[Vacation - valid until Sept 2013] WWI: Gallipoli

[cairnswk]

Starting positions on land?

OK, I'm gonna need to work this one out - this is the kind of complex gamplay I like.

Tell me more - starting positions? What should I kniw>

In the first post it saysL

"Entente Starting Territories (16)
8 - Battleships
- start with high number and can bombard any marked target. They are killer reducing and should eventually fizzle out to complete neutrals
12 - Invasion Craft
4 invasion craft leading to minesweepers - can be bombarded from Turkish held land positions

Turkish Starting Territories (16)
3 Forts (10 Forts in total - 7 have to be manned/conquered)
13 Land positions"

The big question is what starts neutral (apologies if I'm being stupid here)? I'm guessing everything else is shared out/

Dang DJ. you beat me to it...i was in the final processes of trying to re-work this all out also, and had just finished placing all the possible starts and neutrals on the map and upadting the first page...

As of Version 16....
1. The number of territories currently on the map.

Entente Starting Territories (24)
8 - Battleships
- start with high number and can bombard any marked target. They are killer reducing and should eventually reduce to 1 (at this stage)
13 - Invasion Craft
3 Minesweepers

Turkish Starting Territories (16)
8 terrs on the east side of the Dardanelles (includes 2 Forts - represents the force that had to come from the Capital constantinople after the invasion started).
8 terrs on the western peninsula (includes 3 forts)

Other Territories (59)
3 Mines
3 (M) Mines sweepers
6 Land Terrs east of the Dardanelles (includes 1 landing beach)
44 Peninsula terrs west of the Dardanelles (includes 12 landing beaches)

Total Territories
99.

Anyway below is my idea for the starts.

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

Version 17.
Some changes underway....
1. I've reduced the forts on the Dardanelles to 8, and given them extra emphasis by the addition of the spotlights patrolling...
2. Added are the cliffs and terrains along the Dardanelles
3. I've started converting the mountains and ridges into bitmpa images for more realistic enhancment.

This version is also an export in CMYK, it's much darker than the previous RGB version, but i think more realistic towards the dawn darkness.

Click image to enlarge.

[DJ Teflon]

OK - this is just a first impression - without thinking potential moves and tactics in great depth:

I would anticipate that you may get the general comment that the starting positions need to be relatively fair for different numbers of players. You have battleships, landing craft and land starts for 8 players. With a different number of players - wouldn't the unused starts be shared-out amongst the players?

It would be great if the xml enabled different starts to be coded for different numbers of players. Its a change I would like to see + and would help many potential maps.

Anyway, let's stick with the 8-player scenario, assuming the above can be overcome (or I've got it wrong):

The battleships idea is totally innovative. I'm guessing they cant attack, only bombard. Brilliant.

3 of the landing craft have nightmare scenarios - attack mines and subject to bombardment from the forts.

Similarly, some of the land starts can be bombarded whilst others are safe - I'd suggest all land starts start safe and have an adjacent 'safe' territory to give players an early-game option to start building? Similarly, in the south of the map, the starts nearest crossing points are more advantageous. There look to be 13 - I'd suggest having 2 or 3 in the southern area - preferably 2 close to the landing points - those on the mainland I would suggest they are spaced apart from each other as much as possible and are relatively similar (i,e. not bombardable and away from the forts).

In general, as well as the battleships gameplay - I like the landing craft idea which is balanced by the land starts being away from the beaches.

I think the first thing to think about would be the landing craft in the straight.

I can feel in my bones that this is gonna be a winner

[whitestazn88]

hey cairns, its me here for the preliminary review. i have only touched upon this map once or twice, but i like the way it looks. and the gameplay looks awesome. both seem similar to pearl harbor, a personal favorite of mine, although i'm not very good at it lol. i would move this on but there are 2 things that i would change, although you obviously don't have to as the cartographer

-the left side of the map seems a little dim, and the territory names get a little hazy because of that, maybe brighten the territ names or the map overall on that side to make the contrast higher so we can find the names easier
- the beach territories, rather than having a smidgen of sand, should be completely white i think, that would make it really obvious and clear.

otherwise, it looks great. good work on another solid map mate.

[dolomite13]

What does L9 connect to? ... the line hits the border between B and C.

Can forts bombard all sea territs in both dardanels and narrows? or do some forts bombard one and some bombard the other? how is this defined? on the map?

Great Map =)

==D

[cairnswk]

OK - this is just a first impression - without thinking potential moves and tactics in great depth:

I would anticipate that you may get the general comment that the starting positions need to be relatively fair for different numbers of players. You have battleships, landing craft and land starts for 8 players. With a different number of players - wouldn't the unused starts be shared-out amongst the players?
It would be great if the xml enabled different starts to be coded for different numbers of players. Its a change I would like to see + and would help many potential maps.

