Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:48 pm

In this post aage reveals he is not an angel, and that humans are probably not town:

I think it should be mentioned that we shouldn't disregard the possibility that humans and angels have different win conditions, since if the subvert-thing is in the angel role pm but not in the human role pm. It's not in my role pm anyway, I found out about it through Lsu's and jgordon's posts, so I suppose it is also not in Jak's (or violet's, or other claimed humans') role pms.


In this post (after several of defending droz), aage admits he does not think droz is scum:
aage wrote:
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Exactly. But if he wasn't roleblocked and he was mafia, it would be pretty strange to claim to have been roleblocked, as I explained in my previous post. Maybe I should have stressed that with "claimed to have been roleblocked" I meant "lie about being roleblocked", I thought that was obvious.
All we know is that his vote is gone, so obviously he wasn't lying about that. That lends some credibility to his roleblock-claim by my book.

@SW, see my reply to DY. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

ebwop

So following that reasoning, claiming to have been blocked if he were a mafia watcher whilst in fact he wasn't blocked would make no sense to do... hence we can conclude that either he is town and lying (which is okay, really, since he's town and I won't be voting him) or he is any alignment and was genuinely roleblocked, and therefore I see no reason to suspect him. Watcher is a pretty useful role to keep alive, and I'm not at all convinced that he must be scum.


In this post, aage admits that there is "no" case on jonty. I took a leap and logic and assumed that meant he thinks jonty is not scum (i.e. is town).
aage wrote:
jonty125 wrote:
F1fth wrote:It would be nice to hear from Safari, but in the interest of moving things along I'm going to Vote Jonty.



My crime?

Being on the list :roll:


Based on the first post, and his claim of human, and his pretend denial of defending both droz and jonty, I am now going into the 90%+ range of scum with aage, compared to 99%+ range with jonty.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby aage on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:10 pm

In this post Doom mixes up alignment with win condition, and claims to be an Angel (Good luck tonight, idiot. I already explained earlier why claiming to be an angel is suicide.):
DoomYoshi wrote:In this post aage reveals he is not an angel, and that humans are probably not town:
I think it should be mentioned that we shouldn't disregard the possibility that humans and angels have different win conditions, since if the subvert-thing is in the angel role pm but not in the human role pm. It's not in my role pm anyway, I found out about it through Lsu's and jgordon's posts, so I suppose it is also not in Jak's (or violet's, or other claimed humans') role pms.

In this post Doom doesn't understand I'm fighting his arguments, not his point, as he's too agressive for my liking and currently even twisting around my words to make them fit his case. You know who I want to be lynched, and letting someone else get lynched is not my agenda.
DoomYoshi wrote:In this post (after several of defending droz), aage admits he does not think droz is scum:
aage wrote:
aage wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:@aage: what? Where do we have proof that he was roleblocked?

Exactly. But if he wasn't roleblocked and he was mafia, it would be pretty strange to claim to have been roleblocked, as I explained in my previous post. Maybe I should have stressed that with "claimed to have been roleblocked" I meant "lie about being roleblocked", I thought that was obvious.
All we know is that his vote is gone, so obviously he wasn't lying about that. That lends some credibility to his roleblock-claim by my book.

@SW, see my reply to DY. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

ebwop

So following that reasoning, claiming to have been blocked if he were a mafia watcher whilst in fact he wasn't blocked would make no sense to do... hence we can conclude that either he is town and lying (which is okay, really, since he's town and I won't be voting him) or he is any alignment and was genuinely roleblocked, and therefore I see no reason to suspect him. Watcher is a pretty useful role to keep alive, and I'm not at all convinced that he must be scum.

In this post, Doom missed the entire sentence that made up my post. All the 'case' you have on Jonty is his presence on the list and his current behavior which he didn't show earlier.
DoomYoshi wrote:In this post, aage admits that there is "no" case on jonty. I took a leap and logic and assumed that meant he thinks jonty is not scum (i.e. is town).
aage wrote:
jonty125 wrote:
F1fth wrote:It would be nice to hear from Safari, but in the interest of moving things along I'm going to Vote Jonty.



