Conquer Club

Map Organization Project [Ver 3 - Pg 13]

Topics that are not maps. Discuss general map making concepts, techniques, contests, etc, here.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

What is your favorite category?

 
Total votes : 0

Postby fireedud on Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:19 pm

mibi wrote:
DiM wrote:
hmm i assumed the thumbnails for each map would still be visible in each category and that would have meant probably 200+ thumbnails on one page since the maps fall under several categories.



uh.. that would certainly be the least efficient way to go about it. It could be set up so that in addition to the info link all the categories would be listed.

like

-------------
|thumnail|
------------
link
resouces, medieval, large map

so that if someone like a map because of its medievalness they click the category and it reorganizes with all the medieval maps at top.

anyways, there are 100 ways to implemented soft categories and we shouldn't nix it based on the worst possible implementation.

the whole game finder needs an overhaul to begin with.


Wouldn't it be easier just to have an expand/collapse menu? That way, the page doesn't need refreshing and it looks neater. The way you posted it means the people will have to continuosly scroll up and down to chage the settings. Your way also means that every map will have to be catogorized to see how much it fits into every tag.
me have no sig
Cook fireedud
 
Posts: 1704
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:06 pm

Postby yeti_c on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:57 am

If you order the maps by "Most popular" (i.e. Star ratings) then the more popular maps get more play... not something I think we should be promoting.

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby edbeard on Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:04 am

well, I still say territory count is the best thing to do.


As I said in an earlier post, and DiM later restated in response to my post, game settings such as cards and fortifications have an effect on game length.

But, in general, maps with less territories will have shorter games than maps with more territories. If you play Doodle Earth with no cards and adjacent forts that will almost always be a shorter game than World 2.1 with the same settings.


What do new players think about when they're making a game.

1. How long do I want this game to be.
2. What type of game do I want to play.
3. I want this game to be fun.


So, I think the best way to let people go about this is to split up the maps by size. If you also had ratings, then they could figure out which map is the best in that category. If they have two maps with a similar rating, they can click on the image to get a better idea, and/or hopefully be able to click on the new thing we're cooking up that gives a description on the map.


Like mibi said, putting another list just by rating doesn't achieve the goal. You could probably make a good argument that splitting the maps up by type would work as well. I think that's just going to be a difference of opinion.

So, maybe having the option of either by size or type is the best way. And, maybe combine that with ratings, feedback, and map descriptions .
User avatar
Lieutenant edbeard
 
Posts: 2501
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:41 am

Postby DiM on Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:40 am

yeti_c wrote:If you order the maps by "Most popular" (i.e. Star ratings) then the more popular maps get more play... not something I think we should be promoting.

C.


huh? why? i think you're totally wrong here. when a new player joins you want him to have the best possible experience not the worst, to be sure he enjoys the game and stays. if a guy comes on CC and his first game is on crosswords he'll say WTF? and leave. when i joined i had no idea what maps are good and what aren't so the first game i joined was obviously on classic as almost any noob. then i went on playing several other maps and game types before i created my first game which was also on classic because i wasn't yet convinced by other maps i had played. so my first created game was the 13th game i played. then i played another 17 games on 8 maps with all kinds of settings and various opponents to test the market and see what's nice. if i had a rating + feedback + info link i would have known exactly what to play and i wouldn't have wasted my time. testing and losing points. many people are actually afraid to try something they don't know because they're afraid of losing points and so they stick to what they know best (classic)

so it's only natural to have all the products sorted by popularity so that any new player can be guaranteed a first pleasurable existence to assure he doesn't leave. then after he starts getting accustomed to the site he starts reading feedbacks and info links and he tries other maps that seem to suit his style.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Postby hulmey on Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:52 am

Well said DIM....A noob should be eased into the game....

I would prefer it if you could customize the menu yourself through your personal menu!! I have never played crossword and i doubt i ever will!! I should be able to put these in some kind of hidden folder. I doubt this is do-able but it would be nice
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
User avatar
Lieutenant hulmey
 
Posts: 3742
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:33 am
Location: Las Vegas

Postby Aerial Attack on Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:11 pm

hulmey wrote:Well said DIM....A noob should be eased into the game....

