[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:47 pm

rishaed wrote:
MoB Deadly wrote:Im done, I give up. I have done what I can for town. I can't believe you guys let one person, Betiko, throw town through mental hoops with insane scenarios.

Unvote. I will periodically check the thread and I will vote with the biggest wagon here on out.

"If you can't beat them, then join them"

I'm actually sorry to hear that. However I can understand where you are coming from right now. I hope it doesn't discourage you from playing in other games though. 8-[


Ill get over it, I am just whining. I am pretty confident I am right but its okay.

Metsfanmax wrote:The "insane cop" theory was literally insane. The "Gustaf was recruited" scenario is clearly not insane. PCM indirectly confirmed that you can use christmas magic to change factions, and Gustaf would be the obvious recruitment choice. At this point, I think the recruitment scenario is at least as likely as my original theory. I'm not just tossing around hypotheticals.


You think someone got 4 presents? You think a present doubler is viable? He could literally get christmas magic by NIGHT 2, just by getting 2 presents on night 1. You think that is balanced to give someone "any power" pretty much? I think it is pretty far fetched.

--------------------------------

I think my theory of just Betiko being scum, and still playing as aggressive and as smart as he can, to get us not vote for IB, and it is working. I think that a very probable theory instead of worrying about all these scenarios that we cannot confirm.

Cant anyone with 2 presents use a cop or tracker ability? Lets just get rid of IB, and I am sure 2 townies have 2 presents right now by night 4 they can use. Edoc's gotta be sittin on presents as the only confirmed townie.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:48 pm

Still nobody can even think of 1 solid reason Betiko could not get his present to me Night 1.......... THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON is that betiko lied about it. Duh.

If anyone can provide me with a single other reason I would love to hear it.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby pancakemix on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:46 pm

Apparently, I have to revise what I said because it's been completely misconstrued:

1. I responded to a hypothetical scenario of which alignment change was the example used, but not the subject. Prior to this post I made no ruling regarding alignment changes. Some players, however, jumped to that conclusion.

2. I'm going to come forward and say that an alignment change would, in fact, be "gamebreaking". My reason for this that town and mafia, by their nature, should not be playing recruiters. To be more specific, a mafia member changed to town will immediately turn on his former scum-mates. If I cannot, in good conscience, allow that to happen, I cannot allow the opposite to occur either. No one would be able to trust anything, and that violates one my fundamental belief when it comes to designing games: there are some things that one should be able to trust. If I take a test on history, I expect the answer to a true/false question to be based on where Colombus landed, not how many ships he had in his fleet. Tricks like switching factions is bastard modding, and so is allowing such a confusion to continue. I'll not be guilty of that.

Thank you for your consideration. If you'd like to discuss this with me further, you may do so via PM. Please proceed with the game.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:29 pm

Ok.

Vote Iron Butterfly
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:31 pm

........ 1 extreme scenario shot down. Let's hope we do not need to hash out another 3-4 scenarios before we warm up to this lynch.

vote Iron Butterfly
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby rishaed on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:53 pm

I just had a thought though. We know IB has two gifts (an and Witt gifted him) wouldn't it be better for Gustaf to vig him tonight? Because PCM didn't say gifts had to be night actions couldn't he have traded them for an 1-shot unlynchable?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:31 pm

rishaed wrote:I just had a thought though. We know IB has two gifts (an and Witt gifted him) wouldn't it be better for Gustaf to vig him tonight? Because PCM didn't say gifts had to be night actions couldn't he have traded them for an 1-shot unlynchable?


and if they roleblock gustaf then his presents are wasted.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Iron Butterfly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:07 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:........ 1 extreme scenario shot down. Let's hope we do not need to hash out another 3-4 scenarios before we warm up to this lynch.

vote Iron Butterfly


Perhaps I missed it. what was this information that you said you had??

What PCM said makes perfect sense. If you notice he did not rule out the resurrection of a player. Nope narry a peep!

I would also like to address my gift doubling role. It has been discounted that it is an overpowered role because I could have xmas magic night two. True, but that would be in the best case scenario and no one knew my role. Second and more important if I used my gifts night two for a resurrection I would need 8 gifts for the next use of an action. I am hardly over powered as I have the same restrictions but have the potential to use actions earlier then others.

It would be safe to say that that is hardly overpowered. It is powerful in that it can help Town in a variety of ways much earlier but my penalty doubles quicker...by using 4 gifts I will need 8 for next gifting.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:42 pm

For you IB.
MoB Deadly wrote:
Betiko wrote:last thing mob, you said you had interesting information to reveal early this day and you still haven't done it.

Dont worry about it, the person that needs to know that information already knows. It is on a need to know basis.



And I am still waiting......

