Beta Bounty!

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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby MrBenn on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:02 pm

1488...
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:27 pm

Unfortunately what happens in a scenario like this is you get a few players (e.g. Mr.Benn's KORT clanmates thebest712 and Rodion) who each set up 40 private quad games on S.Africa (that's 80 in total....games that will most likely never be played and are closed to anyone who wants to join, see 8603180 thru to 8603281).

Pretty dubious tactics.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:51 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Unfortunately what happens in a scenario like this is you get a few players (e.g. Mr.Benn's KORT clanmates thebest712 and Rodion) who each set up 40 private quad games on S.Africa (that's 80 in total....games that will most likely never be played and are closed to anyone who wants to join, see 8603180 thru to 8603281).

Pretty dubious tactics.


I don't see anything wrong in grabbing a rare opportunity through legal methods.

With your logic, I could just as easily say speed Battle Royale games were "unfortunately joined by the few players who refreshed CC's page every second" or that HA's 200th first bounties were "unfortunately taken by those few players that lurked in the thread with F5 pressed for hours".

I'd have created fewer games, but the rules here are not clear, since someone could get game 1885 and then lose it because another game was dropped. To avoid that sort of confusion, we took enough games to overcome a reasonable margin of error.

I can play those games, by the way. I've even sent an invite to you and some of your friends for one of those. ;)
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:23 pm

Sorry, but there's no comparison to someone who casts his net out over 80 private games in the hope of winning premium worth $6.25 to one who manages to join a game set up by someone else, e.g. in Battle Royale or in HA's tourney and goes on to win that game. I thought someone in your profession (underpaid is it?) would obviously spot that.

And thanks for the invites. Obviously we'd rather have chosen our own line-up rather than simply have you select the four highest-ranked players in the clan and cause a rather inequitable points difference, but we'll see how we do.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:51 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Sorry, but there's no comparison to someone who casts his net out over 80 private games in the hope of winning premium worth $6.25 to one who manages to join a game set up by someone else, e.g. in Battle Royale or in HA's tourney and goes on to win that game. I thought someone in your profession (underpaid is it?) would obviously spot that.

And thanks for the invites. Obviously we'd rather have chosen our own line-up rather than simply have you select the four highest-ranked players in the clan and cause a rather inequitable points difference, but we'll see how we do.


The principle is pretty much the same. There's something rare occuring and demand is higher than supply. You wait for the opportunity and take it, be it a bounty game, a speed BR that happens perhaps one day per year, the game 7777777 overall, the game 8000000 overall or game 1885 from MA/SA. The one slight difference is the prize has small monetary value.

I didn't do this for me. I don't mind not getting $6.25 worth of premium, but I know people that would appreciate that a lot. Now I can help 3 other people (4 if I abandon my own spot).

Feel free to pick another line-up. I have 42 other games to fill. ;)
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby DJENRE on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:53 pm

MrBenn wrote:1488...

We get closer... Maybe that will be during the MMK I: Middle Ages tournament
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:56 pm

DJENRE wrote:
MrBenn wrote:1488...

We get closer... Maybe that will be during the MMK I: Middle Ages tournament


:lol:
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:14 pm

The principle's not the same at all, and I guess on this we'll have to differ. You and your clanmate are squeezing people out of the market - in all likelihood a lot of freemiums who would love a chance at winning even just 3 months membership. At least in a BR or HA's tourney they have an equal shot just as anyone else, but with the tactics you've employed you are effectively trying to corner the market.

It just struck me as something that didn't befit your rank, your status (premium) and your profession, but hey ho that's just me I guess. Vive la difference!
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:42 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:The principle's not the same at all, and I guess on this we'll have to differ. You and your clanmate are squeezing people out of the market - in all likelihood a lot of freemiums who would love a chance at winning even just 3 months membership. At least in a BR or HA's tourney they have an equal shot just as anyone else, but with the tactics you've employed you are effectively trying to corner the market.

It just struck me as something that didn't befit your rank, your status (premium) and your profession, but hey ho that's just me I guess. Vive la difference!


