[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:26 pm

OliverFA wrote:
RjBeals wrote:I must say OliverFA - you deserve a great welcome to the foundry. fresh Ideas and good attitude - exactly what we need around here. I'm partial to classic style gameplay, but have been wanting to broaden my range. I'll try to think through what you've posted so I can grasp the idea better. I hope you stick around here ;)


Thanks so much :-) At last I have realized that this place is a better place to release creativity than the suggestions forum!

I truly hope we can finally develop an entertaining and interesting map :-)


I second RJ's welcoming note.

And I agree - Sugs & Bugs never goes anywhere!!

C.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:32 pm

yeti_c wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RjBeals wrote:I must say OliverFA - you deserve a great welcome to the foundry. fresh Ideas and good attitude - exactly what we need around here. I'm partial to classic style gameplay, but have been wanting to broaden my range. I'll try to think through what you've posted so I can grasp the idea better. I hope you stick around here ;)


Thanks so much :-) At last I have realized that this place is a better place to release creativity than the suggestions forum!

I truly hope we can finally develop an entertaining and interesting map :-)


I second RJ's welcoming note.

And I agree - Sugs & Bugs never goes anywhere!!

C.


And i trible rj's welcomeing note:P
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:14 pm

eigenvector wrote:I like this very much. Great idea!

I was just thinking of something a bit similar. Will post more tech ideas later..


Thanks for the comment, eigenvector
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Androidz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:29 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Androidz wrote:Sounds nice, think some maps are pretty close those idea's tough. And tech should lead to anotehr tech. And if you choose one tech you cant choose another etc.

There are different ways to make the tech tree:

2 - Basic techs can be researched in any order, with advanced techs having basic techs as requisite.

This is what I proposed. I think this is better because gives players more freedom. The bad part is that a player that does not understand the rules can attack (research) many techs at the same time. But I think that if rules were clear enough, taht would not happen.

In my opinion this opens more possiblities. Player A can research the tech to enhance territory bonus while player B can research the tech to enhance continent bonus and player C researchs the "research speed" tech so he can always deploy on the geographical map and not have to deply on the research map. Each player will have a different strategy, which I think is good.




Option B is verry good. Which allow the players to choose what fitt them best etc, if player A have a continent bonus he would go for upgrade continent bonus.

But player B have lots of terretories so he go for upgrade is number of armies per terrories.

Now Player A can upgrade his continent bonus again to level 2 Continent bonus tech. But he could also choose something else. which he have been given access to cause of he reasarched the other tech.



Now you asked if the rules is clear enough this wont happen, well it will unless you do as ant wars.
Lets say Tech 1 options is given a "Yellow Colour Code = Beginner" Haveing 2 yellow techs will give you -100 armies at start of each turn. This way they have to choose 1.


And theres LOTS of options for diffrent techs. Check out my Atlantis map idea first post there ive posted 60 bonuses for codes:P So you can make it a quite complex tree.

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=57173&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Codebreaker










Another thing you could do is (not sure if the xml allows it) You cant attack Tech level 2. Before have conquering Tech Pointcards/Reasarch failcites on map you more you have you more you can upgrade on the tech tree so it will lots of them on the map. The problem with this is a player with bad dices still don't have a chance.

Hope you understood what i said.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:18 pm

eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby eigenvector on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:36 am

ZeakCytho wrote:
eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.


Okay, is there a tutorial where I can learn the underlying data structure to get an idea of what's possible?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:59 am

yeti_c wrote:Another thought I had - Spies could perhaps bombard the tech trees too!?

Problem with that - is that you could grab the opposing spy - and bombard your tech tree - which can reduce the amount of research you can do.

C>


Interesting concept. I don't want to make the map too complicated for a version 1. But it is something to be taken into account. I will add it as an optional feature in the first post.

How do you envision it? Like a "spy" tech that allow you to bombard other players techs? Or as a territory in the map?
Last edited by OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:00 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
eigenvector wrote:Okay, here are two simple ideas:

Airlift: the ability to fortify anywhere on the map.

Colour blind: you can use your cards as if they were any colour.


Neither of those are possible without changing the game engine - the first might be possible with a new XML feature, but I don't think so, and the second certainly isn't.

The first is only possible if they can attack the terit as well.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:03 pm

eigenvector wrote:Okay, is there a tutorial where I can learn the underlying data structure to get an idea of what's possible?


You can look here viewtopic.php?t=23382
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:14 pm

Thanks everybody for the support and the ideas. I will keep the thread during a few days or maybe even 2 or 3 weeks to mature the idea and also to document myself about the proper process to prepare a map. And after that, will open the map thread.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:31 am

Excellent stuff.

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby MrBenn on Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:50 am

I have just read and re-read the whole of this thread; I think you have an extremely good and creative idea here ;-)

Once you've got a bit more flesh to your thoughts, continue using this thread for your development; once you have a draft the whole thread can be moved into the drafting room ;-)

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop.

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:20 pm

MrBenn wrote:I have just read and re-read the whole of this thread; I think you have an extremely good and creative idea here ;-)

Once you've got a bit more flesh to your thoughts, continue using this thread for your development; once you have a draft the whole thread can be moved into the drafting room ;-)

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop.

