Conquer Club

It'll be good to ask Lack---but my initial thoughts are that it's fine.


--Andy

sully800 wrote:Here is my first draft of the World Cities map. My goal for this map is to create a map of the world that is of standard size (instead of the very large World 2.1). I know that we cannot create a map of the world countries that is too similar to the old classic map, so I have decided to highlight some of the most important cities from different countries around the world.

Because I am using cities instead of countries, all connections will be shown directly (instead of showing zone borders). Each region will be made of zones connected by lines, similar to Midkermia. Please ignore the current aesthetics of the shadows and lines, I understand it does not look very good. I intend to curve the lines to make all connections more aesthetically pleasing once the zones are finalized. Army shadows probably will not be used in the final version, but are shown here for simplicity.

Comments on the region images, colors, title, and bonus labels are welcome.

Click image to enlarge.

42 countries, 6 continents

No unique gameplay items, this map will be exceptionally "standard".

Very traditional gameplay in terms of the continent size, and number of connections between territories

hey i will do the xml for ya if ya want

Cains! That's it upper right corner of Australia, nice city. Now I remember!
Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.
The graphics seem pretty good so far so I wold focus on balancing the left and right side of the board from a GP perspective
Athens, Dubai and Cairo should all connect.
I would also change Singapore to connect with Nairobi instead of Cape Town
Great Idea and Great Map!

sailorseal wrote:Also add Stalingrad

FYI : It is called Volgograd for almost 50 years by now. In the name of Volga river on which it stays. Volga is the largest river in Europe.

sailorseal wrote:Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.

Alaska most known city is probably Anchorage.

tlane
see my map(link below)

i think hes trying to make it similar to classic but with citys right???

What about Classic Cities?

correct me if im wrong but i think hie is trying to make it like classic (shape wise)

I'm trying to establish the best possible gameplay for a 42 territory map of cities of the world.

Next update should be finished tonight. Mostly its minor changes to certain city names

V2



Changes
Hawaii --> Honolulu
Quebec --> Montreal
Budapest --> Berlin
Astana --> Novoslotsofotherletters
Quezon City --> Manila
Brasilia --> Buenos Aires
Denver --> Las Vegas

Also, I added the globe to the title, and the compass on the bottom left. Changed the colors of each city label to match the bonus region. Switched around a lot of connections so they would make more sense, while keeping gameplay very close to the same.

You should see Prince Of The City - I've been doing a line based vanilla map for some time but this is different and cool.

the pink or whatever it is for South America doesn't fit well with the other colours. orange maybe? this becomes especially evident in the legend. 5 ones that fit fairly well together (maybe Oceania looks a bit "off" compared to the others as well) and then South America which looks strange. Like it's missing its colour or something. the rest are all somewhat deep so it doesn't work for me there or on the map itself.

the compass stands out too much

the globe/title might stand out a little too much as well.


gameplay seems fine. I've been over it a few times and it looks ok. though it's almost classic exactly?


I think you said earlier that circles and connections are just to help talk about gameplay because that's really my only other gripe.

This update is just for you ed!

I tried the orange for SA and rather like it (I was initially afraid it might be confused with the yellow in africa, but that doesn't seem to be a problem). I toned down the title and compass just a tad, but I think they will still need additional blending. I also reversed my gradient for the ocean which I think improved the look dramatically so I thought I should post this for you all.

Tisha wrote:you should make the width 630.. it looks like you could use the space

Done! I think I had been misreading the height and weight restrictions previously

Joodoo wrote:1.Include two more cities:Lagos and Buenos Aires
2.Would it possible for Cairo and Dubai to become adjacent?
2.Is there a way to make it more clear that Athens belongs to Europe only (unless you want it to a transcontinental territory)?

I switched Brasilia to Buenos Aires but I don't want to add cities to SA or Africa. I think a map of this size will play much better with some "easy" to grab bonus regions, and 5 cities makes it to hard.

For the same reason, I don't want the Africa cities to border the Asia ones, because Africa is one of the low bonus regions. Tying it to three different continents makes it too hard to defend for 2 bonus troops. As you have probably noticed, I did switch the Africa connection to the more obvious location of Cairo.

