++No Handlebars[6/11]Endgame:Without a Trace (Mafia Wins!)++

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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:06 am

jonty125 wrote:Looks like you guys are going to turn the joke case into a real case.

I am, Edward Jones Town Poet.

I have 1-shot ability to read my poetic masterpiece. This will cause a random number of people (could be 0, could be 10) to be forced to place their vote on a person of my choosing, and not be able to move it until tomorrow.

That would be so much fun to see in action. (Seems more efficient later in the game though.) Also reminds me of the No Handlebars song rishaed posted; you know, controlling the masses. Seems consistent with the theme.

pancakemix wrote:Tough to say on jonty. I suppose that's believable, but by its nature it's wholly unverifiable. I also doubt its usefulness.

As for Gustaf's case on Clever, it's a bit tenuous. I think I need more convincing than that to follow that logic.

Yes, but like I said, at least something resembling a case, which I don't see when it comes to jonty. To clarify my post above, S7C seems to be "fanning the flames" in both cases. When it comes to "Ya I usually hate no lynch day one it usually leaves us nowhere for day two" (on page 7), that is when there was talk about whether there would be a lynch. S7C's comment moves the discussion in the direction of having a lynch of just anyone, just to have a lynch on Day 1.

IF S7C would turn out to be Mafia, I would say he is a smooth criminal. Not leading the charge, but making sure there is a charge. Maybe I should have waited to bring this up, in order to see if it would happen again.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby jonty125 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:46 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:
IF S7C would turn out to be Mafia, I would say he is a smooth criminal. Not leading the charge, but making sure there is a charge. Maybe I should have waited to bring this up, in order to see if it would happen again.


Who knows, you might not live until tomorrow. It's good bringing up your suspicions.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby aage on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:48 am

I dislike Gustaf's protective stance towards Jonty before the claim, and his attempt to immediately divert attention to an equally unastonishing case.
Gustaf Wasa wrote:I agree there should preferably be a lynch on Day 1, but to lynch jonty "just because"? I don't agree with that. There should at least be something resembling a case. Take a look at S7C for instance:

--S7C was the second to vote for jonty. That was the first start of a wagon. This is horse shit. No way S7C has been planning to lynch Jonty from that vote onwards.

--S7C started the prodding case against me, kind of leading aage in the right direction. "Here he says it seemed he was seriously showing suspicion"
Some7hingCLEVER wrote:
Gustaf Wasa wrote:Hippo hey, no need for sarcasm. Seemed to me too you showed genuine suspicion for Some7hingCLEVER. Usually a joke vote is something like "vote XX for bad taste" etc, not "vote XX for suspect posts".


Here he says it seemed he was seriously showing suspicion


aage wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:
thehippo8 wrote:I'm here and I sense that clever is being too clever by half - aghast at the original post - bandwagoning - scared of spiders - head up his ... oops in his hands, ain't no excuses my schimeric friend - where are your handlebars now? Hmmm? vote Clever


How did anyone take this seriously? I guess the "scared of spiders" and "schimeric friend" are pretty damning. It's like Hippo was riding a bike with no handlebars or something...

Anyway, please explain what in this post was "serious"...

The true question is: did anyone?

As far as I know everyone can at this point claim it was all a ruse from the joke vote phase and nobody could dispute it. I never took Hippo's post seriously; it obviously wasn't... but it was weird and hence my playful response. We don't call them "joke votes" because they're just remarks though. I don't actually want to see him lynched today.

His response to me was,again weird, though. I don't know why he assumed I was being serious. Still don't want to lynch him though.
The quote after yours
wasn't responded to, which I took to mean "+1". If you think I have been led astray by S7C, please note Jonty wasn't mentioned in this quote at all.


--When that fizzled, S7C encouraged a lynch of jonty:

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:Ya I usually hate no lynch day one it usually leaves us nowhere for day two
Well, it is true. Even you would rather lynch S7C over these mostly baseless accusations than pass up the opportunity for a kill. Strange world, isn't it?

I could of course be wrong. But as a lynch candidate right now, Some7hingCLEVER looks like a better choice than jonty.

unvote

vote Some7hingCLEVER


I do wonder if you're choosing to attack S7C over me because you think you can gain more momentum over S7C... Maybe I'm just seeing things.

