Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

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Re: Map Incubator Experiment

Postby oaktown on Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:07 pm

cairnswk wrote:
whitestazn88 wrote:i suppose cairns and i would make a solid foundation for the b-team lol

That's nicely positive isn't it? :)

indeed... in putting together the first group it was clear that we had the makings of two, but with gimil away from his computer for a bit now wasn't the time. I'm keeping a running list of volunteers, so when we see how this first round goes we'll consider another.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment

Postby captainwalrus on Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:23 pm

How does a map get chosen to be incubated?
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby oaktown on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:28 pm

Four weeks ago I posted a call out for folks to join me in a little experiment. Just over two weeks into the actual implementation phase I am prepared to declare this little experiment a failure.

I've sent out several PMs to the folks involved... at first I was just asking for them to acknowledge that they'd received the PM, and I received only one response. Since then I've asked them to stop by each of our four threads and make a quick "hello" post, which didn't happen. Then I got more specific and gave everyone an assignment, which only one member has done. In fact, the total number of posts left in the target threads by members other than me is ten, and those have all been by one individual (who is also a site moderator). The other seven members have totaled zero posts by my count - maybe I missed one or two, but in searching their recent post histories I see no foundry activity at all for some of them.

I'm not going to knock myself out trying to get folks to do something they clearly don't want to do (even if they volunteered). Those involved should never again criticize the Foundry,its leadership, or its mapmakers for work that they themselves were unwilling to do.

And as I don't want this to turn into yet another foundry bitch session, I'll be asking that this thread be locked.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby Kotaro on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:32 pm

Oak, don't give up on this. Honestly, with the crew you picked, I'm not overly surprised. Pick better and try again, and it'll work.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:37 pm

Kotaro wrote:Oak, don't give up on this. Honestly, with the crew you picked, I'm not overly surprised. Pick better and try again, and it'll work.

Yes, why don't you give team 2 a go. I for one will be in there ( with nice positive stuff) ;)
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby RjBeals on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:37 pm

you've got so much heart oaktown. At least you tried.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby Kotaro on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:39 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Oak, don't give up on this. Honestly, with the crew you picked, I'm not overly surprised. Pick better and try again, and it'll work.

Yes, why don't you give team 2 a go. I for one will be in there ( with nice positive stuff) ;)


Exactly. Give Team2 a go.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:52 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Oak, don't give up on this. Honestly, with the crew you picked, I'm not overly surprised. Pick better and try again, and it'll work.

Yes, why don't you give team 2 a go. I for one will be in there ( with nice positive stuff) ;)


And to add to that, Oak, isn't everyone on summer holidays in the north, possibly why there hasn't been much activity lately in the foundry and why people haven't answered your PMs
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby oaktown on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:03 am

Well, you would think that in a group of eight volunteers - most of whom have been active in other forums and playing games - somebody besides the token moderator in the bunch would make at least one post. I figured there'd be some attrition, but 90% in the first three weeks? Ouch.

Anyone else who would like to give this a try is welcome to do so... nobody said I'm the only one that can make this work. I've given a lot of hours to CC over the past three years, and spending additional hours trying to get folks to do something they wouldn't do otherwise is not my idea of time well spent.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby john9blue on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:45 am

This has turned out strangely like the Mapmakers Guild...

Is mapmaking really that daunting for new cartographers? :(
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby RedBaron0 on Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:29 am

As a newer mapmaker, it does seem daunting, but I can tell you I think I can see both sides of the equation here. It's like this:

The game is based on the creation of maps. Without maps to play on, there is no game, period. Most of the population doesn't really bother with the process, taking for granted it actually happens, and will also complain about it... When someone who doesn't make maps tries the process just seems to go against the work being done. And watching other maps go through the process it may seem that a new mapmaker is being picked on. It's a patience issue really.

The daunting part of map making, to me, seems to be those that do post and comment, while usually polite and insightful, seem to go around in circles. One person thinks the bonus value should be 3 another thinks it should be 4, both make good arguments on the subject, so you go up and down, up and down... It happens with most aspects of map making, some like the way this text looks, or that picture, this rule, etc. and others don't. It can be very frustrating. The work put into maps is slow and tedious.

I dunno, maybe something that might be really helpful for drafts and as a part of this process (or on its own) might be testing the map with actual gameplay. Seeing the map being used will point out tons of issues. It is quite different to SAY "think about if you would want to start on this territory..." and actually PLAYING the territory during a game. For this to work you would need to reach a graphical bench mark, and have the know how to code the XML. Eh, could be worth a try.

Either way, if you want some help with this oaktown, I can chip in too on the "B" team. ;)
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby squishyg on Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:04 am

I'm not sure who your A-Team was, but maybe you should cast a wider net for your first time out on this experiment. I'm a community organizer, and if I need 20 people for a project, I ask 50 and sign up 30. And these are people who are already committed to the organization . If you're starting something new, you do need to expect higher attrition. Yes, it's frustrating, but that's how these things work.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby Kotaro on Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:13 am

oaktown wrote:Anyone else who would like to give this a try is welcome to do so... nobody said I'm the only one that can make this work. I've given a lot of hours to CC over the past three years, and spending additional hours trying to get folks to do something they wouldn't do otherwise is not my idea of time well spent.


To be quite honest Oak, I don't give enough of a damn about CC, with the way it has changed in the past few months alone, to dedicate hours of my time organizing anything to help out the site. Would I give my assistance on a group helping to get me more content for the money I paid? Hell yes. But I won't go so far as to run anything like this myself. Maybe when gimil decides drinking himself under the table isn't a good use of his time, then this idea might sprout.

Nice try anyways.
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Re: Map Incubator Experiment (Failed)

Postby iancanton on Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:37 am

oaktown wrote:And as I don't want this to turn into yet another foundry bitch session, I'll be asking that this thread be locked.

as requested, locked for the time being.

ian. :)
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