XML Suggestions and Modifications II

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:47 pm

TaCktiX wrote:
ender516 wrote:That could be important in games with losing conditions.


By george you're right. R&C will be absolutely retarded in Nuclear, as people can nuke away researches.


I never thought about that. Heck, nevermind researches, people could just nuke the one capital someone owns in a 4-6 player game. I think unnukable territories would be a really good thing, but I doubt it's gonna be implemented in time for R&C. Hopefully it'll be around once the second R&C map is made, presuming it gets done.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby MrBenn on Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:51 pm

nukes add a bit of variety to maps with losing conditions, that's for sure... I was playing a doubles nukes game with nobodies80 on Middle Ages, and had some very fortuitous cards while on a cashing-in extravaganza (which normally only happen in escalating)!
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Perhaps lack should just plain add a rule in the game engine that territories that are part of losing conditions don't get given out as cards in nuclear games...
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Riskismy on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:30 pm

natty_dread wrote:Perhaps lack should just plain add a rule in the game engine that territories that are part of losing conditions don't get given out as cards in nuclear games...


Sounds like an easy fix. Got my vote.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:16 pm

Suggestion: Neutral-Connected Bonus

Description: Basically, receive a bonus of X if Territory Y is neutral.

Why It Should Be Considered: Firstly, I thought of it to be a way of getting players to move outside of potentially "comfortable" starting positions. For example, the other players' bonuses could be connected to the territory (we'll call this "Territory W") just outside of your "comfort zone". Such as, if Territory W is neutral, than your opponents' bonuses are active.

In addition, this adds a fantastic ability to killer neutrals. Suppose Territory Z is killer neutral, and suppose your bonus is dependent on Territory Z's being neutral. An opponent can sweep in and take the neutral to break you - but only for a turn. This might be nice for easily defensible coastal bonus areas - have a connected (relatively high) killer neutral in the center.

I realize this is a rather odd suggestion but I nonetheless think it would be a great asset and open up many doors in CC mapmaking.
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Re: XML Tutorial

Postby random num2 on Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:01 pm

Perhaps we could create even more interesting maps by adding a possible "Defense bonus" tag to the territory. Theoretically, the territory would have a defense bonus due to natural defenses or height.
Just an idea. :D
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby theBastard on Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:32 pm

nothing new, it was in debate here, but how it looks with conditional autodeploys? this could be something what can balance gameplay - we have much conditions for manual deploy (also negative) but no one for autodeploy.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:23 pm

I'm not sure if conditional autodeploys are going to be part of the new XML updates that are coming as the next site update. I hope they are, as they would add a lot to the site and should be easy enough to code in. If they're not part of the XML update this time around, then I wouldnt' hold your breath as based on current track records it may be another 2-3 years before they have another shot at making it in.

I have hopes that all of the long awaited basic features that have been discussed for a while (Conditional AutoDeploys, Decay to Neutral, and the fog ones being the main ones with conditional borders being a hopeful) will be implemented, but I don't know that any of them will be for sure.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:37 am

Abandon all hope ye who enter here...
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby ender516 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:57 am

Gee, he takes off the blue suede shoes and he gets all cynical. ;)
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby TaCktiX on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:46 am

It's a cynicism born of long experience, the worst kind. ;)
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby OliverFA on Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:42 pm

Maybe we can abandon hope... just to look for A New Hope ;)
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby zimmah on Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:28 pm

MrBenn wrote:Abandon all hope ye who enter here...


there's so many great suggestions here. but don't think most of them will ever get updated into the website, unfortunatly.

a few years ago at least SOME updates got through.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby OliverFA on Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:00 pm

zimmah wrote:
MrBenn wrote:Abandon all hope ye who enter here...


there's so many great suggestions here. but don't think most of them will ever get updated into the website, unfortunatly.

a few years ago at least SOME updates got through.


As I just said in the Research & Conquer thread... I have Hope that some important investor will bring a lot of cash to CC so the site can hire a legion of web programmers. Why not? could happen! ;)
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby DiM on Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:45 pm

OliverFA wrote:
zimmah wrote:
MrBenn wrote:Abandon all hope ye who enter here...


there's so many great suggestions here. but don't think most of them will ever get updated into the website, unfortunatly.

a few years ago at least SOME updates got through.


As I just said in the Research & Conquer thread... I have Hope that some important investor will bring a lot of cash to CC so the site can hire a legion of web programmers. Why not? could happen! ;)


look there. over there... it's a pig. and it's flying!!! :mrgreen:
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Here's another good reason for group / team starting positions:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3451098#p3451098
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Oneyed on Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:27 am

there are some great ideas which would bring new possibilities to map makers. when I´ve read "XML Modifications and Variations" I saw that many of ideas are quite old. how works adding new things to XML?
I ask because I work on map where Conditional Autodeploys and Conditional Borders are what would a little help me to make map more interesting and also for historic accuracy.

