Central America - gameplay discussion thread

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Re: Central America: A Group Project

Postby oaktown on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:49 pm

Sorry to triple post in my own thread, but my mind is on this so here we go.

edbeard wrote:Belize - +1. why? well 3 terr (I think) and 2 borders. yea. it's probably a +2 but expansion is really easy. holding Belize and Guatemala will be a cinch. An 8 territory continent with 2 borders as a +5? +4 seems a bit better

Agreed - alone I can go either way, but once you start coupling regions the lower bonus makes more sense.

edbeard wrote:Costa Rica, Panama: this is where things get dicey. The combo is 9 territories with 3 borders and a +6 as you currently have it. I'd say these are easier to hold than any of the other combos which add up to +5 or just Nicaragua which itself is a +5. But, Costa Rica as a standalone might be a +4. 4 terr, 4 borders, 4 attack it. Panama is a +3 though.

I'm not really sure what to do there. The +6 for the combo seems too high but the standalone bonuses might be apt. Costa Rica would be too powerful if made a +4 and you can't add more borders to Panama to make the combo harder to hold. 3 borders is quite low though.

Another option that I'll put on the table is adding a territory to Panama, by adding maybe the islands off the south coast (Isla de Coiba et. al.). If Panama were six territories but still with three borders I think that would work as a +3, and it would make the Costa Rica/Panama combination a 10 territory +6. It would still be the highest two-region combo and an easy one to hold with the three borders, but at ten territories with no quickie +1 bonus it would also be the hardest (and in most games the last) two region combo to be wrapped up.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:39 pm

I think Belize should be a +1. It will be really easy to get, and as has been pointed out, expansion from it is also very easy. Plus, many of the other bonuses seem low. So a +1 should be fine for it.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby yeti_c on Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:40 am

Er if this is Central America -> Where's Mexico?

C.

EDIT : So this may be why...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_America

*Some* places think Mexico is part of Central America - but Geographically - it isn't.

C.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby mibi on Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:48 pm

It seems the people who start at either end willhave an advantage because their backs are against the wall so they can expand, where as someone who started primarily in the middle will be beseiged by the time they ever got one of those large bonus areas wrapped up.

Maybe there should be a smaller bonus area in the middle, or at least a way for someone in the middle to get out of the way via a sea route.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby MrBenn on Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:03 am

I think the advantage is more confined to somebody with a Northern start, as Belize is cornered away... Panama has the attack routes linking it to the Northern half of the map, and El Salvador is another small bonus at the top.

A smaller region in the Western part of Nicaragua would help... but I can't see where you would put it.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby oaktown on Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:40 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes worth noting:

• Redrew the borders of Costa Rica, now that I've actually looked at how the really regions sit. All territories are still borders, but now there are three northern borders.

• Moved the southern Pacific port up to Costa Rica. The player who controls Panama can no longer disrupt life on both coasts up north.

Together these two moves have a big effect on the balance of power in the south. It makes the Costa Rica + Panama group a 9 territory, 5 border, +6, which I think is much improved (it was only three borders).

• Put a mountain range in above El Salvador; this doesn't change the fact that both territories are borders, but it has two enemies on its borders rather than three. Not sure what this does for gameplay really, but it gets you thinking about the possibility of other mountain ranges that could help some border situations. Yes, that's a borrowed mountain range from the India map. :)

• Belize is +1... the concern was not so much that Belize was too high, but that when coupled with Guatemala it would be too high, so I think this makes sense.

For those that think that a northern start is beneficial, I would counter by saying that if you start in Belize and try to expand into Guatemala, you'll be fighting the player that started with El Salvador and who wants to do the same... and vice-versa.

While there may be a similar fight between a Costa Rica player and a Panama player, in my opinion the map favored a southern start until the above changes.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:47 pm

Gameplay looks pretty solid to me. But I'm not a big fan of the mountain impassable. I'm just not sure the benefit to gameplay outweighs the reality of the region - the mountains there are not nearly as large as mountains north and east of there that are missing from the map. All the mountains do are reduce the number of territories that can attack El Salvador by one...that just doesn't seem very important to me.

Now, who's going to be doing graphics for this? Is it going to be a competition, or what?
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 3

Postby oaktown on Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:50 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:I'm not a big fan of the mountain impassable.

