Research & Conquer [24 Oct 2013] V37 pg 103

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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby isaiah40 on Tue May 07, 2013 3:50 pm

EricPhail wrote:National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK

the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)

Thank you for commenting Eric! To collect the National Pride bonus you need to hold for example SW Lab and SW Homeland. The homeland is designated on the map with the outer glow.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby EricPhail on Tue May 07, 2013 4:04 pm

Glad for that answer Isaiah.

would like an answer on my questions re: territory MH3 not having a number in the 888s on p89s small
and the duplicate entry in the legend if possible though
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby isaiah40 on Tue May 07, 2013 4:24 pm

EricPhail wrote:Glad for that answer Isaiah.

would like an answer on my questions re: territory MH3 not having a number in the 888s on p89s small
and the duplicate entry in the legend if possible though

The 888's are only there to show how they fit, so one territory not having it does not matter really. Duplicate entry has already been deleted for the next update.

Provisional Starting Numbers: I think that some of them need to change especially the mines. Some of the mines start at 5, others at 2 or 3. I believe they should all start with the same number.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby EricPhail on Tue May 07, 2013 4:50 pm

Drops is beyond my knowledge so I can't really help you there. (but i'd favor ones in a kingdom getting one value all others getting a different one probably 5 and 3 respectively)
However one or two other things:
Legend: Having the lab entry above the researches assualt nothing one seems to make more sense to me

Also it may be wise to allow the researches to assault (or more commonly reinforce) back to the lab for two reasons:
1. avoids troops getting trapped if a basic research kills an advanced one with troops left over (given these locations can't be attacked by foes, or card sets dropping extra troops there
2. allows the possibility of re-taking the library if it gets killed due to nuclear spoils

on that note can certain territories be programmed to never drop as cards as nuking capitals would be instant death in larger games, and nuking libraries very annoying, also nuking the neutral doomsday device would be rather distorting.
(Actually perhaps this map should have a disclaimer: don't play with nuclear spoils)
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby ender516 on Wed May 08, 2013 9:08 pm

There is no way currently to restrict territories from becoming spoils.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed May 08, 2013 10:28 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
EricPhail wrote:National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK

the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)

Thank you for commenting Eric! To collect the National Pride bonus you need to hold for example SW Lab and SW Homeland. The homeland is designated on the map with the outer glow.


I'm not sure if it's specified anywhere, but each player starts with a matching capital and a lab. The labs can't be attacked from anywhere, so the lab is used to determine what your original nation is.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed May 08, 2013 10:41 pm

EricPhail wrote:Drops is beyond my knowledge so I can't really help you there. (but i'd favor ones in a kingdom getting one value all others getting a different one probably 5 and 3 respectively)
However one or two other things:
Legend: Having the lab entry above the researches assualt nothing one seems to make more sense to me

Also it may be wise to allow the researches to assault (or more commonly reinforce) back to the lab for two reasons:
1. avoids troops getting trapped if a basic research kills an advanced one with troops left over (given these locations can't be attacked by foes, or card sets dropping extra troops there
2. allows the possibility of re-taking the library if it gets killed due to nuclear spoils

on that note can certain territories be programmed to never drop as cards as nuking capitals would be instant death in larger games, and nuking libraries very annoying, also nuking the neutral doomsday device would be rather distorting.
(Actually perhaps this map should have a disclaimer: don't play with nuclear spoils)


First, thank you for the time you're putting into the map Eric, it's always great to see new faces contributing :)

I hadn't thought of this before and you raise a very good point. When the map's gameplay was originally hammered out, nukes didn't exist so we didn't have to worry about it. I do think it'd be a good idea to allow researches to attack the labs. It would make nuke games playable, since otherwise the loss of the lab would completely kill the research for a player for the entire game.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed May 08, 2013 10:50 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
EricPhail wrote:Glad for that answer Isaiah.

would like an answer on my questions re: territory MH3 not having a number in the 888s on p89s small
and the duplicate entry in the legend if possible though

The 888's are only there to show how they fit, so one territory not having it does not matter really. Duplicate entry has already been deleted for the next update.

Provisional Starting Numbers: I think that some of them need to change especially the mines. Some of the mines start at 5, others at 2 or 3. I believe they should all start with the same number.


Hi Isaiah, a few things that jumped out at me:

* Visually speaking, I think having TSF be the first listed advanced research makes a bit more sense, since to me at least, it more intuitively goes along with it being able to help with the research of advanced techs.

