Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[DoomYoshi]

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to vote jak but this behavior is actually fairly par for the course from jak. Same thing happened in Psychology mafia. if Jak thinks you are scum, he won't shift from that position unless you've been 105% cleared and game facts are either twisted or ignored. if you happen to think that Jak is wrong in his position (particularly to the extent of voting him) well you're probably scum to.

I remain adamant about aage , I am 95% convinced he is scum. Which is more than I can say about the other cases on the board.

I agree with this, especially now that vodean flipped.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, last post for today. I skimmed most of day 3. Jak and Jgordon... thank God they are both dead. What a dumb misunderstanding.

[DRoZ]

My "things going sour" was in reference to the growing distrust towards me, not a night kill possibility. If I recall correctly, there were 3 or so votes on me at the time. I suppose I could have rolled out the popular, "no guys seriously, I am important" but you and I both know I would have been asked to claim eventually, and my watcher status would have been known anyway. Not to mention, waiting till the last moment to claim never really gains much trust, it tends to look desperate. Look at what happened to jak... With the deadline approaching, my early claim allowed us to focus on a hopefully more fruitful search. Delaying that would not have benefitted the town in the slightest.

As for your doubts of my abilities, my watcher status has been corroborated by two other players.

As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.

As an aside, are you seriously trying to offer better gameplay tips to the scum?

[aage]

Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.

Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

[aage]

Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.

Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.

[DoomYoshi]

Not to mention, waiting till the last moment to claim never really gains much trust, it tends to look desperate.

As for your doubts of my abilities, my watcher status has been corroborated by two other players.

As an aside, are you seriously trying to offer better gameplay tips to the scum?

Not true. Claiming before L-2 is scummy. I actually appreciate the MS meta more (claiming at L-1, but only if someone declares intent to hammer) but that's neither here nor there.

I didn't say I doubt your abilities. Mafia Watcher is a legitimate role.

Yea, it's how I figure out what mafia is up to.

Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.

Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.

Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

[DoomYoshi]

Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.

So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.

[aage]

Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.

Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.

Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

I thought you meant Droz was both... Though on 25 players I can't say I'm surprised both roles are there. There was mention of a cult in the Angel win condition, remember? And two town people were blocked last night, both investigative roles, so scum was probably behind it. I don't think it's such a superpower-combo as you make it look.

Besides, what would a mafia watcher gain from claiming to have been blocked? He could easily just give the results and leave out the bits that hurt his team. Unless you blocked him, of course...?

Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.

So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.

I don't think he was referring to that specific post, but rather to the other 5.

[strike wolf]

Actually, f*ck this.

vote Droz

For one thing, Town Watcher/Tracker is a super-power combo.

Can you link me to the post where this was claimed? I don't recall this.

ebwop obviously referring to the "tracker"-part. We know he is a watcher.

Lovo flipped tracker. Or do you not believe edoc?

I thought you meant Droz was both... Though on 25 players I can't say I'm surprised both roles are there. There was mention of a cult in the Angel win condition, remember? And two town people were blocked last night, both investigative roles, so scum was probably behind it. I don't think it's such a superpower-combo as you make it look.

Besides, what would a mafia watcher gain from claiming to have been blocked? He could easily just give the results and leave out the bits that hurt his team. Unless you blocked him, of course...?

Flawed. Town could easily have blocked him, in which case it would be in his best interest not to make up a result.

Not this again...

I forgot one reply.

As for you, all I have seen from your incessant posting is regurgitation of other peoples theories without bothering to check up and see if they hold water later. Here's an idea... buy a notepad, write down things that pique your interest and follow along to see their storylines progress, post your findings upon completion... Otherwise you are just creating more noise in a thread already chock-full of it. I appreciate you taking the time to dredge through all of this, but be conscious of the fact that you may be doing more harm than good.

So the fact that Lovo flipped tracker and that makes it almost impossible for you to be a town watcher has been regurgitated? If you can quote where, I will unvote.

I would actually argue the Tracker/watcher part. In my time of having balance checks and playing, the strength of having a watcher and tracker seems to be something that mods don't always agree on.

[DoomYoshi]

I was unimpressed at best by today. There was a lot shit getting thrown around that really had noting to do with the game. Keep it clean, keep your cases objective, and play a better game tomorrow.

Well said.

Hensow ~ Ignatius of Laconi Saint ~ Suicide Reviver has committed suicide
Gregwolf has returned to life

Well done. Some would argue to hold off on these things, but I 100% agree with this choice.

