The map formerly known as World Cities

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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:35 pm

South America (Mercasaur?) is +2 has 4 territories and 2 points to defend
Africa (OAU) is +2 has 4 territories and 2 points to defend
America (North Americans?) is +7 has 10 territories and 3 points to defend
Oceania is +3 has 7 territories and 3 points to defend
Europe is +5 has 9 territories and 3 points to defend
Asia is +5 has 7 territories and 4 points to defend

Note that Mexico is part of NAFTA so you if you use that the USA/NAFTA might be larger

I'd say America's bonus is too high, Oceania is too low, Europe is OK and Asia is slightly too low.

Also think to get the risk like play style you have to have spots like ukraine and the middle east. Spots that incentize you to advance your border to make it easier to defend.
Not sure where those are on this map.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:08 pm

Merciless Wong wrote:South America (Mercasaur?) is +2 has 4 territories and 2 points to defend
Africa (OAU) is +2 has 4 territories and 2 points to defend
America (North Americans?) is +7 has 10 territories and 3 points to defend
Oceania is +3 has 7 territories and 3 points to defend
Europe is +5 has 9 territories and 3 points to defend
Asia is +5 has 7 territories and 4 points to defend

Note that Mexico is part of NAFTA so you if you use that the USA/NAFTA might be larger

I'd say America's bonus is too high, Oceania is too low, Europe is OK and Asia is slightly too low.

Also think to get the risk like play style you have to have spots like ukraine and the middle east. Spots that incentize you to advance your border to make it easier to defend.
Not sure where those are on this map.


You seem to have a couple of things mixed up. In the latest version NA has 12 cities and 4 borders (Hawaii, Miami, NY and LA). I agree that the bonus would be too high with the numbers your posted. Perhaps there should be 5 border cities?

Asia is quite difficult to defend since 4/7 territories are borders. It is also in the center of the map (borders 3 other regions) which is why the bonus is higher then you might initially guess.

Oceania is the tough one. It's sitting between a +3 bonus and a +4 bonus, but I'm leaning toward the +3. All 3 border cities also border each other, which means if the bonus region is breached by the enemy it can be easily repaired. If the borders were all split up like in Europe then I would lean toward a +4 bonus.

As for spots like Ukraine and Middle East (referring to classic) I think you have a point! I intended to connect Seattle and Tokyo but apparently forgot. That way holding Tokyo will simplify the NA borders. Does that meet your wishes?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:42 pm

I think I got Honolulu in asia and missed NY (visibility is low). Sry.

Hawai and Athens are unclear. is Athens Europe or Asia.

The Tokyo- Seattle would work. I would also consider breaking Manila - Hong Kong (or make it one way Manila to Hong Kong).
Leave incentive to take Hawaii to protect Asia.

Think of a second way to make the city clear. The light colors can be unclear. Perhaps color the text differently, halo the text differently or add a list of cities and what region they belong it below.

Otherwise fantastic. Pls review Prince of the CIty, I'd like your feedback as another fan of simple maps with good gameplay.
You can always add colored lines around your circles but I would freak out if my map doesn't get draft because it looks like yours.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Joodoo on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:53 am

Merciless Wong wrote:I think I got Honolulu in asia and missed NY (visibility is low). Sry.

Hawai and Athens are unclear. is Athens Europe or Asia.

The Tokyo- Seattle would work. I would also consider breaking Manila - Hong Kong (or make it one way Manila to Hong Kong).
Leave incentive to take Hawaii to protect Asia.

Think of a second way to make the city clear. The light colors can be unclear. Perhaps color the text differently, halo the text differently or add a list of cities and what region they belong it below.

Otherwise fantastic. Pls review Prince of the CIty, I'd like your feedback as another fan of simple maps with good gameplay.
You can always add colored lines around your circles but I would freak out if my map doesn't get draft because it looks like yours.


Athens has been removed and replaced by Istanbul. I think the colours of the city might weaken the confusion of what continent it belongs to.
I still strongly recommend adding a route between Asia and Africa...
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Zajnet on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:34 pm

Yeah maybe connect Cairo to Dubai?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sailorseal on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:48 am

I am torn. Part of me loves the straight forward regular old continent by continent style but part of me want to see it be split further.
Could you try both and compare them?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Dublanous1 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:46 pm

I think the idea is great, I usually stick to World 2.1 and I would love this map. My only suggestion is: I know USA has alot of cities, but what about Washington D.C. Boston, and Philadelphia, maybe not Philly or Boston, but Washington D.C. is the nation's capital! I strongly recommend trying to put in D.C.
;) Otherwise, its a great start and I'm suprized someone hasn't thought of it sooner.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:03 am

Dublanous1 wrote:I think the idea is great, I usually stick to World 2.1 and I would love this map. My only suggestion is: I know USA has alot of cities, but what about Washington D.C. Boston, and Philadelphia, maybe not Philly or Boston, but Washington D.C. is the nation's capital! I strongly recommend trying to put in D.C.
;) Otherwise, its a great start and I'm suprized someone hasn't thought of it sooner.