My crime?

Being on the list :roll:


DoomYoshi wrote:Based on the first post, and his claim of human, and his pretend denial of defending both droz and jonty, I am now going into the 90%+ range of scum with aage, compared to 99%+ range with jonty.
Le sigh. Clearly you're not at all biased when you're voting for the lower percentage. Oh well, your vote, not mine.

I hope the rest of town is able to make a properly informed decision.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby jonty125 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:40 pm

Rodion wrote:Tl;dr: I'd like Jonty and Soundman to claim.


Sorry Rodion, I aren't claiming unless there is more backing from other players.

DoomYoshi wrote:compared to 99%+ range with jonty.


I wouldn't be so sure, but then again, I have 100% confidence I'm town.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:31 pm

I'm cop-confirmed town. Me and Vio are already the biggest targets theoretically.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby gregwolf121 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:43 pm

well i think the only way to move on is for those on the list to claim, and from that list we only need jonty and soundman to do so, therefore i also want jonty and soundman to claim
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby F1fth on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:34 pm

I will also throw my support behind the motion to have soundman and jonty claim.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - N3 22/25

Postby soundman on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:47 pm

Here's the night scene I was thinking of:
edocsil wrote:An Archangel sat and watched the shadows. Shapes flickered in the night, and until now, there were none he could be sure he could trust. He had stayed his hand to long now, and now he must act. He took a massive greatsword from his back. It was a colossal thing, no human could have wielded it. In truth it was never meant to be used to kill, it was a totem of the angels power that he received from Yahweh. He chose his target and slammed the sword into the ground, burying it into the earth. A golden shield rose up from the sword and protected its target against the horrors of the night. So the angel stood until dawn came.

It kinda sounds like a JOAT thing to me not a doc role, so aage could be telling the truth.

DoomYoshi wrote:I'm cop-confirmed town. Me and Vio are already the biggest targets theoretically.

Unless one of you are the GF... Also there is a possibility that you're on the initial vote count lynch due to the stolen vote.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - N3 22/25

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:51 pm

soundman wrote:Here's the night scene I was thinking of:
edocsil wrote:An Archangel sat and watched the shadows. Shapes flickered in the night, and until now, there were none he could be sure he could trust. He had stayed his hand to long now, and now he must act. He took a massive greatsword from his back. It was a colossal thing, no human could have wielded it. In truth it was never meant to be used to kill, it was a totem of the angels power that he received from Yahweh. He chose his target and slammed the sword into the ground, burying it into the earth. A golden shield rose up from the sword and protected its target against the horrors of the night. So the angel stood until dawn came.

It kinda sounds like a JOAT thing to me not a doc role, so aage could be telling the truth.

DoomYoshi wrote:I'm cop-confirmed town. Me and Vio are already the biggest targets theoretically.

Unless one of you are the GF... Also there is a possibility that you're on the initial vote count lynch due to the stolen vote.


This post reeks of scum. Rather than deal with the problem at hand (which of the 3 is scum), soundman just adds to the confusion.

Sorry, droz, turns out you are town after all. I don't like your recent silence though.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - N3 22/25

Postby soundman on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:59 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
soundman wrote:Here's the night scene I was thinking of:
edocsil wrote:An Archangel sat and watched the shadows. Shapes flickered in the night, and until now, there were none he could be sure he could trust. He had stayed his hand to long now, and now he must act. He took a massive greatsword from his back. It was a colossal thing, no human could have wielded it. In truth it was never meant to be used to kill, it was a totem of the angels power that he received from Yahweh. He chose his target and slammed the sword into the ground, burying it into the earth. A golden shield rose up from the sword and protected its target against the horrors of the night. So the angel stood until dawn came.