Jonty's ability doesn't sound extremely useful and I'd gladly lynch him, since vote control sounds extremely scummy.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Some7hingCLEVER on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:11 pm

Woah...gone for a few days my bad...reading up and will post
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Some7hingCLEVER on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:34 pm

unvote jonty

my responses are in blue

Gustaf Wasa wrote:I agree there should preferably be a lynch on Day 1, but to lynch jonty "just because"? I don't agree with that. There should at least be something resembling a case. Take a look at S7C for instance:

--S7C was the second to vote for jonty. That was the first start of a wagon.
ya. this is a bad reason. i voted second! there is no way i could realize he would get this close because of that!!
--S7C started the prodding case against me, kind of leading aage in the right direction. "Here he says it seemed he was seriously showing suspicion" OMGUS? i pointed something out that i thought was suspicious and if this is a crime everyone would be guitly.

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:
Gustaf Wasa wrote:Hippo hey, no need for sarcasm. Seemed to me too you showed genuine suspicion for Some7hingCLEVER. Usually a joke vote is something like "vote XX for bad taste" etc, not "vote XX for suspect posts".


Here he says it seemed he was seriously showing suspicion


aage wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:
thehippo8 wrote:I'm here and I sense that clever is being too clever by half - aghast at the original post - bandwagoning - scared of spiders - head up his ... oops in his hands, ain't no excuses my schimeric friend - where are your handlebars now? Hmmm? vote Clever


How did anyone take this seriously? I guess the "scared of spiders" and "schimeric friend" are pretty damning. It's like Hippo was riding a bike with no handlebars or something...

Anyway, please explain what in this post was "serious"...

The true question is: did anyone?

As far as I know everyone can at this point claim it was all a ruse from the joke vote phase and nobody could dispute it. I never took Hippo's post seriously; it obviously wasn't... but it was weird and hence my playful response. We don't call them "joke votes" because they're just remarks though. I don't actually want to see him lynched today.

His response to me was,again weird, though. I don't know why he assumed I was being serious. Still don't want to lynch him though.


--When that fizzled, S7C encouraged a lynch of jonty: i did not say i was gonna try and lynch jonty i said i dont like no lynches. was that unclear?

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:Ya I usually hate no lynch day one it usually leaves us nowhere for day two


I could of course be wrong. But as a lynch candidate right now, Some7hingCLEVER looks like a better choice than jonty.

unvote

vote Some7hingCLEVER


so basically your voting me cause i voted for someone second and if thats the case why dont we vote for the guy who voted first? you're also voting for me because i brought something up on you which is true i did but it is not scummy at all and because of this i think you are fishing for things and making this a bigger deal than it is. and your third reason was that i like to lynch someone rather than a no lynch. if you misunderstood what i said about the no lynch then i understand but otherwise im confused.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Nendreel on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:46 pm

And this is why I hate D1.

Still, we got a claim from jonty. Not sure if I quite believe it yet, but I can't really doubt it at this point either. Seems like both an overpowered and weak ability at the same time.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby rishaed on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:21 pm

Vote Count:
S7C (1) - Gustaf Wasa
Jonty125 (3) - aage, Nebuchadnezer, NG1
Gustaf Wasa (1) - PCM

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is on Jan 27th. As of Now a No Lynch would be enforced.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Little Witt on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:37 pm

Well, we are running out of options and idk but Clever might have just been looking for a lynch of any kind, but he certainly wanted a lynch. And so do I, otherwise I feel like this day might not yet as much info as it could if we vote NL
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby thehippo8 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:10 pm

Little Witt wrote:Well, we are running out of options and idk but Clever might have just been looking for a lynch of any kind, but he certainly wanted a lynch. And so do I, otherwise I feel like this day might not yet as much info as it could if we vote NL

Are you suggesting that we oblige him in his wish? Surely he's not a jester!
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Little Witt on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:14 pm

thehippo8 wrote:
Little Witt wrote:Well, we are running out of options and idk but Clever might have just been looking for a lynch of any kind, but he certainly wanted a lynch. And so do I, otherwise I feel like this day might not yet as much info as it could if we vote NL

Are you suggesting that we oblige him in his wish? Surely he's not a jester!

I just want a lynch or if we pressure clever enough we can find out if he was scummy so we have more to go off of tomorrow.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:56 pm

jonty125 wrote:Looks like you guys are going to turn the joke case into a real case.

I am, Edward Jones Town Poet.

I have 1-shot ability to read my poetic masterpiece. This will cause a random number of people (could be 0, could be 10) to be forced to place their vote on a person of my choosing, and not be able to move it until tomorrow.