* The neutrals were originally designed to have homelands have a base neutral of 2, the territories bordering the homelands have a base neutral of 5, one more territory out further having a base of 3, the next set out having 2, and the next set 1. Those with mines have one extra neutral troop. The neutrals were laid out this way so it would be increasingly more difficult for someone to get closer to an opponents homeland, thereby making it a bit harder for an early elimination of those who chose to focus more effort on research.

* Mines should be at +2 per mine.

* Open conscription should read +1 troop per region


Hope this helps :)
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby isaiah40 on Thu May 09, 2013 3:03 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:Hi Isaiah, a few things that jumped out at me:

* Visually speaking, I think having TSF be the first listed advanced research makes a bit more sense, since to me at least, it more intuitively goes along with it being able to help with the research of advanced techs.

* The neutrals were originally designed to have homelands have a base neutral of 2, the territories bordering the homelands have a base neutral of 5, one more territory out further having a base of 3, the next set out having 2, and the next set 1. Those with mines have one extra neutral troop. The neutrals were laid out this way so it would be increasingly more difficult for someone to get closer to an opponents homeland, thereby making it a bit harder for an early elimination of those who chose to focus more effort on research.

* Mines should be at +2 per mine.

* Open conscription should read +1 troop per region


Hope this helps :)

Yes it does. I can move the TSF up to the top of the Advanced Researches no problem.

The neutrals make sense now, so I have no problem with them.

For the Mines and Open Conscription here is Oliver's post on the values which the current map has. viewtopic.php?p=4150015#p4150015
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby OliverFA on Thu May 09, 2013 5:05 pm

EricPhail wrote:edit: from OliverFAs post
National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK

the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)

edit2: wait nevermind works by definition unless labs can be lost


That's right. By definition a player can't lose his lab ;)
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby OliverFA on Thu May 09, 2013 5:11 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
EricPhail wrote:I hadn't thought of this before and you raise a very good point. When the map's gameplay was originally hammered out, nukes didn't exist so we didn't have to worry about it. I do think it'd be a good idea to allow researches to attack the labs. It would make nuke games playable, since otherwise the loss of the lab would completely kill the research for a player for the entire game.


Despite that's not ideal I agree that this might be the only solution. Let's say that the budget assigned towards a research project that is not used can be reassigned to other project and that would justify researches being able to attack labs.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby OliverFA on Thu May 09, 2013 5:14 pm

I'd like to say that the map looks really cool. It's pleasant to see and I can picture myself playing on that boards and getting totally immersed in the game. Good work Isaiah! :)
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby EricPhail on Fri May 10, 2013 6:40 am

Apologies if this was stated some time ago (long thread) but with respect to starts whilst 4+ players are obvious (1 Capital, 1 Lab), less than 3 players is less clear so:

Do you only start with 1 Capital, 1 Lab even with only 2/3 players
OR
Do 3 Player games start with 2 Capitals each, 2 Player games with 3 each but still only 1 lab
OR
Do small games start with multiple capitals and multiple labs?
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby isaiah40 on Fri May 10, 2013 10:10 am

OliverFA wrote:
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
EricPhail wrote:I hadn't thought of this before and you raise a very good point. When the map's gameplay was originally hammered out, nukes didn't exist so we didn't have to worry about it. I do think it'd be a good idea to allow researches to attack the labs. It would make nuke games playable, since otherwise the loss of the lab would completely kill the research for a player for the entire game.


Despite that's not ideal I agree that this might be the only solution. Let's say that the budget assigned towards a research project that is not used can be reassigned to other project and that would justify researches being able to attack labs.

Or have the Homeland Capital able to reassign men to the lab? I think this makes more sense.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 April 2013] v29 Pg 89

Postby EricPhail on Fri May 10, 2013 5:33 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Or have the Homeland Capital able to reassign men to the lab? I think this makes more sense.


Perhaps more thematic sense, however, allowing capitals to attack labs brings it own set of problems:

It breaks the seperation of the research from the land (which I found an admirable concept, that lands couldn't directly interefere with research)
AND
It brings with it the concept of multiple labs (which I was coming to obliquely in my previous post about starts, I didn't want to bring it up if not needed) and thus the question of bonus stacking (2x National Pride maybe, but double propoganda, conscription, and mining FEEL silly, even if they're not unbalancing) which complicates things, (even if only to the extent of making the legend say: IDENTICAL RESEARCHES DON'T STACK)

So I feel allowing the researches to counter assault is a better idea (avoiding multiple labs entirely if you force 1 Lab only at the start, well, barring deadbeats in team games that is).
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