[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

[MoB Deadly]

Betiko if you are really town, and the mafia really did roleblock you JUST to make you more scummy. Realize that you are doing a greater deed for the entire town. Since they roleblocked you, Little Witt got to give out all his presents. We will be fine even if you are lynched tomorrow, we will deliver you a GA medal, do not worry!

[Little Witt]

Gosh you guys post a lot.

Again I can tell you who I gifted tonight if you need to.

But just an fyi I also gifted IB last night.

[pancakemix]

Betiko has apologized for his outburst, so I don't think anything further chastising is necessary. I will say there's no need to discuss egos or nationalities or anything of the like, so please keep it clean from here on. It's just a game.

[betiko]

Betiko if you are really town, and the mafia really did roleblock you JUST to make you more scummy. Realize that you are doing a greater deed for the entire town. Since they roleblocked you, Little Witt got to give out all his presents. We will be fine even if you are lynched tomorrow, we will deliver you a GA medal, do not worry!

he is indeed. My point is that if we move this to the betiko/mets debate:
1) if I'm lynched, you will see I'm town and will realize the whole plot. Like I said, I'm willing to sacrifice myself to make that point. Mafia is keeping me alive so all that I say only looks like scummy wifom. Mets could be viged tonight.
2) if mets is lynched and turns out to be scum as I've been saying since my second post on this game, we would either get rid of the roleblocker or the gift stealer, and we would pretty much clear me out for once and for good. If I'm wrong, I have to say that from my perspective I've partly ruined town's chances as you will have no other options than lynching me the next day for this wrong lead. But from your perspective, this would be a scum catch.

My prime suspects are of course mets, and I'm leaning towards rishaed for the second scum, as his roleclaim makes little sense if you look at the night 2 scene as I've already said. The drummer boy basically started walking in alone in the snow with his lamb and got killed. I think it's extremely odd that PCM would mention his character in the scene if this character is in the game and had nothing to do with that night action. I might be overthinking this, but please tak this into consideration. Also it would explain the day 1 first fight where I started being suspicious about rishaed about the gift stealing mechanic and mets threw back the fire at me.
Also, as I've already said, if by christmas magic they managed to get a town to become scum, that would be gustaf.

[Metsfanmax]

betiko, one of the reasons I am going against you personally so hard much more than mets, is because I KNOW how competitive and smart you are. Other players that are mafia would not play as aggressive as you are.

This is the major reason why I'm not presently pushing the betiko case as hard as you are. The facts all seem to line up, for me, to indicate that betiko is scum. Nevertheless, the way he brazenly talks, is so aggressive that I'm not 100% confident. He came so close to getting lynched on D3, and right now he's openly saying we should lynch either himself or me. He has to know that in a vote right now, he would lose, and if he is scum, that would be a huge blow for them. I know it's partially WIFOM, but it's something to consider.

[anamainiacks]

betiko pretty much sums up my thoughts with this quote:

here is one: I received a gift from witt last night. he didn't get roleblocked. So if they didn't NK, they didn't roleblock gustaf, witt or edoc, they didn't steal gifts (as far as we know) what was mafia up to last night????????

One of the main reasons I'm taken by betiko's suggestion so far, is because the scum had 3 people that it would've been great to roleblock - Gustaf, Mets, Witt - if we assume that everyone's claims are true (which some aren't, obviously). Yet, betiko seems to have been roleblocked. To me, that's a pretty stupid risk for the scum to take. Even if they did want to take the chance of their kill target (according to Mets, being Gustaf) being protected, why didn't they roleblock Witt? Unless of course, betiko's pulling the wool over our eyes and didn't actually get roleblocked... But then where was the other scum action?

There is the very strong possibility that the scum are using this point for a long-term way to go under the town's scum radar. I mean, 6-1-2 doesn't present very high odds, and if one of them were already under suspicion, this would be a great way - with a huge risk that might pay off - to survive the next few lynches.

I'm not sure where I stand on the Mets/betiko debate - I was more inclined to think of betiko as scum prior to Night 4, but the outcome of it all has me very confused. To me, if betiko was indeed roleblocked, someone was very eager to prevent betiko from proving his town allegiance, and Mets comes up higher on my scumdar.



Another thing that has come up, is IB's claim of having 2 gifts and now being able to use Christmas magic. While reading through, my initial thoughts were that he, as scum, might be taking advantage of the fact that Witt was keeping quiet to claim that he got 2 gifts last night (mine and Witt's). But since Witt has confirmed this, it does leave the very tempting possibility of Christmas magic coming into play. After all, if IB is scum, he wouldn't be a gift doubler, and wouldn't be able to use his gift for Christmas magic, and probably not an action either, with all the actions the scum have already performed. So if IB doesn't use any Christmas magic tonight for the town, we can also know for sure he's scum. So... that might be a possible risk for us to take?