Guh...I'm in the camp of "meh, pretty useless role". It's basically a 1-shot daykill, which isn't bad, but could be really bad if it were a mafia role...or if Jonty got mad at someone and just wanted him gone. I tend to think he wouldn't do that, and given that he complied with the claim, I will unvote.

I'm not sure Some7hingCLEVER has been acting scummy, but if we want to get another claim out there, I could live with it...let me reread his posts...
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby new guy1 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:25 pm

Sorry for the inactiveness, been busy. I will be trying to post more in the coming day or so.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Some7hingCLEVER on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:29 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:Yes, but like I said, at least something resembling a case, which I don't see when it comes to jonty. To clarify my post above, S7C seems to be "fanning the flames" in both cases. When it comes to "Ya I usually hate no lynch day one it usually leaves us nowhere for day two" (on page 7), that is when there was talk about whether there would be a lynch. S7C's comment moves the discussion in the direction of having a lynch of just anyone, just to have a lynch on Day 1.

IF S7C would turn out to be Mafia, I would say he is a smooth criminal. Not leading the charge, but making sure there is a charge. Maybe I should have waited to bring this up, in order to see if it would happen again.


How am I fanning the cases? I voted on jonty on...well basically nothing! And when I realized he got close I backed off

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:This is my post to the opening scene blah blah blah man with hood blah blah blah maybe there is a bouncer in a club or bar not sure blah blah blah

Fast posted

Ohhhhh I like small details that make people look scummy

vote jonty


I voted for Jonty because him and aage made some silly mistake that me and nedreal picked on. I didn't say it was actually scummy(I do say it is but it was a joke . I figure that was obvious as it was on the 4th page) I didn't expect a bandwagon in him.

And yes I'll be honest I would rather lynch someone than a no lynch. Look at what a no lynch get us

No lynch:
no one dies so we don't see a role and we don't get information
We move straight to the night and a town is killed
We get night actions (which won't be revealed on day 2)
And we end up on day 2 only knowing a town is killed

Lynch
Yes we lose someone but it could be town or mafia so we get a claim and some info on that including a scene
Go to the night and the doctor has some idea of who may be mafia depending on the lynch result
Night actions again
And we lose a town at night which is inevitable
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby jonty125 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:58 am

Deadline is 48 hours, we have 1 claim, a fairly underpowered role, do we want to risk exposing something powerful? One claim will be OK in a 11 player game, for D1.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby aage on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:38 pm

I still think we should lynch Jonty. No-lynching also does not work in our advantage at all numberwise.

Scum needs to equal or outnumber town to win, which means the fastest win for them is an even number.
This means that if there are eg. 2 scum and 5 town alive, a no-lynch means 2-4 which means one mislynch is lethal.
What we'd be doing by no-lynching is literally passing up an opportunity to make a lynch. I think that, objectively speaking, we need to give Town as many lynches as possible, and that means we have to keep an uneven amount of players.

This of course assumes there is a) barely investigative leads, b) no doc save and c) no second night kill (SK, vig). In case of the first two, great (although one doc save doesn't mean anything unless he claims), in case of the latter, sucks but that only means we have to lynch even more (and our objective chances of hitting non-town at this point are even higher).


Worth thinking about.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby rishaed on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:23 pm

Vote Count:
S7C (1) - Gustaf Wasa
Jonty125 (2) - aage, NG1
Gustaf Wasa (1) - PCM

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is on Jan 27th. As of Now a No Lynch would be enforced.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:37 pm

Well, I'm at a loss here. Discussion has dropped to minimal. I'm not so sure lynching just to lynch is a good idea. I could see Jonty's role being really bad for town...and very tough to be useful for town. Quite honestly, I don't follow the Some7hingCLEVER line of thought from Gustaf, but maybe we could get a claim from him? Like I said...not sure where to go here. I'm open to discussion.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby new guy1 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:07 pm

Well to be honest, I dont know if jonty's role is scum or not, but lets say it is town. Do you trust him with a large amount of votes, possibly holding the lynch in your hands? I can honestly say if he were to use it on a future day when he had more time to detect scum and make reasonable cases (based on evidence, not guesses) then I would be able to trust him as I feel like hes pretty good at that kind of stuff. Thats my opinion. If everyone can agree on that, then we just need to decide if we think hes scum or not. After that, its pretty obvious the course of action for if we think he is scum, but if we think he is town and enough of us trust him then I would say let him live. Of course that takes alot of time, so we may just want to consider the scum town aspect for today and move on to trust with votes tomorrow if we decide not to lynch him. As for S7C, I do not see anything of merit there and Gustaf may be jumping the gun on him, but honestly he did make an okay case for Day 1, so I would not be 100% for a lynch on him.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby thehippo8 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:28 am