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby natty dread on Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:33 am

XML updates come when they come, ie. not very often. In fact every time the XML gets even a minor update is considered a major event of celebration and feasting.

Do what you can with the current XML. If you start waiting for XML updates, it can become a long wait.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby ender516 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:29 am

Sadly, natty is correct. XML updates can only be made by the owner of the site, known to us as lackattack. We all hope that in the near future, he will hire an assistant programmer to speed up changes of this type.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:05 am

thanks for replays, guys.

happy new year and all the best :)

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:20 am

this post is out off XML theme, so sorry for posting it here :)

why is necessary to have two sizes of map? I think the biggest problem is to have enough clear space in regions for numbers. so when there would be only one size (840x800) there will be enough place, because the numbers have the same size for small map and for large one too.
also on the large map is more place for everything, for map makers it would be also more easy to do only on one map where everything is fit. now if map maker work on large version, everything looks fine and then he make small map sometimes he must reduce things.
and at least maybe there will be less supersizes appeals. ;)

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:56 am

All mapmakers have to make 2 sizes of their maps, and no one has had a problem with it so far.

People have different sized monitors. Some like playing on small maps, some on large. We mapmakers provide a service for the players, so we have to consider their interests first.
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby zimmah on Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:10 am

MrBenn wrote:One of the reasons for starting a new thread, was that I spent a long time reading through the old ones, before forwarding the best of the suggestions to lackattack.

I'll copy those here for reference - none of these features are currently available, and there is no guarantee that any of these will be implemented. The example XML that has been cited is for reference only, and is only there to give an indication for possible implementation of the suggestion. It should not be confused with anything that is currently available.

MrBenn wrote:Conditional Autodeploys
The tag for autodeploy is currently a <bonus> tag within the <territory> collection. It would make more sense (and add more versatility) to add a conditional autodeploy to the <continent> collection.

Code: Select all
<continent>
   <name>Oceania</name>
   <bonus>0</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Indonesia</territory>
      <territory>New Guinea</territory>
      <territory>Western Australia</territory>
      <territory>Eastern Australia</territory>
   </components>
   <autodeploy=”2”>Indonesia</autodeploy>
   <autodeploy=”-1”>Eastern Australia</autodeploy>
</continent>





Killer Neutral Tweak
**NOTE: There is a known bug when players are eliminated by a killer neutral – it may be worth resolving this!

There have been requests to update the killer neutral code to allow for the neutral to respawn/reset to a different value.

Description: At the moment you can have
<neutral>2</neutral>
or
<neutral killer="yes">5</neutral>

The Maze Craze map requires this to be tweaked slightly... could we change to?
<neutral killer="5">2</neutral>
So the neutral initialises with 2 but when captured it returns to 5.

Alternatively add a separate <neutral reset> tag, which could be used with the neutral killer, or proposed decay?

Decay to Neutral
Negative autodeploy currently stops when a territory has a single army on it. With killer neutrals, a precedent has been set for territories to revert to neutral, and so it would be logical to extend the behaviour of decaying territories. However, in order to maintain backwards-compatibility, I would suggest the addition of a <decay> tag:

Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>No Mans Land</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Dalhart</border>
      <border>Clayton</border>
      <border>Boise City</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>90</smallx>
      <smally>90</smally>
      <largex>200</largex>
      <largey>111</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <bonus>-1</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>No Mans Land</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Dalhart</border>
      <border>Clayton</border>
      <border>Boise City</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>90</smallx>
      <smally>90</smally>
      <largex>200</largex>
      <largey>111</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <decay>1</decay>
</territory>


Conditional Borders
Previously (and frequently) referred to as Dynamic Borders, conditional borders have been mentioned a number of times under various guises. Their addition would open up Conquer Club to a whole new level of strategy, and further differentiate from the well-known Hasbro clone ;-)
Previous suggestions have incorporated multiple map images, although this could initially be done within a single static image: a 'green key territory' could be used to open attack routes through 'green doors'... hold a ladder/rope to climb/descend... etc. etc.
The below example is an idea of how it could be implemented - continents have been included for versatility.