Those are all cities that I wanted to include, but the East Coast is too compact. I don't think I can fit them all in while keeping them close to their actual locations (though I could switch Atlanta to DC and just pretend that its in the proper place ;) )
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:11 am

I for see a major advantage for a player starting with a large army count in the Americas because they only need to control three territories to hold both Americas, you might want to change connection routes to avoid such problems
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:19 pm

Yes, a connection will be added from Seattle to Tokyo to solve that problem, and to allow simplification of the NA borders by taking Tokyo (which won't be easy since its on a different continent)
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Falkomagno on Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:57 am

Falkomagno wrote:Hi¡¡¡
First, I have to say that this is a n awesome idea, since this map can be a trully global map in the site, with the simplicity that we love.

I have some suggestions:

1.Afrika: I think that 4 cities is too few...and the largest city in the continent (and the 15th in the hole world) is out¡¡¡I'm talking about Lagos....that because it's localization can easly added

2.North America. I think that is too many citys here....I know..that is the power of the world but, Atalanta, and even Edmonton....I think that it's too much...we're talking about 11 cities¡¡¡that's South america+Africa+3 cities...plus...I think that Las Vegas..that's is no doubt a World City has so much interconectivity...6....well...I think that it's too much

3. Asia-Oceania....I think that put Jakarta and Manila as oceania cities is confused, I mean, we know that's not true....so,I think in two options:
3.1 Detach the "continents" agrupations...and keep that one
South Pacific
Sub-sahara
Eurasia
Far East
Latin America
Anglo America

In that case...as someone told earlier...put Mexico DF as Latin America and that's it...it would be great really

or 3.2 Keep that continents agrupation, but you can add yakarta and manila to Asia...as they actually are...

btw...isn't Auckland more Important and larger than Wellington?


You are doing great ....


Regards



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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:13 pm

sailorseal wrote:I for see a major advantage for a player starting with a large army count in the Americas because they only need to control three territories to hold both Americas, you might want to change connection routes to avoid such problems


Perhaps add a London to Miami route (as well as the Seattle Japan)... making America harder to defend unless you occupy both Tokyo and London to reduce number of border terits
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:14 pm

Falkomagno wrote:
Falkomagno wrote:Hi¡¡¡
First, I have to say that this is a n awesome idea, since this map can be a trully global map in the site, with the simplicity that we love.

I have some suggestions:

1.Afrika: I think that 4 cities is too few...and the largest city in the continent (and the 15th in the hole world) is out¡¡¡I'm talking about Lagos....that because it's localization can easly added

2.North America. I think that is too many citys here....I know..that is the power of the world but, Atalanta, and even Edmonton....I think that it's too much...we're talking about 11 cities¡¡¡that's South america+Africa+3 cities...plus...I think that Las Vegas..that's is no doubt a World City has so much interconectivity...6....well...I think that it's too much

3. Asia-Oceania....I think that put Jakarta and Manila as oceania cities is confused, I mean, we know that's not true....so,I think in two options:
3.1 Detach the "continents" agrupations...and keep that one
South Pacific
Sub-sahara
Eurasia
Far East
Latin America
Anglo America

In that case...as someone told earlier...put Mexico DF as Latin America and that's it...it would be great really

or 3.2 Keep that continents agrupation, but you can add yakarta and manila to Asia...as they actually are...

btw...isn't Auckland more Important and larger than Wellington?


You are doing great ....


Regards



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I suspect the regions are linked to trade groups so Mexico while Latin A is part of Nafta.
Australia is in APEC although not in Asean. Doesn't matter though.. he can't do a 2 territory ANZ group and preserve balance.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:15 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

List of cities by gdp if u want to use this as an inclusion criteria.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:36 pm

I think the GDP list provides pretty good justification for the majority of cities included. Anybody notice large variances?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:50 pm

Looks like cities by GDP adjusted for spacing and with a slight bias to having reps from each region.
Singapore is on Jave though.. should be to the right at the end of the Malaysian peninsula
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby reggie_mac on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:52 pm

Falkomagno wrote:
btw...isn't Auckland more Important and larger than Wellington?