Mr B


Thanks MrBenn. I appreciate your support :-)

The initial idea is being developed right now, even if I didn't post anything in the last few days. Once there is something that you all can see, I will post the news in this thread. So stay tuned ;-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:44 pm

One tech could be researching Esponage (sp?), like in the game where you can research it, [because trigger boarders arent allowed] this could be a boarder and THE ONLY boarder to a spy or several spies, and this could be able to bombard a city or other techs?
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:49 pm

t-o-m wrote:One tech could be researching Esponage (sp?), like in the game where you can research it, [because trigger boarders arent allowed] this could be a boarder and THE ONLY boarder to a spy or several spies, and this could be able to bombard a city or other techs?


Unfortunately (and unless I am wrong of course ;-) ) borders (neither normal borders nor bombard borders) cannot be triggered by any action. So the borders that we put in the map have to stay all the game.

I think that your idea is in fact two different ideas, that can be treated separately.

Spies: We can have a place in the geographical map or a technology (we should decide where it makes more sense) that allows to bombard other players technologies. This would be interpreted as the player puting the money in spies rather than in armies.
The effect would be that the victim player would lose the effect of the bombarded technology for the next turn. But he could easily regain it by attacking the single neutral that would appear in that tech.
In my opinion, that effect is perfect. A player can disrupt other player's tech using spies, but cannot make permanent damage.

Bombs: One technology could be bombs. Just like the famous V-2 bombs that were used at the end of WWII to bombard London from Germany. It would allow the player to bombard the map from the technology itself. It would be interpreted as the player puting the money in missile bombs rather than in conventional armies, science, or spies.
Basic bombs would allow the player to bombard his own country, and advanced bombs would allow the player to bombard any part of the full map. Of course, such technology should be expensive!

Both of these technologies add additional strategical options. When a player places reinforcement at the begining of the turn, he can:
- Invest in military, deploying conventional armies, in the geographical map
- Invest in research, deploying in the la
- Invest in spionage, deploying in the Spies technology
- Invest in contra-espionage, deploying in any discovered technology to protect it from enemies spies
- Invest in bombs, deploying in the bomb technologie/s
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby Emperor_Metalman on Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:33 pm

Good idea. There should be a version of the classic map with research.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby mibi on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:46 pm

Nice, avatar.

And the idea is a good one too. In my Trojan War map i tried to have each god have a special ability instead of just a plain bonus. This could be a function of the research as well. different abilities. Espionage can see the whole map for foggy games, Flight can attack certain places on the map like airports would. Armour would autodeploy 1 on all your territs. You get the idea.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:29 am

Emperor_Metalman wrote:Good idea. There should be a version of the classic map with research.


Thanks for your comments, Emperor Metalman :-)

Unfortunately (and again, unless I am wrong) with the current XML there cannot be a version of the classic map with research. The reason is that this kind of game needs starting positions. Then in order to make a research version of the starting map, we should find 8 starting positions in that map.

Anyway, good idea. Maybe it can be done a bit later :-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:32 am

mibi wrote:Nice, avatar.

And the idea is a good one too. In my Trojan War map i tried to have each god have a special ability instead of just a plain bonus. This could be a function of the research as well. different abilities. Espionage can see the whole map for foggy games, Flight can attack certain places on the map like airports would. Armour would autodeploy 1 on all your territs. You get the idea.


Thanks for your comments mibi.

With the current XML, seeing all map in FoG means being able to bombard the full map. Not exactly the same :-( I have seen in the XML suggestions thread that there is the suggestion for observation points. If this suggestion was implemented we would be able to add the tech you suggested.

The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(

Anyway, very nice suggestions. I apreciate them :-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:25 am

OliverFA wrote:The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(


Correct - although again there is a suggestion pending on this that could work. (in fact Mibi needs it for his Trench Warfare map.)

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:56 am

yeti_c wrote:
OliverFA wrote:The same with autodeploy. Autodeploy is per territory, and for that reason cannot be triggered by a tech. :-(


Correct - although again there is a suggestion pending on this that could work. (in fact Mibi needs it for his Trench Warfare map.)

C.


Thanks for the confirmation Yeti ;-)

Anyway, I am determined to make this map with what we have right now. If the map is a success, there is always time to make a version 2 with the new features.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby saraith on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:04 am

This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:12 am

saraith wrote:This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.


Regardless - Civ 4 is one of the best games ever made (closly followed by Civ 3 and Civ 1 (I never played Civ 2 - But I heard that was pretty good too!)

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:07 am

yeti_c wrote:
saraith wrote:This sounds like a really interesting concept, Oliver. It makes me want to go and get Civilization so I can have a clue as to what you're talking about ;)

I, for one, will be keeping a close eye on this thread, though.


Regardless - Civ 4 is one of the best games ever made (closly followed by Civ 3 and Civ 1 (I never played Civ 2 - But I heard that was pretty good too!)

C.


And don't forget Civilization Revolution! I take my DS always with me when I go out of home only to play CivRev!

Thanks for the comment, Saraith. Definitely you should try Civ. You would enjoy it.
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