We have to wait to hear from Chap before we can do anything official, but I think Vodean and JG are in our sights now.

No,Really. What a damn shock. you HAVE played this game before. But before you set your sights for dead accuracy,reread why I went after Jak and tell me I was wrong. He had way to much Crazy crap going on and I stand behind every point I made on him,except for the small problem of him not being scum.

So now we start the defense and deflection. And there isn't even any pressure on him yet.

If your starting a BW go ahead, I admitted to screwing the pooch with Jak. Thats what I stated in previous post in case you were not paying attention.

And why I quoted you so you might look at it,and think about what went down and how. Defense yes, I now have to admit I blew it,but Jak's game play helped out with that. So deflection not really.

Read it out again carefully, if you disagree with me then, it is what it is. A few things still not adding up but I pegged Jak on his play and I was wrong.

JG. look. we fucked up. lets try to move on without getting all defensive.
town, scum wouldnt out two of themselves to get one townie, would they? no. thats a ridiculous trade. especially to kill a vote stealer, and especially early on. so dont be so defensive, you are only making yourself worse. you are town, and i am not anti-town, so act like it. dont paint yourself as scummy (i know, strange coming from me). there is a better way to convince town that we are on their side than to point fingers all over the place. lets hear some results from last night, and then make a logical decision rather than an emotional one.

Vodean, this is honestly your best post ever. I don't mean the content, which is fine. The fact that you tie yourself to jgordon so effortlessly was brilliant though.

So day 4 was almost as bad as day 3. Really, why wouldn't droz say who he watched? He obviously watched chap. If he didn't, kill him. It's not a tough concept.

The problem here is that people are falling back on safe things to say. For example, vodean fell back on "waiting for night actions" and others are falling back on "dont tell people where you are going with your protective roles" without actually realizing that in this case it doesn't make any sense. I am going to start day 5 now.

[DoomYoshi]

@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

[DoomYoshi]

@strike: a quick search of edoc's posts shows that he is in the "Watcher is OP" crowd with me.

[DoomYoshi]

[quote="edocsil']
So some basics. Very small 7 - 11 man game. It has one cop and 2 or 3 scum. That is just how it works. A small game like this has 3 scum and perhaps a SK, a cop and a watcher/tracker (not both) a doc and perhaps a JOAT if there is a lot of town power. The other roles are lesser ones. It does not have 3 or 4 out of the town 11 roles being investigative unless this is a mafia with crazy powerful roles (read: impossible to balance) If you have vanilla masons like SG and I that is a strong indication of only middling town power, not a super investigation squad of tracker watcher cop. Mid sized games (20-25 players) MIGHT have a cop watcher tracker trio, while big games (30+) will almost certainly have the trio.
[/quote]

So he may have included a tracker with a watcher. I guess it isn't as cut and dry in his mind as it is mine. I still call bs on droz though, especially for the Day 4 dilly-dally.

Fluff my muffins.

[VioIet]

So day 4 was almost as bad as day 3. Really, why wouldn't droz say who he watched? He obviously watched chap. If he didn't, kill him. It's not a tough concept.

I have a theory for this. It is something that popped into my mind immediately, once Droz stated that he didn't want to reveal what he saw.

He most likely did watch Chapcrap and saw someone visit Chap. However, he has no idea whether the visit was positive or negative. All he knows is that Chap didn't die from it. Droz likely wanted to wait and see whether something negative happened to chap (role-blocked, bus-driven, silenced, etc). Chap had been inactive the previous night & day, so there was no way to find out for sure. For instance, he may have been blocked. But since he didn't use his role, a block was fruitless anyway. Also, there would be no way to know, since he didn't try to use his role.

In short, if Droz doesn't know what the person did, he may not want to say anything just yet. It could just lead to unnecessarily attracting attention to a player before the proper time.

Just a theory, and I could be wrong, but that is my hunch so far.

[aage]

@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Exactly. But if he wasn't roleblocked and he was mafia, it would be pretty strange to claim to have been roleblocked, as I explained in my previous post. Maybe I should have stressed that with "claimed to have been roleblocked" I meant "lie about being roleblocked", I thought that was obvious.
All we know is that his vote is gone, so obviously he wasn't lying about that. That lends some credibility to his roleblock-claim by my book.

@SW, see my reply to DY. I think you misinterpreted what I said.