Yeah, it's like i said, I'm not sure what it does for gameplay. Maybe nothing good.

ZeakCytho wrote:Now, who's going to be doing graphics for this? Is it going to be a competition, or what?

That's what I was thinking, but with a twist... you'll see, if this map ever gets to that point. ;)
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby bbqpenguin on Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:26 am

i'll direct you here for inspiration for honduras territ names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Honduras

and here for guatamala

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Guatemala
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby oaktown on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:15 am

bbqpenguin wrote:i'll direct you here for inspiration for honduras territ names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Honduras

and here for guatamala

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_Guatemala

Been there - trouble is there are like 16 departments in guatemala, for example, and I only need a few names. Wikipedia is no substitute for actual knowledge.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby yeti_c on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:38 am

Them islands numbered up as H3 - they're part of Honduras? - If so why are they Cyan and Not pink?

C.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby oaktown on Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:29 pm

yeti_c wrote:Them islands numbered up as H3 - they're part of Honduras? - If so why are they Cyan and Not pink?

C.

because I'm being sloppy - just paint-bucketing the colors in, and overlooked the islands. You get the idea.
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby MrBenn on Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:14 pm

Assuming you're going to sort out that blob... [Advanced Draft]
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Re: Central America: A Group Project, ver 4

Postby oaktown on Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:49 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


• Islands have colors.

• Alright, no mountains.

• All territories have future names... redrew some to conform to reality. Tried to use the shortest names possible - figured Chichicastenango might not fit. :D

• Blob?

The sooner we get the gameplay basics settled the sooner you lot can start working on the graphics... hoping to get something going by turkey day.
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Re: Central America: special project. Gameplay?

Postby oaktown on Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:49 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


No gameplay changes, just making it more presentable.
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Re: Central America: special project. HELP!

Postby el-presidente on Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:31 pm

I can't realy see anything wrong, It looks like a great map!. If your a mod, who gives you the gameplay stamp and whatnot? Could you just stamp yourself?
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Re: Central America: special project. HELP!

Postby MrBenn on Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:15 pm

el-presidente wrote:I can't realy see anything wrong, It looks like a great map!. If your a mod, who gives you the gameplay stamp and whatnot? Could you just stamp yourself?

We do try and avoid nepotism in these parts ;-)

Before moving to the next stage of development, we just want to make sure that any gameplay concerns have been raised and addressed...

My concern is about the Pacific/Caribbean ports - the 'one-sidedness' of the ports on the New World map still gets me muddled - at the very least Panama should be able to attack both oceans?
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Re: Central America: special project. HELP!

Postby oaktown on Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:17 pm

MrBenn wrote:My concern is about the Pacific/Caribbean ports - the 'one-sidedness' of the ports on the New World map still gets me muddled - at the very least Panama should be able to attack both oceans?

Are you saying that it would be better for play if Panama can hit both, or that the map would be more clear if Panama could hit both? Because I think it is the latter. What I think is getting you muddled about the current set-up is that we started with letters for ports that could attack each other, then simplified it by just having one attack route on each side... now both systems are on the map, and it's redundant and confusing. If I lose the "P" and "C" entirely, all we're dealing with is the attack routes, which for gameplay purposes is very straightforward.

I tend to think that it makes play more interesting to give Costa Rica a direct link to the north, since both Costa Rica and Panama may be somebody's start position and this provides some balance to the starts. So while I like the attack routes, the system needs to be clarified...

Click image to enlarge.
image

Perhaps the designer will have a better method of representing this visually, or of explaining how these attacks work. We'll be hoping for somebody's inspiration.

I've done so many updates just to make it look cleaner, I almost might as well just finish this up myself! :lol:
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Re: Central America: special project. HELP!

Postby MrBenn on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:07 am

If nobody else raises any objections, I will stamp this now:
Image

The future of this map is now in the hands of the mapmaking competition... :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=70130
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Re: Central America - gameplay discussion thread

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:35 pm

all i can say is maybe change the background, but other for that im speechless
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Re: Central America: special project. HELP!

Postby MrBenn on Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:17 pm

MrBenn wrote:The future of this map is now in the hands of the mapmaking competition... :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=70130


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