It kinda sounds like a JOAT thing to me not a doc role, so aage could be telling the truth.

DoomYoshi wrote:I'm cop-confirmed town. Me and Vio are already the biggest targets theoretically.

Unless one of you are the GF... Also there is a possibility that you're on the initial vote count lynch due to the stolen vote.


This post reeks of scum. Rather than deal with the problem at hand (which of the 3 is scum), soundman just adds to the confusion.

Sorry, droz, turns out you are town after all. I don't like your recent silence though.

I'm not adding to the confusion. I'm saying that it's entirely possible that the three anti-town are not all in those four. It could easily be you or Vio, or both in some cases. I find it scummy that as soon as I bring up that point you call me scum and try to downplay what I've said. Got something to hide?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby NoSurvivors on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:01 pm

jonty125 wrote:
Rodion wrote:Tl;dr: I'd like Jonty and Soundman to claim.


Sorry Rodion, I aren't claiming unless there is more backing from other players.

DoomYoshi wrote:compared to 99%+ range with jonty.


I wouldn't be so sure, but then again, I have 100% confidence I'm town.


Ill back one from soundman, but not you.. Idk how I feel about you yet..
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby strike wolf on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Before I continue. safari. do you know if your role senses all non-town including corrupted humans or justdemons?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - N3 22/25

Postby Rodion on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:30 am

soundman wrote:It could easily be you or Vio, or both in some cases.


I was under the impression that Saf's investigations behaved just like Chap's, meaning he'd be tricked by a possible godfather (it could in fact be 5 out of 12 if Violet or Doom are GF), but I don't really know that.

[color=#FF0000]Edoc, can you confirm or deny?[/color]
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby Rodion on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:32 am

EBWOP:

soundman wrote:It could easily be you or Vio, or both in some cases.


I was under the impression that Saf's investigations behaved just like Chap's, meaning he'd be tricked by a possible godfather (it could in fact be 5 out of 12 if Violet or Doom are GF), but I don't really know that.

Edoc, can you confirm or deny?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby VioIet on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:41 am

DoomYoshi wrote:I'm cop-confirmed town. Me and Vio are already the biggest targets theoretically.


Is this because I claimed already?

Rodion wrote:
soundman wrote:It could easily be you or Vio, or both in some cases.


I was under the impression that Saf's investigations behaved just like Chap's, meaning he'd be tricked by a possible godfather (it could in fact be 5 out of 12 if Violet or Doom are GF), but I don't really know that.

[color=#FF0000]Edoc, can you confirm or deny?[/color]


Well technically, I've been investigated twice. And anyone could be the GF, so that point seems almost moot. Also, I don't think Edoc can respond to something like that. I think whether or not the GF is investigative-immune should not be revealed during the duration of the game.

Also, I think we should keep in mind that there are more scum in the game than just those three: (aage, soundman, jonty). There has to be at least two more besides them. While I know we want to focus on these three right now, I think everyone should keep that thought in the back of his/her minds.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby edocsil on Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:07 pm

Rodion wrote:EBWOP:

soundman wrote:It could easily be you or Vio, or both in some cases.


I was under the impression that Saf's investigations behaved just like Chap's, meaning he'd be tricked by a possible godfather (it could in fact be 5 out of 12 if Violet or Doom are GF), but I don't really know that.

Edoc, can you confirm or deny?


Why would I do that? I can't recall any mod saying GF powers vs investigation. In other news, ill have a VC up tomorrow, but no one is even close to being lynched atm.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DRoZ on Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:13 pm

I am not sure why you continue to have this insistence on tying myself and aage together, Doom. As far as I can tell, all he did was attack your reasoning behind coming after me, while a number of others have done the exact same thing without drawing your ire. I would also like to point out that you continue to try to persuade others of your townliness, without much provocation, even going as far to say that you would be one of the mafia's primary targets, merely because a cop investigated you. These tend to not be the words of an honest man. Now you seem to grow tired of grasping for straws after me, and moving on to other targets, hopefully this is a sign of you coming to your senses, and not because myself and others are beginning to doubt your intentions.

