What would you like to have into it?

Topics that are not maps. Discuss general map making concepts, techniques, contests, etc, here.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

What would you like to have into it?

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:05 pm

Hello guys,

if it would be possible to have a "tool" to work on maps....what would you like to have into it?
Be aware, I'm not talking about a tool to write xml, but more about something that could help to calculate bonuses, starting drop, etc etc.....like an all-in-one mapmaker tool.
I would like to understand, for example, in which occasions you find yourself saying "damn! why i don't have a tool for that?" or "why the X tool doesn't allow me to do that?"
Let me know. ;)

Nobodies

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:45 pm

if you're going to have an all-in-one tool, then may i ask that you don't password protect it to start with.
I would like to be able to see the formulas that are behind the scenes.

but if doing such tool,
1. the bonus caculator,
2. drop bonus probability,
3. number of starting regions for each type of game,
4. divisor
all need to go in. :) if possible.
User avatar
Private cairnswk
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm
Medals: 51
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (36) General Contribution (3)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:58 pm

excel spreadsheet makes things harder for me, so probablyI won't use it.
I will go with a online tool, easier to use and more friendly...something along the xml wizard chipv did.

btw, if you want to see the formulas behind the excel spreadsheet tool i did, I can give you a "unprotected" copy.
It was protected only to prevent unexpert people to change numbers or formulas and obtain wrong results. There's no secret there...i'm not apple or microsoft. ;)

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:43 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:excel spreadsheet makes things harder for me, so probablyI won't use it.
I will go with a online tool, easier to use and more friendly...something along the xml wizard chipv did.

btw, if you want to see the formulas behind the excel spreadsheet tool i did, I can give you a "unprotected" copy.
It was protected only to prevent unexpert people to change numbers or formulas and obtain wrong results. There's no secret there...i'm not apple or microsoft. ;)


thanks. i can easy do things in xcel, and many people are familiar with xcel.
Putting in a tool like chipv...unless someone understands the language behind, means someone with those programming skills has to be the one to change it when new things come along.
but not having the xcel file password protected just means i don't have to re-invent the wheel if i want to look at some other mechanics/functions. :)
User avatar
Private cairnswk
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm
Medals: 51
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (36) General Contribution (3)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby ender516 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:52 pm

I think the most important feature would be that the tool would do all these calculations from the XML itself. The spreadsheets are fine, but it is tedious and error-prone to count, say, the number of territories bordering a continent.

Calculating golden numbers based on different reinforcement rates would be handy, too. For example, it was just proposed for New Zealand (I think) that a rate of one troop for each four territories be used, in order to avoid the problem of starting players with 18 territories, which ordinarily gives the first to play a chance to cut the deployment of opponents by taking a single territory.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class ender516
 
Posts: 4452
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (9)
Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (11)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:13 pm

ender516 wrote:I think the most important feature would be that the tool would do all these calculations from the XML itself. The spreadsheets are fine, but it is tedious and error-prone to count, say, the number of territories bordering a continent.

Calculating golden numbers based on different reinforcement rates would be handy, too. For example, it was just proposed for New Zealand (I think) that a rate of one troop for each four territories be used, in order to avoid the problem of starting players with 18 territories, which ordinarily gives the first to play a chance to cut the deployment of opponents by taking a single territory.

1st part ender...yes i agree, but that would mean writing the xml at the start of the map for draft (which is what i do anyway for 88 and 888 placement and territory count) but i don't do the borders etc, until the gameplay is sorted because sometimes these things change quite a bit esp. on my maps anyway.
would other mapmakers be prepared to do that?

if the golden numbers, divisor and drop could be calculated from basic xml that would be great, but knowing thate the centering needs fixing on the current xml tool, and tnb80 has posted in other thread about that, wouldn't it be simpler to build a new xml tool from scratch? and put all these functions in it?

as for NZ, well, yes sometimes the drop affects gameplay too widely, and changing the divisor is a way of solving that issue if ti has to be done.
User avatar
Private cairnswk
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm
Medals: 51
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (36) General Contribution (3)

Re: What would you like to have into it?

Postby ender516 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 pm

cairnswk wrote:
ender516 wrote:I think the most important feature would be that the tool would do all these calculations from the XML itself. The spreadsheets are fine, but it is tedious and error-prone to count, say, the number of territories bordering a continent.

Calculating golden numbers based on different reinforcement rates would be handy, too. For example, it was just proposed for New Zealand (I think) that a rate of one troop for each four territories be used, in order to avoid the problem of starting players with 18 territories, which ordinarily gives the first to play a chance to cut the deployment of opponents by taking a single territory.

1st part ender...yes i agree, but that would mean writing the xml at the start of the map for draft (which is what i do anyway for 88 and 888 placement and territory count) but i don't do the borders etc, until the gameplay is sorted because sometimes these things change quite a bit esp. on my maps anyway.
would other mapmakers be prepared to do that?

if the golden numbers, divisor and drop could be calculated from basic xml that would be great, but knowing thate the centering needs fixing on the current xml tool, and tnb80 has posted in other thread about that, wouldn't it be simpler to build a new xml tool from scratch? and put all these functions in it?

as for NZ, well, yes sometimes the drop affects gameplay too widely, and changing the divisor is a way of solving that issue if ti has to be done.

Well, all the calculations could be done from whatever numbers you choose to input, but we have most of these calculators already, and their value is limited by the fact that someone can, say, type in "53" for the number of territories and come up with a output value, which gets discussed and used, and then someone counts things up in the XML and finds 54 or 52, and nothing is what it ought to be. If other mapmakers do not want to use the tools that are made available, there is no reason to force them, but eventually the facts about their maps will surface. It is always better to find the flaws earlier rather than later in the development process. I guess my feeling is that with good tools (including an updated tool for creating the XML), people will be less likely to put off doing the XML. A well designed tool (or toolkit) would take the numbers from any XML available, but would also allow the user to input arbitrary numbers for the sake of experimentation. Having these calculators integrated into the XML creator would be best in my mind. That way, as you created and saved your XML, the tool could analyze it and warn you that, say, the drop for 5 player games was not golden.

(It was always a pipe dream of mine to create a GIMP add-on or plug-in or whatever for creating XML, but having little experience in GIMP or the script language it uses, it has never materialized. Perhaps I will take another look, as my world at work is expanding to include new languages (new for me, anyway). )
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class ender516
 
Posts: 4452
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (9)
Map Contribution (5) General Contribution (11)


Return to Foundry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login