New Rule Again...

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New Rule Again...

Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:21 pm

Again, not really new, as everyone has enforced this up until now. Brought on by map ideas topics and stubbornness from a brilliant cartographer whose time would be better spent on other projects. Supported by other moderators and advisers.

* A map must provide balanced game play. It should be reasonably clear that the the player that draws the first turn does not have a significant advantage, nor should it be likely that any player will be eliminated in the first round of a game.

I am expecting some fuss, but oh well, this has gotten silly.
Last edited by Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mibi on Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:14 pm

I think I will drop 'brilliant' from my lexicon after this flagrant abuse of the Kings English.
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Re: New Rule Again...

Postby DiM on Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:25 pm

Coleman wrote:A map must provide balanced game play. The first player to move must not be able to win 60% or more of the time in any situation,


how did you come up with the 60%?? just curious.

Coleman wrote:no player should be guaranteed victory based on placement,


kinda difficult with this one. if a guy starts with a continent on doodle earth and goes first he's guaranteed victory unless extremely bad dice occur. which is the case on WoF

Coleman wrote:and no player should be able to be eliminated before they can take a turn.


i have seen first turn eliminations before a player has taken his turn on various other maps, starting with doodle earth, going through usa and even on classic. hmm will all those maps be removed? :shock:
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Postby oaktown on Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:57 pm

with the right conditions a player could be eliminated in the first round on any map. For instance, I've been wiped out in the first round of triples games because I went sixth and my opponents pounded on me.

I think that what is needed here is broad language that represents the spirit of the law...

* A map must provide balanced game play. It should be reasonably clear that the the player that draws the first turn does not have a significant advantage, nor should it be likely that any player will be eliminated in the first round of a game.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:49 pm

That's why I used should and not must for those parts. The word should and all that follows has been ignored in other areas of the guidelines.

If we all feel Oaktown's reword is better I can update it.
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Postby Herakilla on Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:53 pm

any situation? that would include holding bonuses and 1v1 games and both of them together. if you find yourself going first in a 1v1 with all asia... gg!

your gonna have to revise that and answer dim's question of how you got 60%
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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:00 pm

Dice Analyzer and Doodle Earth. it's gone now though.
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Postby DiM on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:08 pm

since this rule was created to stop the production of WoF i'm going to use it as a reference.


oaktown wrote:* A map must provide balanced game play.


balanced gameplay. i agree with that. that's what we aim for. equal chances and no clear strategies that always succeed.
in this case WoF is THE most balance map ever. each player has EXACTLY the same chance as the other guys.

oaktown wrote:It should be reasonably clear that the the player that draws the first turn does not have a significant advantage,


define significant advantage. because at the moment on any map and any setting the first player always has the advantage simply because he's the first.
and in some cases it has a very big advantage. doodle assassin 6p game

oaktown wrote: nor should it be likely that any player will be eliminated in the first round of a game.


this is another problematic issue because on most maps an elimination is possible and on some an elimination is probable.
Last edited by DiM on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:08 pm

DiM wrote:since this rule was created to stop the production of WoF i'm going to use it as a reference.


oaktown wrote:* A map must provide balanced game play.


balanced gameplay. i agree with that. that's what we aim for. equal chances and no clear strategies that always succeed.
in this case WoF is THE most balance map ever. each player has EXACTLY the same chance as the other guys.

oaktown wrote:It should be reasonably clear that the the player that draws the first turn does not have a significant advantage,


define significant advantage. because at the moment on any map and any setting the first player always has the advantage simply because he's the first.

oaktown wrote: nor should it be likely that any player will be eliminated in the first round of a game.


this is another problematic issue because on most maps an elimination is possible and on some an elimination is probable.


Please - just drop it...

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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:12 pm

All law in open to interpretation. Should we ever devise a Foundry Supreme Court to handle your confusion I'll let you know.

Until then, assume that I know what I'm doing, and if that becomes questionable appeal to Andy, and if you don't like that than Lack. An appeals process if you will. :roll:
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:51 pm

yeti_c wrote:
DiM wrote:since this rule was created to stop the production of WoF i'm going to use it as a reference.


oaktown wrote:* A map must provide balanced game play.


balanced gameplay. i agree with that. that's what we aim for. equal chances and no clear strategies that always succeed.
in this case WoF is THE most balance map ever. each player has EXACTLY the same chance as the other guys.

oaktown wrote:It should be reasonably clear that the the player that draws the first turn does not have a significant advantage,


define significant advantage. because at the moment on any map and any setting the first player always has the advantage simply because he's the first.

oaktown wrote: nor should it be likely that any player will be eliminated in the first round of a game.


this is another problematic issue because on most maps an elimination is possible and on some an elimination is probable.


Please - just drop it...

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Name 1 map where elimination is 100% guaranteed every time with any number of players in the first round where only one player moves.

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Postby DiM on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:06 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Name 1 map where elimination is 100% guaranteed every time with any number of players in the first round where only one player moves.


read carefully next time you post.

i didn't say anything about 100%

all i said is:

on most maps an elimination is possible and on some an elimination is probable.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:23 pm

He said something about 100%, because unless someone doesn't attack that's pretty much what you have. I could tell you exactly if I could find the app I used but that will have to wait.
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Postby DiM on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:32 pm

Coleman wrote:He said something about 100%, because unless someone doesn't attack that's pretty much what you have. I could tell you exactly if I could find the app I used but that will have to wait.


don't worry about it. the problem was already solved via pm with no harsh words just simple discussion. something that could and should have been done from the start instead of all the "stupid" "retarded" "let's throw rotten tomatoes" mockery crap. all i asked from the beginning was an intelligent and to the point valid answer. i got that on pm. :wink:
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Postby hulmey on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:50 pm

good now , shut up!!!

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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:30 pm

DiM wrote:instead of all the "stupid" "retarded" "let's throw rotten tomatoes" mockery crap. all i asked from the beginning was an intelligent and to the point valid answer. i got that on pm. :wink:
DiM doesn't like my jokes. :(
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Postby Unit_2 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 pm

How are "we" as the supost to do this? why it does that is because of the "random" drop, it has nothing to do with the Cartographers nor the maps that we make.

if you have a problem with it take it up with Random.org not the Cartographers.

P.S. sorry for blowing up like that :oops:
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Postby Coleman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:49 pm

We can't make you be accountable for bad drops, and we wouldn't.

What we can (and will do) is make sure that no one player will have the advantage every single time regardless of the drop conditions.

This is a strategy game site. It says so in the first sentence of the overview, so we can't let that change, even if it may seem fun for a short while. Everyone needs to feel like they have a shot or that their bad luck can be overcome (at least at first).

Hope that makes sense.
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rule

Postby WL_southerner on Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:10 am

you mean like the new crossword map in the making should go a long way to
even the level of play out at the start of the game
thats if i can bend the size rule a little
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