MoB Deadly wrote:Still nobody can even think of 1 solid reason Betiko could not get his present to me Night 1.......... THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON is that betiko lied about it. Duh.

If anyone can provide me with a single other reason I would love to hear it.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:51 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:For you IB.
MoB Deadly wrote:
Betiko wrote:last thing mob, you said you had interesting information to reveal early this day and you still haven't done it.

Dont worry about it, the person that needs to know that information already knows. It is on a need to know basis.



And I am still waiting......

MoB Deadly wrote:Still nobody can even think of 1 solid reason Betiko could not get his present to me Night 1.......... THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON is that betiko lied about it. Duh.

If anyone can provide me with a single other reason I would love to hear it.


betiko said multiple times that he thinks he was roleblocked that night.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Iron Butterfly on Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:44 pm

....Or MoB is lying. Gosh ya think that could be an option??
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:27 am

Mets are u kidding me?
MoB Deadly wrote:I was roleblocked Night 1. There is definitely a mafia roleblocker.


Okay this is a possibility, can you give me one reason why I would lie given this game so far?
Iron Butterfly wrote:....Or MoB is lying. Gosh ya think that could be an option??
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:28 am

And I was the first person to say I slipped on a deck of cards. I would be confirmed if Gustaf could confirm it
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:33 am

MoB Deadly wrote:Mets are u kidding me?
MoB Deadly wrote:I was roleblocked Night 1. There is definitely a mafia roleblocker.



You both contend that you were roleblocked. Since betiko allegedly sent his gift to you, that means one of you is lying.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Little Witt on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:54 pm

Honestly now that PCM confirmed that a player can not change sides and that Gustaf told us he found a mafia, I find it much more believeable and in towns favor to lynch IB. If IB filps town by some weird reason than either 1. Gustaf got bussed. 2. Gustaf is lying and is really mafia but trying to get a town lynched. I doubt 2. but it is still there.

Vote IB

And Betiko your posts seem to be intentionally misleading and slowing this game way down and allowing a possible mafia a chance to escape and lynch. Your roll seems town, but your posts seem too scummy in a way if any of you know what I mean.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 pm

1 more time :)

MoB Deadly wrote:If IB is the gift stealer, then Betko or Mets is most likely Mafia Roleblocker, and animaniacs is clear.

If IB is NOT gift stealer, then Betiko, Mets, and animaniacs are on the list to be a gift stealer. With emphasis on animaniacs.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby pancakemix on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:53 pm

Vote Count

IB - 4 (Gustaf, MoB, Witt, Mets)
Mets - 1 (betiko)
MoB - 1 (IB)
Gustaf - 1 (ani)

9 alive 5 to lynch. Deadline is March 16.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:43 pm

i'll have to reread as i haven't been much around this week end, but what PCM said is at the same time a very good news and something that blurs the game for me.
we know that scums did not and will never be able to recruit, we are not at lylo for sure and if we misslynch we don't lose.

Mob, you are either lying or missinterpretating your night 1 pm. why would you receive some fancy stuff instead of being told you've been roleblocked? my PMs from PCM are never fancy, they go straight to the point.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:35 pm

I am not going to debate it with you, Gustaf should be able to confirm what I said. If he says he didn't get it you can lynch me for lying
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:02 pm

......bump?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:27 pm

you don't want to argue with me! lol

I don't know where things are going in this game to tell the truth, too much wifom in the last couple of pages. i just hope I was wrong and IB is in fact scum. we'll learn things either way.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:30 pm

This is going pretty slowly, and it's not clear we'll garner anything useful in the next couple of days, so can we just speed it up and have someone switch their vote to IB?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby anamainiacks on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:34 am

Sorry, I've been really busy!

Well in the light of PCM's post about switching factions not being possible, unvote.

Could I ask betiko though, why do you still insist on voting for Mets?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:42 am

anamainiacks wrote:Sorry, I've been really busy!

Well in the light of PCM's post about switching factions not being possible, unvote.

Could I ask betiko though, why do you still insist on voting for Mets?


well even in the light of pcm's post there's still a few things that make me frown on his case:

-the biggest being the chuck claim.
Chuck has saved me from a lynch, with a direct benefit of appearing town, at least to me. As you guys are not in my shoes and are unsure of my faction, I know this argument won't mean much, but here is the rest of my reasoning. After gaining such credit in my eyes for saving me on day 3, he gave his reason by telling he was a diviner and that he had checked me out and I was telling the truth. More brownie points for him. Then, he cleared also edoc (who, as I had already said was completely cleared for me) so even more brownie points. What seems like the most logical move in that case after gaining so many brownie points? give some slack to a scummate. So he gives met's rolename. His game was to give enough evidence that he was telling the truth, so I think that if I were scum I would have used that to missguide town on something. I am not sure scum were fully prepared for a massclaim on day 4, and chuck telling 100% the truth would be a wifom masterplay.
Also, the night he supposedly checked mets out he was in fact performing the NK. So when would chuck perform the diviner check?
N1, there was a kill (not done by chuck but by another scum), a roleblock (me or mob), and most possibly a diviner check (no gift stealing as far as we know). Also Jonty was chosen because he clearly softclaimed a power role.
N2 there was a gift stealing (me), a roleblock (gustaf) and a kill on kanin (unknown scum attacker), so no divining that night. Why did they chose kanin? I don't know, but it's very possible that they used their N1 diviner result to chose him; if they had divined mets it would've sounded pretty much like a PR character.
N3 there was a gift stealing (mob), a roleblock (gustaf) and a kill on NOS (performed by chuck). Chuck is supposed to have checked mets that night, which we know is a lie. He could still have met's nameclaim from night 1, but why chose kanin instead of mets night 2?
N4, they are down to 2 scums; no gift stealing, no NK and a roleblock (me). Of course there is a chance that met's story is true. They didn't roleblock gustaf because they were going to kill him. But with a doc around, is that wise? Mets was going to doc witt or gustaf for sure if what he says is true, so did they really go for a 50% odds of success knowing how bad it would look if they failed and gustaf came in with a result? The gift stealer had most likely 4+ presents last night; 2+ for sure. If they didn't perform a successfull NK I still think it's because they used a gift action (normal or christmas magic) and the roleblock, and that if they blocked me rather than gustaf, it's because they were almost sure gustaf would've investigated me and came up with a guilty result. This would've got me lynched and most likely gustaf lynched on day 6.

-th other thing about mets is the list of his night actions.
He really claimed them little by little like someone inventing them on the go. "oh, i've sent a N1 gift to someone already dead". There is absolutely no logical explanation not to give the name straight away and wait to be asked other than gaining time.
"I've sent my night 2 gift to betiko". Precisely the night I got stolen, and knowing how suspicious he had been regarding myself day 1 & 2. When I claimed that I had been stolen day 3 (on night 2), he was arguing about me "inventing" again the gift stealing mechanics. I can understand that as he hadn't claimed, he wouldn't want to reveal his gifting ability. But as he is supposed to be both gifter and doc; wasn't that a great way to draw attention out from scum? being seen as a regular gifter, and actually not lying to town by telling so. In all his suspicions about me on day 3, there is not a hint of someone who finds it very convenient that I got stolen the night he decided not to protect a claimed cop in order to send a gift to his most suspected player.
And last, the doc is a great fakeclaim for a mafia. You can't tell town who you are going to protect tonight because you don't want scum to know. So you can basically have "protected" anybody on the next day that isn't dead. Also, why would there be a gifter+doc role? I have just read hermey the elf's bio, and I have to say it could work flavourwise though...

Anyway, after reading all my arguments, you will find out that there is a slight chance that he is telling the truth, and that is only if chuck checked him night 1, and in spite of his character name, who is the hero of a christmas special and a dentist, they decided to kill kanin instead for unknwon reasons.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:32 am

I come back from a weekend of skiing, and I see that the discussion has only improved slightly.

Amazing to see betiko's defense of his scum buddy IB, that I must be scum. But I guess when he keeps posting and posting around the clock, people don't want to be dragged into a debate with the guy.

pancakemix wrote:Betiko has apologized for his outburst, so I don't think anything further chastising is necessary. I will say there's no need to discuss egos or nationalities or anything of the like, so please keep it clean from here on. It's just a game.

Well said, mod. When he resorts to insulting me even for which country I come from, you know he's just grasping for anything.

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.


He is doing anything he can to save his scum buddy IB. Just like IB stalled the lynch by saying that "Don't lynch me yet, I was given a day action" to give betiko more time to stall. (Then later changing that to "I thought you could use gifts during the day." Yet he specifically said he was given a day action, not gifts that could be used for actions both day and night.)

betiko wrote:PCM has just confirmed that you can change a player s faction there. I bet you we have 3 scums again so 5-1-3 and this could be lylo right now. Gustaf has turned scum.

This was betiko's next argument for saving his scum buddy Iron Butterfly. And there were people who fell for it? Note how he didn't say "Gustaf COULD have turned scum", but Gustaf HAS turned scum.
betiko wrote:And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.

betiko wrote: Remember this: we are at lylo most probably with a mafia that recruited gustaf.

"most probably"? Because I outed IB as scum through investigation, that makes me "most probably" scum?

Guys...isn't it clear betiko will just say anything, derail in any direction? And then claim it is certain.
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