Well, I think we will have to agree on disagree on that one. The extention to which one person can use his own rights (like me creating 40+ games, which I can) and eventually affect other people negatively (every fremium that was not online to claim game 1885 as their own) varies by place. The site is, as far as I know, canadian, the foundry head lives in USA/UK (not sure right now), you live in Hong Kong and I live in Brazil. If 4 different people with different cultures were asked about what means should be allowed towards the goal of claiming a specific game number, I'm sure we'd get 4 different answers (just to illustrate, someone could say we'd have to create only one game and pray that it was the right one, someone else could say 5, a third person could say 50, as long as all created games end up being played and a 4th person could say if the site is not coded in a way to prevent it, then it's ok to do it). That said, vive la difference, I suppose.

About status and profession, as I said before, I didn't do this to get premium myself. I'm just waiting for Mr. Benn to confirm which game is the rightful 1885 one so I can invite fremiums and give them the chance. About rank, and this I found particularly odd and interesting, do you really think high brigs/low generals have a specific behavioral tendency? What would that be?

Let me know if you want to change your line-up.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:26 pm

About status and profession, as I said before, I didn't do this to get premium myself. I'm just waiting for Mr. Benn to confirm which game is the rightful 1885 one so I can invite fremiums and give them the chance. About rank, and this I found particularly odd and interesting, do you really think high brigs/low generals have a specific behavioral tendency? What would that be?

Let me know if you want to change your line-up.


OK, so it could be said you are using your privileges to gain an advantage for another (of your choosing). Whichever way you splice it it's still a dubious tactic imo. It will be interesting to see which game does end up being #1885. Hopefully you'll have wasted your time ;)

Re rank - Yes I expect every player who has attained a certain level to be a custodian of the site and set a good example to others. It probably explains why I get pissy at farmers who, for selfish means, besmirch the reputation of many high-rankers who have tried hard to play well and play the game fairly.

Re line-up - Thanks. We'll see if any of the four of us are going to sit it out and I'll let you know who to invite in his place (I'm guessing you can't give out the p/w for fear we'd join all your games!)
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby basic_man2010_20 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:49 pm

1818 currently active and or finished....time to drop all my games waiting for players and join all the ones waiting for players.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:55 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:
About status and profession, as I said before, I didn't do this to get premium myself. I'm just waiting for Mr. Benn to confirm which game is the rightful 1885 one so I can invite fremiums and give them the chance. About rank, and this I found particularly odd and interesting, do you really think high brigs/low generals have a specific behavioral tendency? What would that be?

Let me know if you want to change your line-up.


OK, so it could be said you are using your privileges to gain an advantage for another (of your choosing). Whichever way you splice it it's still a dubious tactic imo. It will be interesting to see which game does end up being #1885. Hopefully you'll have wasted your time ;)

Re rank - Yes I expect every player who has attained a certain level to be a custodian of the site and set a good example to others. It probably explains why I get pissy at farmers who, for selfish means, besmirch the reputation of many high-rankers who have tried hard to play well and play the game fairly.

Re line-up - Thanks. We'll see if any of the four of us are going to sit it out and I'll let you know who to invite in his place (I'm guessing you can't give out the p/w for fear we'd join all your games!)


Re rank - I was just curious to see if you thought there was a relation of causality between (game) success and a certain chivalrous behavior. I've seen instances of (surprisingly, knowledgeable) people thinking that.

Re line-up - that would be a helluva prank! - :lol: - Fact is, though, the password was intended to be so hard to guess that I wouldn't even remember it. I don't.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:10 am

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8614797 - I believe this is now the 1885th game.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:14 pm

Is it the winner of the 1,885th game created, or the winner of the 1,885th game completed? It wasn't really clear and of course there's a world of difference.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Leehar on Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:41 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Is it the winner of the 1,885th game created, or the winner of the 1,885th game completed? It wasn't really clear and of course there's a world of difference.

Created I would assume, I'd think finding the 1885th completed would be a much harder task involving looking at game logs while created is just using game finder to find relevant games on the maps? (and Page 37?)
And obviously it'd become more complex with completed games and people delaying games and what-not if need be.
So it'd basically be a pretty depressing endeavor which I doubt anyone would want to get into..
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:07 pm

Not really mate. Using Game Finder the same way as you've suggested, one only has to click the 'Finished' box to bring up the results. And the 1,885th completed game of either of these two maps would be on p.19 (100 games per page).

