Jury Discussion- POLL

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Are Jurys a good idea?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:52 pm

YES!
6
43%
no
8
57%
No but I am just un-happy because they won't let me be on one
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 14

Re: Jury Discussion

Postby InkL0sed on Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:57 pm

Maybe it should work like this:

once the graphics and game play stampers feel like the maps are close to a stamp or should be stamped, a jury should then be called, at the stampers' discretion, that is.

I say at their discretion to leave flexibility for different maps. Some maps may be long overdue for a stamp and clearly don't need any more discussion, while others may be in more of a gray area and require more healthy discussion that a jury would provide, in which case the stampers would want a jury.
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 pm

InkL0sed wrote:once the graphics and game play stampers feel like the maps are close to a stamp or should be stamped, a jury should then be called, at the stampers' discretion, that is.

Agreed, that sounds very good.

And thanks for the promo/shout out Benn :P ;)

.44
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:01 pm

that sounds like a good idea, but i think that the maker of the map should also have something to do with the jury being called in, not exactly sure how though
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:44 pm

Can I sticky this thread as it is kind of important discussion involving the foundry?
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:47 pm

sailorseal wrote:Can I sticky this thread as it is kind of important discussion involving the foundry?

No, you can't. Only the CAs/Global Mods/Admins can do that.

.44
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby GrimReaper. on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:49 pm

NO JURYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:51 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
sailorseal wrote:Can I sticky this thread as it is kind of important discussion involving the foundry?

No, you can't. Only the CAs/Global Mods/Admins can do that.

.44

Your kidding right? Why would I ask permission if I can do it myself!?! I am asking them

GrimReaper. wrote:NO JURYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this is why I think it should be stickied
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:05 pm

sailorseal wrote:our kidding right? Why would I ask permission if I can do it myself!?! I am asking them

No, you don't understand. You cannot change this thread to a sticky, physically.

.44
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:28 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
sailorseal wrote:our kidding right? Why would I ask permission if I can do it myself!?! I am asking them

No, you don't understand. You cannot change this thread to a sticky, physically.

.44

No you don't understand. I mis-phrased my initial request but then when I said "if I could I would" that means I can't
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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:44 pm

sailorseal wrote:I said "if I could I would" that means I can't

You never said that :roll:

Anyway I think this bumps itself quite regularly as not much happens in the Foundry Discussion, somewhat sadly.

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Re: Jury Discussion

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:47 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
sailorseal wrote:I said "if I could I would" that means I can't

You never said that :roll:

Anyway I think this bumps itself quite regularly as not much happens in the Foundry Discussion, somewhat sadly.

.44

I essentially said that but I agree nothing happens so little posts, things get done but they take forever
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:25 pm

Sailorseal and .44, please stop filling foundry topics with spam. It's annoying to read. Keep it to PMs.

On the issue of whether this should be stickied: no. There's no purpose to it being stickied. It's as important a discussion as everything else in this forum, not more imortant.

As for juries themselves, I am more in agreement with what Ed outlined than anything else. Juries should give a final once-over for the whole map and suggest changes, but should not have the power to force mapmakers to accept these changes. If the gameplay or graphics are horribly flawed, the map should not have those stamps anyway. Ideally, by the time a jury is convened, the map will only have minor, subjective changes left to make, not major important ones.
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:27 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:Sailorseal and .44, please stop filling foundry topics with spam. It's annoying to read. Keep it to PMs.

.


We only fill the ones we make and I would keep it to PMs but he blocked me from sending him PMs as a joke
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby GrimReaper. on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:35 pm

I REFUSE TON SERVE ON JURY DUTY
'NO JURIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STRIKE
STRIKE I SAY
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:39 pm

GrimReaper. wrote:I REFUSE TON SERVE ON JURY DUTY
'NO JURIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STRIKE
STRIKE I SAY

Why?
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:51 pm

GrimReaper. wrote:I REFUSE TON SERVE ON JURY DUTY
'NO JURIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STRIKE
STRIKE I SAY

then you don't have to
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby The Neon Peon on Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:57 pm

I am opposed to the jury system very strongly, however I would change my mind if there were a simple check added: any cartographer will override the jury.

This means that the jury still functions and helps the map improve, but if the jury says the map should go on, but a professional cartographer disagrees, then the map stays.
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:28 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:I am opposed to the jury system very strongly, however I would change my mind if there were a simple check added: any cartographer will override the jury.

This means that the jury still functions and helps the map improve, but if the jury says the map should go on, but a professional cartographer disagrees, then the map stays.

Please define professional cartographer

In my opinion, the jury will be filled with people who have proven themselves capable of understanding and evaluating maps. A jury should never be used to alter the purpose or original intent of the map. It should be there to focus and direct an y last minute tweaks and cleanups that would make the map better.

If a jury could be overridden by a "professional cartographer" then they serve no purpose.
Thats like asking the defendant if they like the jury's verdict. If they don't (i.e. guilty verdict) they can ignore it and decide for themselves.
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby sailorseal on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:33 pm

May i remind you I was on a jury
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby The Neon Peon on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:57 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
The Neon Peon wrote:I am opposed to the jury system very strongly, however I would change my mind if there were a simple check added: any cartographer will override the jury.

This means that the jury still functions and helps the map improve, but if the jury says the map should go on, but a professional cartographer disagrees, then the map stays.

Please define professional cartographer

In my opinion, the jury will be filled with people who have proven themselves capable of understanding and evaluating maps. A jury should never be used to alter the purpose or original intent of the map. It should be there to focus and direct an y last minute tweaks and cleanups that would make the map better.

If a jury could be overridden by a "professional cartographer" then they serve no purpose.
Thats like asking the defendant if they like the jury's verdict. If they don't (i.e. guilty verdict) they can ignore it and decide for themselves.

You are going by the assumption that all juries are good, are capable of evaluating maps etc. What if they are not? then will we have some map that still needs some fixes get quenched?

Also, what if the jury can be overridden by the mods (or some people like you and cairns)? That does not mean that they will be ignored on everything they say. The jury makes some decisions, proposes some changes to the map and does their job. But what if the cartographers know that one of the changes makes the map worse? Does the fact that they veto that one change to the map make the jury useless?

The way I am proposing is that the jury's job is to look at the map, find the problems, and propose solutions. The reason the jury is good is because the people in it actually spend time looking at the map and writing comments on everything they see. I do not, however, visualize a jury as in control of the map and when it gets moved etc. I visualize them as a group of people who are asked to point out the problems in a map and offer solutions, but that does not mean that if the cartographers disagree that their word has to be followed.
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby InkL0sed on Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:20 pm

GrimReaper. wrote:I REFUSE TON SERVE ON JURY DUTY
'NO JURIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STRIKE
STRIKE I SAY


DaGip wrote:This is Socialism and I hate commies! I am buying a fucking gun this weekend.


Rebel!
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Re: Jury Discussion- POLL

Postby oaktown on Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:20 am

thanks to everybody who has helped or supported the jury idea, but I'm moving on. My new idea is more-inclusive, and is described here.
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