I would prefer it if you could customize the menu yourself through your personal menu!! I have never played crossword and i doubt i ever will!! I should be able to put these in some kind of hidden folder. I doubt this is do-able but it would be nice

Just save a add the Saved Searches script and check all the maps that you WILL play. The only problem is that you need to reload and update your bookmark (DEFAULT) when new maps are added.

Script is avail from my sig.
Last edited by Aerial Attack on Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
My Conquer Club Scripts | Bests: 2133, #205
User avatar
Sergeant Aerial Attack
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Generation One: The Clan

Postby hulmey on Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:18 pm

thanks mate :D
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
User avatar
Lieutenant hulmey
 
Posts: 3742
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:33 am
Location: Las Vegas

Postby yeti_c on Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:34 pm

DiM wrote:
yeti_c wrote:If you order the maps by "Most popular" (i.e. Star ratings) then the more popular maps get more play... not something I think we should be promoting.

C.


huh? why? i think you're totally wrong here. when a new player joins you want him to have the best possible experience not the worst


I think you missed my point...

I was more thinking that if all the "good" maps are at the top - they get more plays than the "less good" maps... Whereas if you order something by alphabetical - everyone knows it's alpha - thus searches the list...

However I do agree - that you want new players to play better maps...

But perhaps you also want them to play "easier" maps too...

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby DiM on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:18 pm

yeti_c wrote:But perhaps you also want them to play "easier" maps too...

C.


that's exactly where the feedbak and info link helps. because they provide info about how easy or complex good or bad a map is.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Postby unriggable on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:27 pm

You could do a library like thing were theres a search button, tabs, shit like that. Widow-Decimal system, get my drift?
Image
User avatar
Cook unriggable
 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Postby yeti_c on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:28 pm

DiM wrote:
yeti_c wrote:But perhaps you also want them to play "easier" maps too...

C.


that's exactly where the feedbak and info link helps. because they provide info about how easy or complex good or bad a map is.


Better doesn't equal Easier...

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby unriggable on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:34 pm

Could we do date added? It's a well known fact that later maps are generally more complex.

I also just realized that since I've joined in February the number of maps has more than doubled, good job foundry.
Image
User avatar
Cook unriggable
 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Postby yeti_c on Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:38 pm

unriggable wrote:Could we do date added? It's a well known fact that later maps are generally more complex.

I also just realized that since I've joined in February the number of maps has more than doubled, good job foundry.


That was what we had before we went Alpha...

I prefer Alpha to be honest...

But Date added could be another category for sorting (if a sorting page is added)

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby fireedud on Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:07 pm

unriggable wrote:Could we do date added? It's a well known fact that later maps are generally more complex.

I also just realized that since I've joined in February the number of maps has more than doubled, good job foundry.



Most Newbies would not know that fact, it'll just be there for no reason to most of them.
me have no sig
Cook fireedud
 
Posts: 1704
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:06 pm

Postby Coleman on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:11 am

So what is the consensus. Implementing sorting options is bad? We should just focus on pitching a feedback/rating system to lack along with the information pages?
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
User avatar
Sergeant Coleman
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby DiM on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:16 am

Coleman wrote: We should just focus on pitching a feedback/rating system to lack along with the information pages?


that's the one.

talk to lack see if he can implement it then we'll fill the information pages and give them to him. if he accepts it will be the best solution. if he doesn't we'll convince him. :roll:
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Postby yeti_c on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:18 am

I disagree - I think Sorting is the way forward...

However - you need to find the correct scales...

I think it should be

Alphabetical
Size (No of territories)
Star Rating
Date

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby Coleman on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:19 am

If you check the FAQ in the information pages project, lack has said he will implement them, he just isn't sure how he wants to do it yet. So we are covered there.

I'll post an edited pm sometime today and we can see if we get a consensus on how we want to pitch the rating/feedback stuff.

EDIT: While we still argue over sorting. :lol:
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
User avatar
Sergeant Coleman
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby DiM on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:24 am

yeti_c wrote:I disagree - I think Sorting is the way forward...

However - you need to find the correct scales...

