Small/large size differences

Topics that are not maps. Discuss general map making concepts, techniques, contests, etc, here.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:11 am

DiM wrote:
natty dread wrote:Also, we already pretty much don't have any de facto size limits - there's the supersize limit but even that can be exceeded in some cases...


so can i make a 6000*6000px map with 1000 terits?


No. I think you have to wait many years before you will be able to play such map. (that tbh I wouldn't play anyway)
About the rest, I totally echo natty.
Have just large is a stupid idea, it makes happy 10 mapmakers and unhappy the large part of the community who use small maps.
It will never happen on a commercial site....it's like say..."Can't you buy a bigger monitor? Then f**k yourself!"
You can't do it on CC and for various reasons; probably you can do it if you are, let me say, the EA(*) or another big company (although they really know that the UI should be friendly in a game, in fact here we're not talking about static pages or a web site like wikipedia, where you can scroll without problems and with all the time of this world).

Even if a day monitors will be changed, resolution will be better....you will have always people that play with big monitors and people that will uses smaller ones. Said that, and specially now with supersizes, I don't see why draw a small version has become a problem... :?
Things change step by step...

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby DiM on Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:20 am

its not about making some mapmakers happy or sad. it's about making each map just the right size without the use of strict measurements.

my slovakia map is less than half the surface of what i'm allowed to use. in theory i could go ahead and fill all that space with whatever i want and still be in the current guidelines. is that normal? certainly not, but current guidelines allow me to do it.

simply put all maps should have just one size and be as small as possible without becoming ugly or hard to read.
that means that if i can make slovakia at 600*300 then that's the perfect size for it, no need to go higher. on the other hand if i want to make a 1000 terit map i should be allowed to do it as long as i obey the same rule of not wasting space and keeping the size at a minimum.

this, plus a better interface like i suggested 5 years ago, where you're allowed to easily drag a map with your mouse or zoom in/out with your mouse wheel would make any map easy to create and easy to play on any environment whether it is your smartphone or your big ass wall size tv screen.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
Image
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10401
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (10)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (3)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby Gillipig on Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:45 am

I agree with nobodies and natty here. All maps need a small version! To skip the small version would create more problems for users with small screens/"new mini technology :)" than it would make it easier for map makers.
I think in some cases there might not need to be a large version though. If the small version is clear and uncluttered maybe the large version is unnecessary!?
AoG for President of the World!!
I promise he will put George W. Bush to shame!
User avatar
Lieutenant Gillipig
 
Posts: 3056
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:24 pm
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (3)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:21 am

Gillipig wrote:I agree with nobodies and natty here. All maps need a small version! To skip the small version would create more problems for users with small screens/"new mini technology :)" than it would make it easier for map makers.
I think in some cases there might not need to be a large version though. If the small version is clear and uncluttered maybe the large version is unnecessary!?


Large version is needed too - small versions of some maps look really small and hard to read on monitors with high resolution, that's why it's good to have two different sizes
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13258
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby tkr4lf on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:22 am

I like having both sizes. It's a good happy medium. Most like to use the small map, some like the large map. What's wrong with that?

I know I used to use the small map exclusively. Then I realized that I could actually change the size of the map, and I started playing more complicated maps, and the large map has become all that I use. But, I have a pretty big monitor for a laptop (17.3 inch screen) so it doesn't bother me to use a huge map. I can understand the other side though. Not all laptops have large screens, people play from their phones, etc.
User avatar
Major tkr4lf
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:35 am
Location: Austin, TX
Medals: 63
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (11) Tournament Contribution (14)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby Gillipig on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:59 pm

natty dread wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I agree with nobodies and natty here. All maps need a small version! To skip the small version would create more problems for users with small screens/"new mini technology :)" than it would make it easier for map makers.
I think in some cases there might not need to be a large version though. If the small version is clear and uncluttered maybe the large version is unnecessary!?


Large version is needed too - small versions of some maps look really small and hard to read on monitors with high resolution, that's why it's good to have two different sizes

I meant for some maps, not all! If a map doesn't look the least cluttered at the small size it might not need a bigger version. Just a thought :).
AoG for President of the World!!
I promise he will put George W. Bush to shame!
User avatar
Lieutenant Gillipig
 
Posts: 3056
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:24 pm
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Tournament Contribution (3)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:34 pm

Gillipig wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I agree with nobodies and natty here. All maps need a small version! To skip the small version would create more problems for users with small screens/"new mini technology :)" than it would make it easier for map makers.
I think in some cases there might not need to be a large version though. If the small version is clear and uncluttered maybe the large version is unnecessary!?