DJ Teflon wrote:I'd suggest swapping Rio for Sao Paulo. According to my unreliable memory, Sao Paolo is the biggest city in Brazil.

You are correct that Sao Paulo is larger (in fact one of the 7 largest cities in the world!) Tokyo, NYC, Mexico City, and Mumbai are already included. Seoul is too close to South Korea in my opinion, even though its in the top 7. Jakarta is the 6th, so maybe it should replace Singapore after all? I think you've made a good enough case for Sao Paulo though simply on size.

sailorseal wrote:Cains! That's it upper right corner of Australia, nice city. Now I remember!
Also add Stalingrad and Alaska's Capital.
The graphics seem pretty good so far so I wold focus on balancing the left and right side of the board from a GP perspective
Athens, Dubai and Cairo should all connect.
I would also change Singapore to connect with Nairobi instead of Cape Town
Great Idea and Great Map!

Cairns I'm still debating. I don't want to add another territory to Australia, so it would replace Perth if I decide to add it. Perth's position is much more favorable though (Melbourne, Sydney and Cairns are basically in a line). People know Cairns on CC simply because of the town's most famous poster. Perth is much larger and in a better location so I think it will stay.

Volgograd (Stalingrad) is too close to Moscow and Tehran. Tehran could be switched, but Moscow is the real problem.

I originally included Anchorage in my draft instead of Edmonton, but I think it connects awkwardly with the rest of NA. Also the USA already has the most cities on the map, so adding another to Canada seems reasonable to me. I suppose I could include both, but NA is already the largest continent, and 42 territories is much better than 43.

What do you feel is imbalanced about the current gameplay?

edbeard wrote:I think you said earlier that circles and connections are just to help talk about gameplay because that's really my only other gripe.

Correct. I don't have an exact plan, but the current straight lines exist because they are simpler to redraw than curves. I think in the end I will have curved connections like an airline map and no army shadows when the xml is complete.

very nice look to the maps i thing the capitals are good doesn't make it look as busy
as well should we see Greenland on the top left side just wondering

awesome

Love it so far. Two more suggestions on replacements...

1. Replace Novowhatever, a fairly obscure city, with Lhasa, the capital of Tibet and one of the biggest political hotspots in the world today. It'll also make Asia look a little fuller.

2. Replace Stockholm with Geneva. Stockholm is a banking capital, but that's already well represented by New York, London, and Tokyo. Geneva is sort of the "law capital" of the world.

An aesthetic suggestion: Write out the full names of Los Angeles and New York. There's enough room and it makes the map seem, I dunno... more refined.

Gameplay suggestion... make Istanbul an asian city. As it stands now, Europe has more cities than Asia, which doesn't seem right somehow, even if Europe is a bigger influence in the world as a whole. But Istanbul can be either an Asian city or a European city, so why not call it Asian? Or you could go for some unique gameplay and make it count as both...

as far I know, Lhasa isn't a "world city"
plus, it has a population of less than 300,000 people, which is extremely low compared to other cities in practically any part of Asia

SultanOfSurreal wrote:Love it so far. Two more suggestions on replacements...

1. Replace Novowhatever, a fairly obscure city, with Lhasa, the capital of Tibet and one of the biggest political hotspots in the world today. It'll also make Asia look a little fuller.

Novosibirsk is the 3rd largest Russian city (after Moscow and St. Petersburg) which is why it was included. It is home to 1.4 million people, though I agree the name is not well known. It is in central Russia though which is the real key. Lhasa is in a part of the map that is already somewhat full. Removing Novos would make Russia look barren, but then again Siberia pretty much is so that might not be a terrible choice.

SultanOfSurreal wrote:2. Replace Stockholm with Geneva. Stockholm is a banking capital, but that's already well represented by New York, London, and Tokyo. Geneva is sort of the "law capital" of the world.

I think I need to include a city from Scandanavia, because the mainland of Europe is already full. Geneva is too close to Paris to fit in my map, though the law capital idea is interesting.

Stockholm could possibly be replaced with Oslo or Helsinki, but the former is not as well known and the latter is too close to St. Petersburg in my opinion.

SultanOfSurreal wrote:An aesthetic suggestion: Write out the full names of Los Angeles and New York. There's enough room and it makes the map seem, I dunno... more refined.

