean up of everything.

=D13=

=====================================================================

- Increased size to 1000x800 (we are back to over-sized)
- Added 2 systems back so we are at 22 players (or 40) depending on how we decide to go with starts.
- I thought about it and decided to move the starbase bombardment of adjacent sectors to 1 research. Provided that conditional bombardments get implemented before we hit beta on this map. If they don't then I will change it to assaults instead of bombards.
- Changed nebulons to +5 bonus from autodeploy 5,
- Changed nebulons system sector from decay 3 to killer 5,
- Increased artifact bonus to 6,12,18.
- Added a bonus for holding nebulon of double alien artifact bonus.
- Starbases no longer have autodeploy 1.
- Homeworlds now +1 each instead of autodeploy 2.

Here is bonus with homeworld, starbase, alien artifact, and nebulon
1 - 1 + 1 = 3
2 - 1 + 4 = 5
3 - 1 + 6 = 7
4 - 1 + 8 = 9
5 - 1 + 10 + 5 = 16
6 - 2 + 12 + 6 + 6 = 26
7 - 2 + 21 + 7 + 6 + 10 = 46
8 - 2 + 24 + 8 + 6 + 10 = 50
9 - 3 + 27 + 9 + 6 + 10 = 55
10 - 3 + 30 + 20 + 6 + 10 = 69
11 - 3 + 33 + 22 + 6 + 10 = 75
12 - 4 + 36 + 24 + 18 + 22 = 106
13 - 4 + 39 + 26 + 18 + 22 = 115
14 - 4 + 42 + 28 + 18 + 22 = 120
15 - 5 + 45 + 30 + 18 + 22 = 126
16 - 5 + 64 + 32 + 18 + 22 = 147
17 - 5 + 68 + 34 + 18 + 22 = 153
18 - 6 + 72 + 36 + 36 + 40 = 202
19 - 6 + 76 + 38 + 36 + 40 = 209
20 - 6 + 80 + 40 + 36 + 40 = 214
21 - 7 + 84 + 42 + 36 + 40 = 222
22 - 7 + 88 + 44 + 36 + 40 = 228
23 - 7 + 92 + 46 + 36 + 40 = 234
Note: Additional 42 are possible from +1/3

v0.3.1 1000x800

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Sample of what the small map might look like (750x600)

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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/5)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:26 am

degaston, right now and this is no criticism of the map, but if I was to get this for a battle royale, I would have no clue on how to play it. This has now become so complicated, and this is one of the major complaints for the current BR map we have, it seems to need some scaling back and made a lot simpler to play.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/5)

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:45 pm

koontz1973 wrote:degaston, right now and this is no criticism of the map, but if I was to get this for a battle royale, I would have no clue on how to play it. This has now become so complicated, and this is one of the major complaints for the current BR map we have, it seems to need some scaling back and made a lot simpler to play.


So what if I took out all of the extra research stuff for the Battle Royal version of the map and did a stripped down BR version. And left in all the complicated bits for a 12 player map version? For instance.

Homeworlds: Empires would be a 12 player version on the existing map design. Each player would start with a system sector and its corresponding homeworld. Starting them on systems A, C, G, M, R, V, B, F, J, Q, U, W. We could throw in some added open space sectors so that it would be harder to eliminate someone too quickly. I think that I would like to remove team games from the map though.. well maybe ...

Homeworlds: Battle Royal would be a 40 player version that started the players on random open space sectors (I think that's 3 each). Each system sector would still have a Homeworld space and a Starbase with pretty much the same rules as they have now. Gone would be Nebulon, Hypergates, and Research. Bonuses would be based on sectors (+1/3) homeworlds (+1 each) and space stations (+1/2). Space stations could bombard and be bombarded by the system sector they are in as normal. Instead of having research we would have a set bonus at 5, 10 and 15 homeworlds and 5, 10 and 15 space stations. Wormholes would not be impassible.

thoughts?

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/5)

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:43 am

dolomite13 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:degaston, right now and this is no criticism of the map, but if I was to get this for a battle royale, I would have no clue on how to play it. This has now become so complicated, and this is one of the major complaints for the current BR map we have, it seems to need some scaling back and made a lot simpler to play.


So what if I took out all of the extra research stuff for the Battle Royal version of the map and did a stripped down BR version. And left in all the complicated bits for a 12 player map version? For instance.

Homeworlds: Empires would be a 12 player version on the existing map design. Each player would start with a system sector and its corresponding homeworld. Starting them on systems A, C, G, M, R, V, B, F, J, Q, U, W. We could throw in some added open space sectors so that it would be harder to eliminate someone too quickly. I think that I would like to remove team games from the map though.. well maybe ...

Homeworlds: Battle Royal would be a 40 player version that started the players on random open space sectors (I think that's 3 each). Each system sector would still have a Homeworld space and a Starbase with pretty much the same rules as they have now. Gone would be Nebulon, Hypergates, and Research. Bonuses would be based on sectors (+1/3) homeworlds (+1 each) and space stations (+1/2). Space stations could bombard and be bombarded by the system sector they are in as normal. Instead of having research we would have a set bonus at 5, 10 and 15 homeworlds and 5, 10 and 15 space stations. Wormholes would not be impassible.

thoughts?

=D13=


I like all of the suggestions you made here. I could see how for BR you may want to keep it simpler, so more people join the game and you can fill it. There's only two thoughts I have for now:

* I would have only the spots around the homeworlds as starting points, as mentioned previously, which makes it a 45-48 player map, IIRC, with each person starting with two spots each. You could have a no standard bonus on the map and then with each sector being worth 1/3, it'd give players incentive to take out someone else, since then they'd have three spots and be dropping 4 per turn instead of the normal 3.

* I would set it up so the starbases get a bonus at something like 3, 8, and 13. This way it helps spread the extra bonuses out and still have it not be complicated.
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/5)

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:38 am

Working hard to get the Valentines Day map done in time for actual Valentines Day ... and Krazy Kingdom bug fixes.... will have an update in a few weeks.

=D13=
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Re: Homeworlds - Battle Royale - Map/Gameplay Update (12/5)

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:07 am

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. The map is moved to the Recycling Box and put into Vacation status for the next 6 months. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartographer Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)
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Re: [Vacation - valid until July 2014] Homeworlds

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:19 pm

Sounds good.

I probably won't have an update for a month or two.

I need to split this project into two maps (one for 12 players and one for battle royal with 40 players) which will take some time as I want to keep that all in the same PSD and I also run all of the numbers on the bonus structure again with the possible gameplay changes. Their are also some new features coming for mapmakers that may allow me even more flexibility on the research advancements.

=D13=
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Re: [Vacation - valid until July 2014] Homeworlds

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:09 pm

I would like to extend vacation on this through August if possible as I do plan to return to it soon.

=D13=
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Re: [Vacation - valid until July 2014] Homeworlds

Postby RedBaron0 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:14 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I would like to extend vacation on this through August if possible as I do plan to return to it soon.

=D13=


1 more month, done.
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Re: [Vacation - valid until August 2014] Homeworlds

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:50 pm

I will also be re-tooling the map gameplay to use some of the new things that have been implemented for maps such as transformations. Any ideas are appreciated.
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Re: [Vacation - valid until August 2014] Homeworlds

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:29 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I will also be re-tooling the map gameplay to use some of the new things that have been implemented for maps such as transformations. Any ideas are appreciated.


If my understanding based on what bigWham has said is correct, then I think conditional autodeploys via transformations could work for this map. If you have enough researches, you get a bonus autodeploy to your homeworld, maybe.
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