[Metsfanmax]

Honestly, I'm not even convinced that the mafia have a roleblocker. Isn't it at least plausible that their past roleblocks have come from gifts rather than a particular role?

Also, question for PCM: if someone attempts to do something impossible with their christmas magic (like switch the faction of someone who is already in the target faction) will you let us know so we can try again, or is the move wasted?

[anamainiacks]

Honestly, I'm not even convinced that the mafia have a roleblocker. Isn't it at least plausible that their past roleblocks have come from gifts rather than a particular role?

That too is possible... How many confirmed roleblocks do we have so far? Only Gustaf's on N2 and N3? If scum took turns to use a one-shot action, that'd only require 4 gifts...

[betiko]

Honestly, I'm not even convinced that the mafia have a roleblocker. Isn't it at least plausible that their past roleblocks have come from gifts rather than a particular role?

That too is possible... How many confirmed roleblocks do we have so far? Only Gustaf's on N2 and N3? If scum took turns to use a one-shot action, that'd only require 4 gifts...

if gustaf was roleblocked N2, it means that either someone received 2 gifts on night 1, either it's IB who is a gift doubler, but he would need to be both gift doubler and gift stealer, that would be quite unballanced. And no, it would require 5 gifts total as the second trade is 3, not 2 for a gven person (assuming the gift stealer).
I think this is highly unlikely and I think the mafia roleblocks are a natural role, the gift stealing as well. i think that it's much more likely that mafia has been stealing gifts and saving for christmas magic, and I think that it's very likely that they managed to reach at least 4 last night AND that they prefered to use the christmas magic rather than performing a NK.
I don't think that roleblocking me is a bad play at all. Otherwise gustaf would've received my gift along with the message and I would be cleared, at least from his perspective. Mafia didn't know who i would be sending the gift to, so the only safe thing keeping me alive to be still here as a suspect is to roleblock me.

[MoB Deadly]

I was roleblocked Night 1. There is definitely a mafia roleblocker.

[MoB Deadly]

i think that it's much more likely that mafia has been stealing gifts and saving for christmas magic

This is intriguing, but seriously, we can't diverge off the path just for the chance of that happening.

[betiko]

I was roleblocked Night 1. There is definitely a mafia roleblocker.

please tell us more about this. you said something about dropped cards or something, you didn't explain more. Are you sure it's just that you didn't find one of your "childs" on night 1? If I get lynched you will see that i've been telling the truth about this and it doesn't make much sense, I don't see how my gift didn't reach you.

Also, would be nice to confront your roleblock message with the ones gustaf received. I never received any roleblock message.

last thing mob, you said you had interesting information to reveal early this day and you still haven't done it.

By the way, if IB can revive someone, NOS would be nice cause he could reveal that he received my gifts n2 & 3.

[Iron Butterfly]

I was roleblocked Night 1. There is definitely a mafia roleblocker.

please tell us more about this. you said something about dropped cards or something, you didn't explain more. Are you sure it's just that you didn't find one of your "childs" on night 1? If I get lynched you will see that i've been telling the truth about this and it doesn't make much sense, I don't see how my gift didn't reach you.

Also, would be nice to confront your roleblock message with the ones gustaf received. I never received any roleblock message.

last thing mob, you said you had interesting information to reveal early this day and you still haven't done it.

By the way, if IB can revive someone, NOS would be nice cause he could reveal that he received my gifts n2 & 3.

I do not understand why Mob would withhold info beneficial to town. I would be interested in comparing role block messages as well.

[pancakemix]

Also, question for PCM: if someone attempts to do something impossible with their christmas magic (like switch the faction of someone who is already in the target faction) will you let us know so we can try again, or is the move wasted?

Assuming we're talking about Christmas Magic and not a gift exchange, in a situation where the error relied on your ignorance of the other party's situation (such as faction alignment), I'd have to consider that action spent.

For instance, if you choose to make Commander9 a vanilla townie but he's already a vanilla townie, your action is gone and you get no second chances.

[rishaed]

I would like a vote count.
I don't want this thread dying so I'm going to do a small recap.
A. Speed lynching: I feel that even if we decide on a person we should definitely compile our info for the day. Overall we need to use the day to its fullest.
B. Betiko/Mets: this debate has gone on for a few days, and I feel like between the two of the there is a scum.
C. My Take: I'm leaning slightly more Mets than Betiko here. The scum didn't seem to do anything last night, if Mets is scum it's a perfect way to "confirm" his claim. I am betting scum did something to skew Gustafs results last night, they seemed to have blocked him every other night and y wouldn't they block the doc if they were going to NK him, it makes no sense.