Yes these starts are shared out amongst the players in any game, there are 40 starting terts - 24 sea (includes 8 battleships) and 16 land. IN the xml , one has to specify what terts are starters. the xml idea would be good, perhaps suggest it.

Anyway, let's stick with the 8-player scenario, assuming the above can be overcome (or I've got it wrong):
The battleships idea is totally innovative. I'm guessing they cant attack, only bombard. Brilliant.

Correct.

3 of the landing craft have nightmare scenarios - attack mines and subject to bombardment from the forts.

yes i relaise that, but that is in line with the real battle. I can't really fit 8 in there, it would be too crowded.

Similarly, some of the land starts can be bombarded whilst others are safe - I'd suggest all land starts start safe and have an adjacent 'safe' territory to give players an early-game option to start building?

Similarly, in the south of the map, the starts nearest crossing points are more advantageous. There look to be 13 - I'd suggest having 2 or 3 in the southern area - preferably 2 close to the landing points - those on the mainland I would suggest they are spaced apart from each other as much as possible and are relatively similar (i,e. not bombardable and away from the forts).

Well the whole idea of using the battleships is to have some occupied terts and some un-occupied terts begin bombarded. This gives one an opportunity to whittle down you enemy a bit, as well as destroy some neutrals on terts that are strategic points for landing. I'll ensure that i do something to make everything as even as possible.

In general, as well as the battleships gameplay - I like the landing craft idea which is balanced by the land starts being away from the beaches.
I think the first thing to think about would be the landing craft in the straight.

ONce again, reality with what happened.

I can feel in my bones that this is gonna be a winner

let's hope so!

[cairnswk]

hey cairns, its me here for the preliminary review....i would move this on but there are 2 things that i would change, although you obviously don't have to as the cartographer
-the left side of the map seems a little dim, and the territory names get a little hazy because of that, maybe brighten the territ names or the map overall on that side to make the contrast higher so we can find the names easier
- the beach territories, rather than having a smidgen of sand, should be completely white i think, that would make it really obvious and clear.
otherwise, it looks great. good work on another solid map mate.

left side being dim is representative of the attack at down. I will try ot make the tert names as clear as possible.
i'd prefer to keep the small areas of beach as are, i think the map would be overpowered if one were to make those beach terts white or snady coloured, and it is mentioned well in the legend.

[cairnswk]

What does L9 connect to? ... the line hits the border between B and C.

C beach, i'll fix that.

Can forts bombard all sea territs in both dardanels and narrows? or do some forts bombard one and some bombard the other? how is this defined? on the map?...

I've been thinking about that and it will be in the legend that only the terts in front or in close proximity with be bombardable from forts each side of the sea.

[cairnswk]

....
Can forts bombard all sea territs in both dardanels and narrows? or do some forts bombard one and some bombard the other? how is this defined? on the map?

OK, it occured to me that the forts in front of the mine positions became redundant because the sea mines reverting to neutral each round.
So I have moved the sea mines out of the sight of forts and created three more Mine Sweeper "safe" type places where the mine sweepers can be bombarded from the forts.
With this there is good element of "running the gauntlet" in there.

[cairnswk]

Version 18 has those new terts on the Dardanelles and the legend adjustment for the Forts.

[captainwalrus]

The imige doesn't show up for some reason. This happened with the last version too, but it didn't seem to happen for anyone else.

[cairnswk]

The imige doesn't show up for some reason. This happened with the last version too, but it didn't seem to happen for anyone else.

Did you try to f5?

[cairnswk]

In version 18, the fort bombardments are as follows:
* F4 & F5 bombard MS1, MS2, MS3
* F3 & F6 bombard MS4, MS5
* F2 & F7 bombard MS6, MS7
* F1 & F8 bombard MS8, MS9

[the.killing.44]

Mmm…cairns it looks like with the battleships we'll be headed down the Das Schloß route, seeing how the battleships cannot be attacked and only bombard. Thus, the only way to win is by the (very hard) objective — even harder in an assassin game. So perhaps if there would be a way to have some coastline territories bombard the battleships?

.44

[cairnswk]

Mmm…cairns it looks like with the battleships we'll be headed down the Das Schloß route, seeing how the battleships cannot be attacked and only bombard. Thus, the only way to win is by the (very hard) objective — even harder in an assassin game. So perhaps if there would be a way to have some coastline territories bombard the battleships?

.44

Yes i'm looking into that to see if there were any turksih defences that had that capability.