There might be enough room to write out the city names, but I don't think there's enough room to write the NYC connection to London. LA has plenty of space, but including shorter names will make the map feel less crowded. How does everyone else feel about this suggestion?

SultanOfSurreal wrote:Gameplay suggestion... make Istanbul an asian city. As it stands now, Europe has more cities than Asia, which doesn't seem right somehow, even if Europe is a bigger influence in the world as a whole. But Istanbul can be either an Asian city or a European city, so why not call it Asian? Or you could go for some unique gameplay and make it count as both...

I thought about making Istanbul part of both continents (since it actually is) but I'd rather keep classic style gameplay. Originally Istanbul was named Athens which would clearly be European, but Istanbul is a larger modern city. I feel like Athens has had enough world influence over the centuries, so if Istanbul is causing confusion I would gladly switch it back.

As for the continent sizes, Europe has more cities but fewer borders with other continents. Asia conversely has 4 borders (some with multiple continents) and fewer countries. I like the balance of those characteristics to give them an equal bonus value. If a city is switched to Asia then Europe would probably be +4 and Asia +6 which I don't like as much.

Sully I really do love this idea/map. Personally I'd like to see another city or two in Africa. I understand your reasoning for the easy to grab bonuses and such. Even if its just one, something like Timbuctu (sp?) with its clear historical significance on the Atlantic Coast would be great.

I might also suggest replacing Santa Cruz either with Santiago or Lima from the Pacific Coast of South America.

I also agree with the idea of moving Istanbul into Asia

I wouldn't be averse to moving up to even 46 terts but I understand your desire to keep it at 42. Since adding one in Africa would move it up to 43, if I had to remove one I'd probably take out Atlanta entirely

Here are my thoughts on the copyright issue, which unfortunately isn't about what's actually legal rather what could lead to trouble...

If we designate this map as Classic (e.g. Classic Cities), I'd consider it borderline. The fact that the territs are pinpoints rather than areas and the map is split over the Atlantic are plusses. However the fact is you're still playing for continents on an obvious world map. I don't think it's worth the risk to install something like this, but it's on the right track for a Classic REVAMP solution! Can you now find a way to make the continents as different as cities are from countries???

If we call the map World Cities and don't link it to Classic, then maybe the copyright issue would be okay. However, I don't think it's good to quench multiple maps with exact gameplay (with the exception of the Classic Shapes and Art which I hope we can merge someday ) and this has much more potential than just another map, if you guys can continue thinking outside the box

Well that all seems to be great news.

I'm glad the use of cities, and the different layout of the map has differentiated this from existing maps. Also, I prefer the "World Cities" designation as opposed to "Classic: Cities" so that is fine with me. I would also like to point out that the latest renditions do not have the exact same game play as any existing maps (though I understand the bonuses and borders that matter are similar to some preexisting maps).

It seems like the biggest current problem is the designation of continents as bonus regions. The first solution I thought of is to use Cardinal directions, but to me that naming convention is rather sloppy. Something to the effect of Northwest, Southwest, North Central, South Central, Northeast, and Southeast. It's boring and it would probably be best if the lines were the same as they are now so I don't know if that helps.

Other ideas for bonus regions (this would change the current borders and therefore the city distribution):
South Pacific
Sub-sahara
Eurasia
Far East
Latin America
Anglo America

Sully

If you included Mexico City and moved it in with the current South America you could designate that region Latin America easily enough.
Oceania is already different so you're good there.
I suppose you could combine Euasia as Ed did in his land and sea map but I'm thinking you'd need less terts there if you did that
Taking away Mexico means that N Am becomes US and Canada
Not quite sure what to do with Africa though

lackattack wrote:Can you now find a way to make the continents as different as cities are from countries???

That's my humble suggestion:

Replace continents by some other supranational entities which are not real continents, but cover an area which is mostly equivalent. The obvious sample is Europe --> European Union.

Other possible examples could be North América --> NAFTA, South América --> MERCOSUR, Africa --> Africa Union, Oceania --> CER, Asia --> APEC. They are just examples about how the suggestion could be implemented. The actual suggestion is: Replace continents by supranational entities and/or organizations that cover similar areas.

Can you connect WeLlington and Buenos Aires, and Perth and Capetown?
I think that would be good for gameplay.