I think it should be

Alphabetical
Size (No of territories)
Star Rating
Date

C.


mate we already agreed number of terits has no valuable info to offer so it's useless. and the date is also useless. what good will that do?

the alphabetical is also of no use but it's main advantage is that it keeps the same arrangement we have now so 1 point for familiarity. but other than that it is also useless.

the best is star rating. or perhaps leave the maps as they are now (alphabetical) and then add the star rating + feedback + info link.

it will keep the same format everybody knows and offer extra info.
i actually think this might be the best solution. there will be no discrimination in the sorting of maps it will offer all the info needed and it will keep the same layout.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Postby Coleman on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:26 am

DiM, why are you so against people selecting to sort of number of territories if they want? You won't have to.
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
User avatar
Sergeant Coleman
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:36 pm
Location: Midwest

Postby DiM on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:42 am

Coleman wrote:DiM, why are you so against people selecting to sort of number of territories if they want? You won't have to.


i'm against multiple sorting methods. the page must be kept simple. we don't want a new player to come and browse through tons of sorting methods, tabs, categories and who knows what else just to start a game. somethin fast and simple is needed.
that's why i'm promoting the current format with added info. nothing less nothing more. the current format offers speed and easy understanding. what it doesn't offer is info and ratings on the maps. let's add just that and leave the rest identical.

remember less is more. :roll:

what do you want? a door knob that you twist to open the door or one that you must twist push say the first amendment and scratch your left ear with your right hand while at the same time keep hopping on one leg?
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10415
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks

Postby yeti_c on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:49 am

I disagree...

Number of terits is useful to a new player...

Date was added because some people want it...

It's Very easy to add a sorting algorithm to the initial page that wouldn't disrupt the UI in anyway - and would also always leave all maps on display.

C.
Image
Highest score : 2297
User avatar
Lieutenant yeti_c
 
Posts: 9624
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:02 am

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:15 pm

I just thought it might be a good idea to color code the different gimmicks.
I am sure there will be discussion abotu new groups and where each gimmick goes but I just wanted to get this idea out there.

Gimmick Groupings:
    Troop Movement/Attack Gimmicks
    Bonus Granting Gimmicks
    Territory/Continent Sorting Gimmicks
    Others (I know this will not be a category)


Adjusted Territory Bonus - Instead of your standard +1 for every 3 after 9 territories the territory bonus amounts have been adjusted to give out differently.

Autodeploy - Armies are automatically placed or taken away from specific territories on the map. If taken away the total army count on the territory cannot go below one.

Buildings - Multiple territories in one area of the map are represented by a single territory in another part of it.

Bombardments - Some territories bombard instead of attacking. After the attacker wins in a bombardment the defending territory is replaced with a neutral army and the attacker cannot advance.

Capitals - A specific form of double dipping that appears as a single or a group of single strategic territories.

Collections - Unlike continents these only require a specific amount of the designated territories to gain a bonus.

Conquest Gameplay - Players only start with a small number of territories and must conquer most of the map away from neutrals before reaching other players.

Dead Space - There are territories that don’t provide any sort of continent bonus.

Double Dipping - Territories show up in multiple continents.

Naming Confusion - The territory names are written in a complex way occasionally causing deployment mistakes.

Negative Bonus - There are negative bonuses on the map so that you lose armies instead of gaining armies for holding certain combinations of areas.

One Way Borders - Borders where attacks can only occur in a single direction.

Out of Play - Through bombardments and one way borders a portion of the map can be taken out of play for the remainder of the match.

Ranged Attack - Some territories on the map are connected without touching.

Strategic Resources - Instead of continents specific territories or combinations of territories provide bonuses.

Trapped Territory - Due to one way borders there is no way to attack out of the territory.

Victory Condition - Players can win by holding a set of specified territories instead of eliminating the other players.


And once this is sorted out they should be listed under the rules section at the top of the site.
Image
Major WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2774
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI

Postby Aerial Attack on Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:41 pm

Excellent idea WM. I like your categories too. Yeah, "Other" is a tough one. I noticed that all of the ones you listed as other were probably most likely to lead to confusion (except the Adjusted Territory Bonus). Perhaps that could be "High Confusion Potential" ?

I also think they should be listed by category/color first and within each category go alpha.
Image
My Conquer Club Scripts | Bests: 2133, #205
User avatar
Sergeant Aerial Attack
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Generation One: The Clan

Postby Herakilla on Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:48 pm

make the other "uncategorized"
Come join us in Live Chat!
User avatar
Lieutenant Herakilla
 
Posts: 4283
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Wandering the world, spreading Conquerism

PreviousNext

Return to Foundry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users