Large version is needed too - small versions of some maps look really small and hard to read on monitors with high resolution, that's why it's good to have two different sizes

I meant for some maps, not all! If a map doesn't look the least cluttered at the small size it might not need a bigger version. Just a thought :).


Ok no, you're not getting the point. Monitors have different resolutions. A 1000x1000 image is not always the same size in absolute terms - on a low res monitor it can be 20x20 cm, on a high res monitor it can be 10x10 cm. Having two sizes ensures that the map is more likely to be able to be viewed in optimal size on different devices.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13258
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:49 pm

DiM wrote:my slovakia map is less than half the surface of what i'm allowed to use. in theory i could go ahead and fill all that space with whatever i want and still be in the current guidelines. is that normal? certainly not, but current guidelines allow me to do it.


Yeah, guidelines allow you to do it, but those are guidelines not strict rules. If your map has a lot of useless space someone will tell you to go with a smaller size....users and also CAs did this in past and do this today. I don't think it needs to be written, it's a sort of unwritten rule: "use the space you really need, but keep in mind you have some limits".
Good and experienced mapmakers, like you , easily understand what is the space they need. Novice mapmakers maybe need some advice, but it's not a so big issue. ;)
Nowdays, we need just to be sure that maps fit the UI (that's the reason we have limits)...when we will have a new UI (you don't know how much I agree with you about the necessity of a better one) maybe we can discuss about modify/update these limits. :)

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:46 am

Lackattack recently gathered some stats about browser resolutions.

1. 1366x768 15.50%
2. 1280x800 13.82%
3. 1024x768 8.03%
4. 1440x900 7.64%
5. 1280x1024 7.25%
6. 1920x1080 7.13%
7. 1680x1050 5.92%
8. 1600x900 5.07%
9. 320x480 3.65%
10. 768x1024 2.65%


Small maps are definitely always appreciated and needed. In fact, I think some of the small maps we've had over the last year or so are pushing the limits of being too big to really be 'small.'!


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25067
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby ender516 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:59 am

Interesting statistics, especially those (, 10) showing people playing in portrait mode (rotated monitors, smartphones, tablets?). I recently lost my rotatable monitor at work. I went from a large 4:3 screen to a shorter but wider 16:9 format, with probably about the same area overall, but the new one doesn't turn. :( The display adapter will still flip the screen around, but that is of little use. :P
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class ender516
Tech Contributor
Tech Contributor
 
Posts: 4451
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (9)
Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (11)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:12 am

AndyDufresne wrote:In fact, I think some of the small maps we've had over the last year or so are pushing the limits of being too big to really be 'small.'!


Without a comparison between two elements it's difficult to say what is big or small, everything is relative! :P
Image

Anyway, it seems to me there's a red colored request for a different policy for supersize images....but listen to me, try to change the UI, that's the issue not big maps. For now what I can say....smaller maps? yes, Sir!

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:39 pm

considering that there's a sort of official request for smaller small version, expect a change in the graphics/size guidelines very soon. In few word we will change the minimum 9% difference in something else....in the meanwhile if someone has suggestions or want to share thoughts feel free to post here! :)

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby natty dread on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:24 am

thenobodies80 wrote:in the meanwhile if someone has suggestions or want to share thoughts feel free to post here! :)


Well, you asked for it... ;)

I think it's totally moronic for the admin to restrict the size of maps - people can choose what maps they want to play, if someone doesn't feel comfortable playing a map that is 1400 x 1000 then they have a choice of a ton of smaller maps to play on.

Also, I totally agree that the sidebar has to go, that's just poor UI design. But hey, let's concentrate on creating pay-to-play tournaments instead, I'm sure that's much more important for the site... :roll:
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13258
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: fucked off
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:06 am

The Bison King wrote:
DiM wrote:i think we should get rid of small size and stick with just the large.

I'm on this ship, get a bigger monitor.

We're not all spoiled little rich kids with big-ass 22" monitors. When you move out of Mommy's basement you'll find out there are things to pay like rent and hydro and car insurance, and this will militate against your ability to buy high-tech supertoys.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Dukasaur
Head Socialite
Head Socialite
 
Posts: 9540
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
Medals: 126
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (18)
General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Small/large size differences

Postby DiM on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:27 am

Dukasaur wrote:
The Bison King wrote:
DiM wrote:i think we should get rid of small size and stick with just the large.

I'm on this ship, get a bigger monitor.

We're not all spoiled little rich kids with big-ass 22" monitors. When you move out of Mommy's basement you'll find out there are things to pay like rent and hydro and car insurance, and this will militate against your ability to buy high-tech supertoys.


i play on a 1366*768, 15.6" laptop display.

as for the rest of your message, i hope it was a poor attempt at humour. ;)
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
Image
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10401
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (10)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (3)

PreviousNext

Return to Foundry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login