@ newguy ... One of the things you can build on is the nature of the response ... some of which looks dodgy ... not just the words but the timing ... but you are right ... it's day one ... and what else can we expect? Lots here to look back on!! Some pushing just a little too hard and a few holding back just a little too much! Frankly, it's been a better day one than a lot I have seen! Time has run out and I think we can sleep well!
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Some7hingCLEVER on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:49 pm

So we have a claim and a a "case" and hardly 24 hours left...I don't know what we can do from here we really have no time...I hate no lynches ..any ideas anyone
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby new guy1 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:46 pm

thehippo8 wrote:@ newguy ... One of the things you can build on is the nature of the response ... some of which looks dodgy ... not just the words but the timing ... but you are right ... it's day one ... and what else can we expect? Lots here to look back on!! Some pushing just a little too hard and a few holding back just a little too much! Frankly, it's been a better day one than a lot I have seen! Time has run out and I think we can sleep well!


The reason why part of my response seemed dodgy is because there isnt much I can take sides on besides if jonty is town or not, which for picking's sake is that I believe he's town because of his "whatever" response up until there were alot of votes on him. I feel that his episode of "I wont give my role" was scummy, but I dont feel that he is scum. Also, this is just to make sure your post does not snowball to a case, not because I am concerned as I could have just as easily not posted any response.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby rishaed on Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:06 pm

Mod Note:
Vote count is the same as yesterday. D1 ends at 9PM tomorrow.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:43 am

aage wrote:wasn't responded to, which I took to mean "+1". If you think I have been led astray by S7C, please note Jonty wasn't mentioned in this quote at all. [/color]

That wasn't my point either. But simply that he moved the discussion in that direction, that there should be a lynch. You must know that was what I meant.

I do wonder if you're choosing to attack S7C over me because you think you can gain more momentum over S7C... Maybe I'm just seeing things.

Why should I suspect you instead, do you mean? Also a bit odd. I already explained why I said S7C. Twice I noted that, yes, not a strong case. But at least something, whereas the bandwagon on jonty was based on "We got nothing on him, but let's just pick someone".
Jonty's ability doesn't sound extremely useful and I'd gladly lynch him, since vote control sounds extremely scummy.

I disagree that it sounds scummy. It seems consistent with the game theme. Rishaed said the game was based on a part in the song, which must be the part where it picks up and turns into a Big Brother theme. So spying on, and controlling, other players are what I expect most roles to be about.
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby aage on Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:51 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:
aage wrote:wasn't responded to, which I took to mean "+1". If you think I have been led astray by S7C, please note Jonty wasn't mentioned in this quote at all. [/color]

That wasn't my point either. But simply that he moved the discussion in that direction, that there should be a lynch. You must know that was what I meant.

I do wonder if you're choosing to attack S7C over me because you think you can gain more momentum over S7C... Maybe I'm just seeing things.

Why should I suspect you instead, do you mean? Also a bit odd. I already explained why I said S7C. Twice I noted that, yes, not a strong case. But at least something, whereas the bandwagon on jonty was based on "We got nothing on him, but let's just pick someone".
Jonty's ability doesn't sound extremely useful and I'd gladly lynch him, since vote control sounds extremely scummy.

I disagree that it sounds scummy. It seems consistent with the game theme. Rishaed said the game was based on a part in the song, which must be the part where it picks up and turns into a Big Brother theme. So spying on, and controlling, other players are what I expect most roles to be about.

So the "control" roles are not the bad guys? :P
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Re: ++No Handlebars [11/11] Day 1:A Chaotic beginning++

Postby Nendreel on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:00 am

aage wrote:
Gustaf Wasa wrote:
I disagree that it sounds scummy. It seems consistent with the game theme. Rishaed said the game was based on a part in the song, which must be the part where it picks up and turns into a Big Brother theme. So spying on, and controlling, other players are what I expect most roles to be about.

So the "control" roles are not the bad guys? :P


The part of the music video that came to mind concerning jonty's role was the Peace Guy trying to rouse the crowd... and having a hobo join him. Maybe jonty will be more successful with his attempt. :lol:
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