Im sure Aucklanders would agree with this, but no. Auckalnd may have a larger population but Wellington is the capital of NZ so it would be a more logical choice than Auckland.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:12 pm

Auckland and Wellington is a tough debate. Both are very well known (far and above all other New Zealand cities) but since there is only room for one I chose the capital. This might be similar to a choice between NYC and Washington DC, but in that case I think NY wins because of its sheer size and status in the financial world.

Looks like cities by GDP adjusted for spacing and with a slight bias to having reps from each region.
Singapore is on Jave though.. should be to the right at the end of the Malaysian peninsula


Right you are, I will shift it over in a later version. (I think I had originally picked that spot and called it Jakarta)

Falkomagno wrote:1.Afrika: I think that 4 cities is too few...and the largest city in the continent (and the 15th in the hole world) is out¡¡¡I'm talking about Lagos....that because it's localization can easly added

2.North America. I think that is too many citys here....I know..that is the power of the world but, Atalanta, and even Edmonton....I think that it's too much...we're talking about 11 cities¡¡¡that's South america+Africa+3 cities...plus...I think that Las Vegas..that's is no doubt a World City has so much interconectivity...6....well...I think that it's too much


I think a map needs to have a mix of small and large bonus regions to make interesting gameplay for flat rate and no cards games. That is why I wanted to include two small regions of four cities each, and for a map of cities SA and Africa are the best choices of small regions. Those regions might feel short changed since I am including relatively few cities, but it will actually give them more attention during games because people always shoot for the smaller bonus regions.

Good call on Lagos though, I will switch out Dakar and include that instead.
Falkomagno wrote:3. Asia-Oceania....I think that put Jakarta and Manila as oceania cities is confused, I mean, we know that's not true....so,I think in two options:


Minila and Singapore have strong influences from Asia and Oceania. As with other maps (such as World 2.1) I decided to put them in Oceania because otherwise that region includes only Australia and NZ essentially.

As for your other region suggestions, I think they were good ideas. But I am going to side with the economic trade alliances for the reasons mentioned earlier.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:25 pm

Where is Rome, also known as the capital of the world and the eternal city?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:13 pm

It was there in the beginning Reuben, but Awfully close to Paris and Athens/Istanbul. The two digit numbers would fit, but the three digit numbers would become an issue, especially while trying to maintain clear connections.

I would say Rome was once the capital of the world, but I find it hard to justify Rome instead of Paris. :? Europe is just too small for all of its great cities!
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:00 am

sully800 wrote:It was there in the beginning Reuben, but Awfully close to Paris and Athens/Istanbul. The two digit numbers would fit, but the three digit numbers would become an issue, especially while trying to maintain clear connections.

I would say Rome was once the capital of the world, but I find it hard to justify Rome instead of Paris. :? Europe is just too small for all of its great cities!


My God...blasphemy!

You think Paris is more important than Rome!? Hehe. Anyway can I petition for Rome to be on the map?

Btw I play many games but I never went up to 3 digit figures so the odds of that happening are extremely low.

Edit: I would put Athens instead of Istanbul in there as well!
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:39 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:
sully800 wrote:It was there in the beginning Reuben, but Awfully close to Paris and Athens/Istanbul. The two digit numbers would fit, but the three digit numbers would become an issue, especially while trying to maintain clear connections.

I would say Rome was once the capital of the world, but I find it hard to justify Rome instead of Paris. :? Europe is just too small for all of its great cities!


My God...blasphemy!

You think Paris is more important than Rome!? Hehe. Anyway can I petition for Rome to be on the map?

Btw I play many games but I never went up to 3 digit figures so the odds of that happening are extremely low.

Edit: I would put Athens instead of Istanbul in there as well!


The problem is its not just Paris, its the Paris/Madrid/Istanbul region surrounding Romes old spot. The cities are nicely distributed right now in Europe I think, but putting Rome in makes things very crowded.

And I agree that three digit numbers are the exception, not the rule. But they still happen frequently enough to be considered in cartography. Additional, the color blind codes make all two digit numbers 3 characters long so it can really cause problems.

I'm certainly open to changing Istanbul back to Athens. That's how I had it originally and switched based on a suggestion. Anyone else have an opinion on the matter?
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Merciless Wong on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:21 am

Change NY to Brooklyn - then you have Italians covered anyways... and don't need Rome. NY humor.
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:25 am

Merciless Wong wrote:Change NY to Brooklyn - then you have Italians covered anyways... and don't need Rome. NY humor.


Is this supposed to be a joke? :-s
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Re: World Cities (V3, 3/30/09)

Postby sully800 on Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:29 am

Yeah he's kidding, but got me at first too!

Been busy the past few weeks but beginning of may i can do some updates
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