[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: New concept: Research

Postby max is gr8 on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:28 am

New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest

Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Also, OliverFA please can you sort this out soon (just the bare bones not the map) I want to use it for a tournament...
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:00 pm

max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest


Not possible to do currently.

max is gr8 wrote:Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Not sure I like it, but it's a viable option.

max is gr8 wrote:Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Not a good idea. Player A could attack all of player B's techs and leave him stranded on the geographical map, unable to research any techs. Then player A could take B's reinforcement techs and recieve a larger bonus than player C, for example. I suppose this could be part of a grand strategy, but I'm against it. Players should only be able to bombard each other's techs, not outright steal them.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby t-o-m on Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:09 pm

A cool feature could be a culture meter, lol.

The higher you get the meter the higher people will be converted - (or it could just give an auto-deploy bonus around on your territs, but not currently possible in xml)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:05 pm

max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest

Basic Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Can Bombard These)
Advanced Counter Intelligence - Bombards Spies (Spies Cannot Bombard These)

Basic Tech Theft - Can attack basic techs
Adv Tech Theft - Can attack adv techs (Not Win Condition)

Also, OliverFA please can you sort this out soon (just the bare bones not the map) I want to use it for a tournament...


Thanks for the new techs suggestions Max :-)

I like the one about counter intelligence a lot! Not that I dislike the others, but the one about Counter Intelligence seems to fit very well in our design.

What do you think about the possibility of, instead of having four techs (Basic and Adv Sabotage, plus Basic and advanced counter intelligence) compacting all of them in two? Basic spy would be saboutage, and advanced spy would be counter intelligence.

The one about political unrest is very difficult to implement with the current engine. Not impossible, but very difficult... Nice idea anyway.

Tech stealing, I don't think is so nice idea. The problem is that the way technologies will be implemented, stealing a tech would add the effects from the enemy tech to your own. And that is not how it is supposed to be.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I really like the one about counter intelligence, to use it as "Andvanced Spies" :-)

About having it sorted... Don't know exactly what you mean with the bare bones. As you see, I am working in this (I updated the main post today) and the map is also being made by my co-author, who wishes to remain anonimous for the moment ;-)

For the version 1, I will work with only the 8 initial techs. If I finish the XML soon enough, I could add some of the other techs. If not, there can always be a version 2 of this map with the added techs. ;-)
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:08 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
max is gr8 wrote:New Tech Ideas (Ordered Basic Then Advanced of these Items)

Political Unrest - Once researched gives a negative bonus to all other players (Maybe negates basic reinforcements)
Counter Political Unrest - Negates the effect of Political Unrest


Not possible to do currently.

This just gave me a possible idea.

We could implement that political unrest if player loses the capital. But maybe, if the player loses the capital he is losing the game anyway, and there is no need to add an extra malus to the poor player. I will add it as a possibility, and ask you about it once we have the map.
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Re: New concept: Research

Postby OliverFA on Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:09 pm

t-o-m wrote:A cool feature could be a culture meter, lol.

The higher you get the meter the higher people will be converted - (or it could just give an auto-deploy bonus around on your territs, but not currently possible in xml)


yes, it would be a cool feature :-) But it's difficult to implement right now :-(
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:43 pm

We have an image draft!

Image

The map co-author did it. I trully believe it is great. But of course there is a small chance that I could be biassed ;-) so I would like to know your opinion about it. :-)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:49 pm

It's a very nice start, but many of the territories are too small to fit both a name (or number) and the armies.
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby Androidz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm

OliverFA wrote:We have an image draft!

Image

The map co-author did it. I trully believe it is great. But of course there is a small chance that I could be biassed ;-) so I would like to know your opinion about it. :-)


I love it but now it just straith with resarch nothing to choose between:(
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:51 pm

A very good draft, although as we've already discussed there will be some issues with the playable map names etc.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... [moved to Drafting Room] ;-)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby t-o-m on Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:54 pm

MrBenn wrote:A very good draft, although as we've already discussed there will be some issues with the playable map names etc.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... [moved to Drafting Room] ;-)

Map ideas is above drafting room...so its moving down!
hehe

ZeakCytho wrote:It's a very nice start, but many of the territories are too small to fit both a name (or number) and the armies.

Maybe if oliver numbered the territs instead of naming them, maybe that could help?
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:19 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:It's a very nice start, but many of the territories are too small to fit both a name (or number) and the armies.


Yes, you are right. The map looks quite crowded with so many territories. That is one of the reasons why it is being made public, to receive the help from everybody in the foundry and see what can we do with it.

There is one thing that we know for sure, and it is that we need to have many territories, because otherwise the game will be over before the research is finished, and there will be no point researching. But of course that clashes with the issue of placing armies numbers and territories names.

Acording to the documentation, the map can still be made bigger. But the problem would be that it would be needed to use the scroll bar in lower resolutions. Would that kind of map justify an scroll bar? I don't know.

And thanks for the comments :-)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:23 pm

Androidz wrote:I love it but now it just straith with resarch nothing to choose between:(


We are having 8 techs for sure:

- Research boost
- Winning tech (possibly renamed as "the bomb")
- Basic and Advanced Continents
- Basic and Advanced minimum reinforcements
- Basic and Advanced territories.

The tech tree is that one:

Code: Select all
Lab ----> Research Boost --------> Winning Tech
      |
      +-> Basic Reinforcements --> Advanced Reinforcements
      |
      +-> Basic Continents ------> Advanced Continents
      |
      +-> Basic Territories -----> Advanced Territories


If we add more techs (possibly spy techs and bombard techs) they will follow the same pattern. The basic tech will be able to be researched right from the lab, and the advanced tech will require the basic tech.