Code: Select all
   <territory>
      <name>Door</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Hallway</border>
         <conditionalborder>
            <required territory>Key</required territory>
            <required continent>Guardhouse</required continent>
            <border>Drawbridge</border>
            <bombardment>Moat</bombardment>
         </conditionalborder>
      </borders>
   </territory>


Permanent Visibles
There have been murmurs of approval for some sort of sentry/scout/lookout post territories for use in foggy games – territories that can see through the fog, without the ability to attack.
Note: Visibles could theoretically be included in conditional borders (above)

Code: Select all
   <territory>
      <name>Lookout Post</name>
      <borders>
         <border>Inner Wall</border>
         <border>Outer Wall</border>
         <visible>Over The Hill</visible>
         <visible>Far Away</visible>
   </territory>


Perma-fog
The antithesis to the lookout post/permanent visibles, would be permanent fog (for non-adjacent territories)
Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>No Mans Land</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Dalhart</border>
      <border>Clayton</border>
      <border>Boise City</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>90</smallx>
      <smally>90</smally>
      <largex>200</largex>
      <largey>111</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <bonus>-1</bonus>
   <permafog>True</permafog>
</territory>


Grouped Starting Positions
If there was any way of assigning starting positions to teams, then that would be a very welcome addition. Rather than specifiying positions for particular players, is there any way that the starting positions could be grouped so that groups of positions will be given to the same team… The maximum number of teams in a game is 4 (4x doubles), so perhaps <group> tags could be added each position – and then each player will be assigned positions corresponding with their teammates – but you could keep it randomised so that team 1 would not necessarily be allocated group 1...
If there are more teams than groups, then the start positions should be ignored. Equally, if there are less teams than groups, then each team could be given two positions (ie if there are 4 coded groups in a quads game, then Team 1 (red, green, blue, yellow) would receive two groups, with team 2 receiving the other.

Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Britain</territory>
      <group>1</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>France</territory>
      <group>1</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Holland</territory>
      <group>1</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Spain</territory>
      <group>1</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Portugal</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Inuit Homeland</territory>
      <group>2</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Comanche Homeland</territory>
      <group>2</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Aztec Homeland</territory>
      <group>2</group>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Mapuche Homeland</territory>
      <group>2</group>
   </position>
</positions>


Default Starting Position
It would be nice if you could select a single starting position that would always be allocated – ie. In a Humans v Aliens map, with 7 different species of alien, you could ensure that somebody would represent Humans in every game…
Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Humans</territory>
      <default>True</team>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Ewoks</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Vulcans</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


Objectives Tweak
Amend objectives to include <continent> tags as well as <territory> tags. This would allow for more flexibility of objectives (such as “Control 60% of the board.”)

Starting Bonus Override/Delay
One of the things that we have become semi-obsessional over with maps, is to reduce the probability of the first player receiving (large) bonuses. In order to help mitigate the luck of the drop – and to try and add more balance to the game, it would be nice to be able to specify bonuses to be ignored during round 1 (or possibly to be reshuffled in the same way as when an objective is held on the drop)

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>
   <title>Classic</title>
   <smallwidth>600</smallwidth>
   <smallheight>325</smallheight>
   <largewidth>800</largewidth>
   <largeheight>433</largeheight>
   <filetype>jpg</filetype>

   <delaybonus>
      <continent>South America</continent>
      <continent>Oceania</continent>
   </delaybonus>
 


Game Start Message
Just a simple xml tag to define a message posted to chat or the game log at the start of every game on that map.

Mostly for storytelling or "setting the mood"

Would need standards set - under x number of characters, yes/no to "map created by", "Beware the prison of Alcatraz for you shall never escape it" is a gameplay tip but in character so to speak where "Alcatraz has no outward borders" is just an explanation - which, if either is acceptable, etc etc etc.

Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>
   <title>Classic</title>
   <smallwidth>600</smallwidth>
   <smallheight>325</smallheight>
   <largewidth>800</largewidth>
   <largeheight>433</largeheight>
   <filetype>jpg</filetype>

   <startmessage>”"Beware the prison of Alcatraz for you shall never escape it."</startmessage>

</map>


this post was made in 2009 and most of those suggestions may be even older, all of there suggestions (and some more) are very good suggestions that will increase the ability to make great maps. yet none of them have been implemented yet. when will those things be implemented?
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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:07 pm

natty_dread wrote:All mapmakers have to make 2 sizes of their maps, and no one has had a problem with it so far.


it´s fine, just it would be easier a little... ;)
natty_dread wrote:People have different sized monitors.


never thought about it from this view :)

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Re: XML Suggestions and Modifications II

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:57 pm

zimmah wrote:this post was made in 2009 and most of those suggestions may be even older, all of there suggestions (and some more) are very good suggestions that will increase the ability to make great maps. yet none of them have been implemented yet. when will those things be implemented?


That depends if we're lucky or not. If we are, then one may be added by Christmas 2013. If we're not, then perhaps by Christmas 2020 we might have one added.

Personally I'm still holding up hope the "end of the world" that was foretold by the Mayans(?) is the date that the site gets all of the quoted suggestions added on the same day :)
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