As for aage, I agree with the sentiments earlier, that this doctor claim could be just a ploy to out an actual doctor. I assumed a doctor would be an angel, but it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibilities for him to be a saint. This could also be a plan to draw protective and investigative night roles, should he make it through the day. But it would be foolish for a doctor to counter claim.

My thoughts on whether or not soundman and jonty should claim... as soon as we learned of chaps ability, it was only a matter of time before all of us would be pressured to claim, so any mafia on that list should have thought the same and had plenty of time to come up with a well thought out claim, possibly even vetting it through their fellow scum over these past few nights, so I would assume should they claim, they will be good ones. I am certainly more interested in soundman's claim over jonty's, although I recall being very suspicious of jonty early on, but unfortunately I cannot recall why.

My apologies for not having much time to post over the past week or so, I have had a ton of end of year assessments at work due late last week as well as well as many more due next week.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby Rodion on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:40 pm

edocsil wrote:Why would I do that? I can't recall any mod saying GF powers vs investigation. In other news, ill have a VC up tomorrow, but no one is even close to being lynched atm.


That's not what I meant. We always assume cop investigations not to work against godfathers. I just wanted to know whether Chap's investigation had the same weakness or if it did not.


Anyway, a lot of people want Soundman to claim with a little less players wanting to hear from Jonty. Strike also has a question to Saf "before he continues", which might end up being a lead. I'm going to wait until people talk.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby soundman on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:17 pm

Well my claiming will probably be more helpful to town than mafia. I'm Saint Clotilde, Beloved Princess.

I'm pretty suspicious of Doom right now but will wait till Jonty claims and Strike asks his question.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby Rodion on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 pm

That's pretty suspicious.

Anyway, Soundman flipping scum would give some "relief" to the other 3 (Aage, Droz, Jonty), as that would send Strike back to the pool (remember that directing us away from Soundman and into Rishaed is only a town-tell if Soundman is town). We could be looking at Soundman scum and 2 out of 4 among Aage, Droz, Jonty and Strike (again assuming we trust Safari).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DRoZ on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:05 pm

Should this claim be true, it could indicate a King Clovis character, who was a pretty important conversion for catholicism, lending a bit of credence to the whole third party conversion faction theory floating around out there.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby safariguy5 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:51 am

I'm just told whether the target is guilty or not. My role PM WC leads me to believe humans can be converted to scum, but as I've said before, I don't need to kill those humans to win. As far as I know, I'd think that a godfather would be immune to my investigation (i.e. turn up innocent).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby jonty125 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:46 am

OK. I'm Gabriel and I'm an archangel. I choose a target each night and if they've been converted to the demon side, I convert them back.
War doesn't determine who's right; it determines who's left.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:23 am

Now with all claims out, Rodion can verify jonty's.

Saf has spoken, we are waiting on input from strike and then I will decide whose lynch I support most.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:27 am

BTW saf, N3 seems like an odd time to investigate Vio, why not on N1 or 2 when she was more in the spotlight? Was there something that com9 said that tripped you or were you just going for a (more-or-less) inactive player?
Mark Yakich wrote:6. If you don’t know a word, look it up or die.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D6 17/25

Postby Rodion on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:01 pm

Jonty's claim has freaked me out. My flavour spec for the game now is 18-7 with 11 saints, 7 angels and 7 demons. However, it seems one of the 7 demons works like a mafia recruiter, getting saints to join the demons. This seems really bad and I hope I'm wrong regarding this mafia recruiter possibility.

Anyway, vote Soundman.

Absent any counterclaims, he has to die.

Depending on how powerful Soundman's role is (such as the "mafia recruiter" dude), Strike is more or less implicated as scum #2.
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