This would create a rather competitive, even fun, situation whereby teams may want to hurry or slow down their game depending on where it might fall. Certainly beats just awarding it to the 1,885th game created which could be won either through luck or through devious block booking of games.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:24 pm

I think it means finished, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:58 pm

Leehar wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Is it the winner of the 1,885th game created, or the winner of the 1,885th game completed? It wasn't really clear and of course there's a world of difference.

Created I would assume, I'd think finding the 1885th completed would be a much harder task involving looking at game logs while created is just using game finder to find relevant games on the maps? (and Page 37?)
And obviously it'd become more complex with completed games and people delaying games and what-not if need be.
So it'd basically be a pretty depressing endeavor which I doubt anyone would want to get into..


Page 19, I think. I just looked for the 16th game from bottom to top of that page and found the one I posted.

Chariot of Fire wrote:Not really mate. Using Game Finder the same way as you've suggested, one only has to click the 'Finished' box to bring up the results. And the 1,885th completed game of either of these two maps would be on p.19 (100 games per page).

This would create a rather competitive, even fun, situation whereby teams may want to hurry or slow down their game depending on where it might fall. Certainly beats just awarding it to the 1,885th game created which could be won either through luck or through devious block booking of games.


That could also lead to some people holding players hostage (http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?mode=rules), a forbidden practice.

And the finished box thing is troublesome, if I'm correct as to how it works. By marking finished games and searching, they will order games by the game number (and not finish date), right? That would not be a problem if the moderator responsible for this promotion was diligent, but, as you can see, he's not: this thread was forsaken by him for more than 20 days.
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Leehar on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:09 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Not really mate. Using Game Finder the same way as you've suggested, one only has to click the 'Finished' box to bring up the results. And the 1,885th completed game of either of these two maps would be on p.19 (100 games per page).

Sorry yeah, made my rough estimation on 50 games per page.
But Rodion does make the valid point that Finished Games (and others) sort by initialization, and not completion dates if I see it correctly
Rodion wrote:That would not be a problem if the moderator responsible for this promotion was diligent, but, as you can see, he's not: this thread was forsaken by him for more than 20 days.
Lol, nice and subtle stab, I like :lol:
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby MrBenn on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:30 pm

My heart bleeds...
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:38 pm

I lolled at that last comment too. Nice one.

tbh I don't really care - just thought it needed clarifying. Rodion has a point though re hostage situation (though it's unlikely and even then there's no g'tee it will work). Sounds a bit like a daft Gilgamesh game I was in just recently ;-)
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:14 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:I lolled at that last comment too. Nice one.

tbh I don't really care - just thought it needed clarifying. Rodion has a point though re hostage situation (though it's unlikely and even then there's no g'tee it will work). Sounds a bit like a daft Gilgamesh game I was in just recently ;-)


Nice game, that one! :D

It took a lot of patience and self control on our side to play as cautiously as we did, but we didn't want to run unnecessary risks.

The comment you referred to was not bad in itself, but I find it startling that the mod responsible for the topic outright ignored the myriad of community's questions and appeared with the simple purpose of being a smartass. :roll:
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby Riskismy on Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:37 pm

Rodion wrote:The comment you referred to was not bad in itself, but I find it startling that the mod responsible for the topic outright ignored the myriad of community's questions and appeared with the simple purpose of being a smartass. :roll:


Oh good. It wasn't just me.

I guess mods are human too. Surprising as it is :?
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby MrBenn on Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:44 pm

I was't simply being a smartass - I've been trying to see if there's an easy way to identify which the 1885th completed game was... After my post yesterday I got sidetracked into a discussion about a possible new Draknor map, and various ways of using existing xml for new types of gameplay. I was speaking to lackattack earlier this evening, and got sidetracked into a discussion about a possible new xml update, and forgot to ask him the killer question - which I shall now pose:

Here is the list of completed games on the Middle Ages and South Africa 1885 maps: http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?submit=Search&gs=F&mp=180,181. Is it possible to sort the results in order of when the games were completed?
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Re: Beta Bounty!

Postby ender516 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:04 pm

You might ask the author of BOB to cobble together a variant of the Elimination Summary to find all the "playerx won the game" log entries across all the games in question, which could then be enumerated.
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