Swastikas on CC maps?

Topics that are not maps. Discuss general map making concepts, techniques, contests, etc, here.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:46 am

I thought CC policy was that there should be no swastikas or nazi flags on CC maps, even in historical context. Cairns had to edit it out of his Stalingrad & Das Schloss maps...

So why is this on the Ardennes offensive map?

Click image to enlarge.
image


If it's banned, it should be edited out of this map too. I don't think a "grandfather clause" is a valid argument in a case like this.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13257
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby Riskismy on Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:02 am

That's a moronic rule anyways. Can't hush evil to death.
Image
Lieutenant Riskismy
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Copenhagen
Medals: 10
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:43 am

Way to miss the point completely.

Regardless of the merits of having such a rule, the rule is in place, so if some maps have to follow it, all maps should have to. When taking in account the reasoning for a rule like this, I don't think a "grandfather clause" can apply in this case.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13257
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby greenoaks on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:00 am

if that was the flag of the time then it should stay
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:25 am

greenoaks wrote:if that was the flag of the time then it should stay


You're also missing the point.

For the record, I agree that the usage of the flag should be allowed in historical context, for historical maps. But since CC has made the ruling that a nazi flag is not allowed on maps, then it should be removed from all maps.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13257
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby MrBenn on Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:00 pm

The real reason is that it hadn't been raised a an issue until cairns was working on das schloss; I asked lack for his opinion at the time, and he asked for the alternative german eagle to be used in favour of the swastika, and we have enforced this policy since then. I would have to double check with lack whether he would like the policy enforced retrospectively - if so, then I believe there may be one or two others that would need amending as well...
Image
PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
User avatar
Lieutenant MrBenn
Retired Team Member
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:32 am
Location: Off Duty
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (1) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (15)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:56 pm

MrBenn wrote:The real reason is that it hadn't been raised a an issue until cairns was working on das schloss; I asked lack for his opinion at the time, and he asked for the alternative german eagle to be used in favour of the swastika, and we have enforced this policy since then. I would have to double check with lack whether he would like the policy enforced retrospectively - if so, then I believe there may be one or two others that would need amending as well...


Well, I just think it would be odd if it isn't enforced retrospectively. I mean, if the purpose of the policy is to be considerate/sensitive/politically correct, whatever, then why only ban showing the flag in new maps? Wouldn't the image of the flag be just as offensive in the old maps?

In fact I dare say that if it's not enforced retroactively, it sort of defeats the whole point of the policy...
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13257
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby grifftron on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:08 pm

lol... gl having qwert edit that, remember pelo war?
‹army of nobunaga› me and so many other people including people in your own clan look at you as a joke
User avatar
Major grifftron
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:11 am
Location: Chiang Mai
Medals: 120
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (14)
Clan Achievement (16) Training Achievement (3) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (3)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:14 pm

grifftron wrote:lol... gl having qwert edit that, remember pelo war?


Well, qwert didn't edit his pelo war map, but it got edited anyway... changing a flag is not a big retouch, it can be done pretty smoothly. I suppose the same will apply for other maps that have swastikas, if their makers are no longer active or otherwise unable to change them.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13257
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby grifftron on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:41 pm

natty_dread wrote:
grifftron wrote:lol... gl having qwert edit that, remember pelo war?


Well, qwert didn't edit his pelo war map, but it got edited anyway... changing a flag is not a big retouch, it can be done pretty smoothly. I suppose the same will apply for other maps that have swastikas, if their makers are no longer active or otherwise unable to change them.


I know he didn't change it, MB changed it I thought, but either way, he wouldn't change it, mods would have too.
‹army of nobunaga› me and so many other people including people in your own clan look at you as a joke
User avatar
Major grifftron
SoC Training Adviser
 
Posts: 3189
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:11 am
Location: Chiang Mai
Medals: 120
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (14)
Clan Achievement (16) Training Achievement (3) Map Contribution (1) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (3)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby greenoaks on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:27 pm

natty_dread wrote:
greenoaks wrote:if that was the flag of the time then it should stay


You're also missing the point.

For the record, I agree that the usage of the flag should be allowed in historical context, for historical maps. But since CC has made the ruling that a nazi flag is not allowed on maps, then it should be removed from all maps.

i got the point

i was just making mine that historical context is important, artist fluff is not
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class greenoaks
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:47 am
Medals: 138
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (4)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (14)
Tournament Contribution (34) General Contribution (4)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby squishyg on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:37 pm

Exceptions are made to rules all the time. Are you complaining because you find it offensive or is this just sour grapes, or something of that nature?
Image
Visit CC on Facebook and Twitter!
Robinette wrote:
Kaskavel wrote:Seriously. Who is the female conqueror of CC?

Depends on what metric you use...
The coolest is squishyg
User avatar
Captain squishyg
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Medals: 42
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1) General Contribution (4)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby Serbia on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:41 pm

squishyg wrote:Exceptions are made to rules all the time. Are you complaining because you find it offensive or is this just sour grapes, or something of that nature?


The whole argument sounds like sour grapes to me.
User avatar
Captain Serbia
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 9658
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:10 pm
Location: Detroit/Cleveland
Medals: 80
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (9) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (6)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby Lindax on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:48 pm

Pardon me for butting in, but the Nazi flag is one thing, the swastika symbol is a totally different animal.

I assume you all know that the swastika symbol has been used for thousands of years? And usually not with a negative meaning?

Lx
User avatar
Colonel Lindax
Clan Director
Clan Director
 
Posts: 8616
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:58 pm
Medals: 124
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (29) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (5) Tournament Contribution (31)
General Contribution (8)

Re: Swastikas on CC maps?

Postby squishyg on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:51 pm

Yes, we all know that. Everyone knows that. This is not what the argument is about.
Image
Visit CC on Facebook and Twitter!
Robinette wrote:
Kaskavel wrote:Seriously. Who is the female conqueror of CC?

Depends on what metric you use...
The coolest is squishyg
User avatar
Captain squishyg
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Medals: 42
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1) General Contribution (4)

Next

Return to Foundry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login