Thanks for noticing about the techs, Androidz ;-)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:27 pm

MrBenn wrote:A very good draft, although as we've already discussed there will be some issues with the playable map names etc.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... [moved to Drafting Room] ;-)


Thanks! But the credit is for the map maker ;-)

About the names, as I told ZeakCytho, I think we all agree that we need many territories so research can have some sense. And we also agree that this creates an issue with naming the territories. Possibly solutions might be:
- Name the territories with numbers and place a smaller map with the region names, like the Feudal map.
- Name also the territories with numbers, but place the names in the region themselves, like the New World map
- Make the map bigger even if that means we will have to use scroll bars (this option could be complementary to any of the other two)
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:29 pm

t-o-m wrote:
MrBenn wrote:A very good draft, although as we've already discussed there will be some issues with the playable map names etc.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... [moved to Drafting Room] ;-)

Map ideas is above drafting room...so its moving down!
hehe


So our goal is to arrive to the bottom. Cool! :-D

t-o-m wrote:
ZeakCytho wrote:It's a very nice start, but many of the territories are too small to fit both a name (or number) and the armies.

Maybe if oliver numbered the territs instead of naming them, maybe that could help?


Yes, I think that could help, and looks like the only viable option. There is the issue about how/where to place the region names.

Thanks for your comments :-)
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby t-o-m on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:33 pm

One way to get people researching could be to add a moderate decay on the land, like a -5 per turn, so people would get researching to get more armies to make it out...maybe?
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby Androidz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:35 pm

Oh yeah forgot to say, i really liked your idea about doubleing the continent bonus and such. But with a map without continent that might be a bit hard so you've dropped it?
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:03 pm

t-o-m wrote:One way to get people researching could be to add a moderate decay on the land, like a -5 per turn, so people would get researching to get more armies to make it out...maybe?


In my opinion the tech effects are enough motivation by themselves. "Oh! If I research it I will have many more armies each turn to kill my opponents!" or "If I research this I can bombard them!" and so on.

Plus you know, there are too many maps out there that have this decay thing, so it's not very original nowadays ;-)
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby OliverFA on Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:04 pm

Androidz wrote:Oh yeah forgot to say, i really liked your idea about doubleing the continent bonus and such. But with a map without continent that might be a bit hard so you've dropped it?


The continents are there. We just need to define them ;-)

And by the way, probably we also need to decide some additional obstacles (not much, just a few), to make the map not so open.
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby Androidz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:07 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Androidz wrote:Oh yeah forgot to say, i really liked your idea about doubleing the continent bonus and such. But with a map without continent that might be a bit hard so you've dropped it?


The continents are there. We just need to define them ;-)

And by the way, probably we also need to decide some additional obstacles (not much, just a few), to make the map not so open.


k:P

do not quite follow you:P my english is bad:P
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Re: "New Concept: Research [V1 P1 & 5]"

Postby yeti_c on Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:53 am

OliverFA wrote:The tech tree is that one:

Code: Select all
Lab ----> Research Boost --------> Winning Tech
      |
      +-> Basic Reinforcements --> Advanced Reinforcements
      |
      +-> Basic Continents ------> Advanced Continents
      |
      +-> Basic Territories -----> Advanced Territories



I think you're going to struggle to get this explanation into the map.

Unless you redesign either a) the tree, or b) the table.

Consider Something a bit like this maybe?

Code: Select all
[             labatory A           ] [             labatory B           ]
[ basic ][ basic ][ basic ][ boost ] [ basic ][ basic ][ basic ][ boost ]
[  adv  ][  adv  ][  adv  ][  win  ] [  adv  ][  adv  ][  adv  ][  win  ]

[  adv  ][  adv  ][  adv  ][  win  ] [  adv  ][  adv  ][  adv  ][  win  ]
[ basic ][ basic ][ basic ][ boost ] [ basic ][ basic ][ basic ][ boost ]
[             labatory C           ] [             labatory D           ]



C.
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby t-o-m on Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:29 am

Can the lab attack all of its techs?
If so couldnt it say "Your lab can attack any of its techs."
A down side to this would just be that you can get basic reinf. I before basic reinf. II - UNLESS you made i an over ride and made it that you can only get the basic reinf II bonus if you hold basic reinf I...if you follow...
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby OliverFA on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:37 pm

t-o-m wrote:Can the lab attack all of its techs?
If so couldnt it say "Your lab can attack any of its techs."
A down side to this would just be that you can get basic reinf. I before basic reinf. II - UNLESS you made i an over ride and made it that you can only get the basic reinf II bonus if you hold basic reinf I...if you follow...


I would like to try to fit the explanation in the map somehow (for example, in the way that Yeti suggested). BUT if the result is difficult to understand then I suppose that allowing to attack all techs is the lesser evil.

A possible solution would be to say in the explanation something like that:
1 continent tech: +50% bonus
2 continent techs: +100%bonus

The effect would be the same, but we would aovid having to place the tech tree in the map.
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby t-o-m on Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:46 pm

OliverFA wrote:Image

Any comments on neutral values?
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Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
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Re: New Concept: Research (V1 P1 & 5)

Postby yeti_c on Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:47 pm

They look pretty good - not sure about all those 1's in the top right.

C.
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Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
General Achievement (1) Map Contribution (13) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (10)

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