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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby thechuck51 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:09 pm

Kanin Usagi wrote:
Kanin Usagi wrote: I would like Jonty to tell us whether or not Battle of the Bulge should have been on the list and he forgot to put it on there. If it was not supposed to be on the list, then I would like a lynch of Doom for lying (as he shouldn't have that role then.)

I was in favor of lynching Doom for his mistake, and pretty vocal about it too.

This was AFTER Doom had screwed up so I don't think it earns you any town cred.

Besides, back in day 1 you were protecting Doom:
show

This post makes it seem like you are A) happy that the scene wouldn't show a block and B) that you would like a PR to out itself:
show

Was this you trying to bus yourself and Doom after his fate was sealed? Theres only one way you could be 100% sure of somebody;s alignment:
show

vote kanin
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:56 pm

Well, crap...if Kanin didn't just jump up the scum-meter...

Why would you post this? It's so confusing...are you trying to protect Pancakemix? Is he a mafia roleblocker, so Kanin wants to protect him? Well done, Kanin...you just confused the hell out of us!

Well, we now have two good cases here. I'm apt to stay on pancakemix, but either way, these two have to go...
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby pancakemix on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:24 pm

As far as laying low goes, I've made a post in the vacation thread, and this has been an ongoing situation since at least mid-January. You can regard my other games as evidence as well. I will not further defend my absence here.

On my D1 vote: If you read my first post, it kind of makes no sense NOT to vote him based on my argument, hm? We call that hypocritical where I come from. Being so absent-minded as I was, I put myself in a bit of a Catch-22. It was either I voted him, put him at -2 and the worst that could happen was info, or I could not vote him and get called for hypocrisy later (supporting but not having enough gumption to put a vote down). I chose the one that I thought was most beneficial to town.

On yoshi: I thought he was town up until he was exposed, tbh. It's not unusual for him to play an odd gambit as a VT (see H.P. Lovecraft), so I thought I knew what he was doing.

As for the hank post, I mostly based that on him not dying and stuff. Y'know, being alive more often than not suggests mafia didn't go there.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby jonty125 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:08 am

Vote Count
pancakemix (2) - Nebuchadnezar; spieser;
Kanin Usagi (2) - rishaed; thechuck51

Deadline is Firday 22 February @ 1600 GMT. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. If the vote count were to remain the same until deadline a 24 hour run-off period will be enforced.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby gregwolf121 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:35 pm

okay we got two suspects here we need to decide who to press first, since it seems like kanin is trying to draw suspicion to himself from pancake, im going to vote pancakemix
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby pancakemix on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:24 pm

I'll claim if asked, but that's terribly shoddy reasoning, greg.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby spiesr on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:23 pm

pancakemix wrote:As far as laying low goes, I've made a post in the vacation thread, and this has been an ongoing situation since at least mid-January. You can regard my other games as evidence as well. I will not further defend my absence here.
My concern about you laying low isn't primarily directed at you post count. The problem is that, for example, when you posted in the later stage of Day 1 you avoiding making any mention of where you stand on anything and just let the Day coast by.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby pancakemix on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:38 am

spiesr wrote:
pancakemix wrote:As far as laying low goes, I've made a post in the vacation thread, and this has been an ongoing situation since at least mid-January. You can regard my other games as evidence as well. I will not further defend my absence here.
My concern about you laying low isn't primarily directed at you post count. The problem is that, for example, when you posted in the later stage of Day 1 you avoiding making any mention of where you stand on anything and just let the Day coast by.


1. You've presupposed that I've avoided anything, which I find odd.

2. You've presupposed that I was lax in my contributions, when I've already stated that that isn't true. I dislike that. Just because I'm on here doesn't mean I have time to post a wall of text, let alone post anything at all.

3. You do me a disservice by giving a lack of real context. And since you won't, I will. The quote. So what is going on here? I'm calling Hank out for apparent inattentiveness. If he had just read the page instead of searching for his name in red, he'd have known that vote on him had come and passed. It's also says that I did read the page, because why else would I say anything If I hadn't?

As to why the post doesn't say more, A. See point 2 and B. What really would you want me to say? Redundancies tend to be against my policy, and all who were paying attention were resigned to a NL at that point. If I HAD voted NL, you'd still accuse me of coasting, just for trying to look like I'm a helper.

Have I played terribly this game? Yes. Does that mean I'm scum? No. But I have the feeling you've already hung me in your head.
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PRe: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:51 pm

Pancake has done nothing to dissuade me from voting for him. Funny how he can suddenly post quite a bit now that the pressure is on...
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby rishaed on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:22 pm

Kanin Usagi wrote:If it helps make me seem less scummy to people, I will say that Nebuchadnezzar did not visit anyone last night. Also, just because Doom did not specifically mention myself does not in itself mean I am scum. He just didn't see me as a good target to focus attention on.

In fact:

Kanin Usagi wrote: I would like Jonty to tell us whether or not Battle of the Bulge should have been on the list and he forgot to put it on there. If it was not supposed to be on the list, then I would like a lynch of Doom for lying (as he shouldn't have that role then.)

I was in favor of lynching Doom for his mistake, and pretty vocal about it too.

I want more info from Kanin on this part of his statement. Either A. he's softclaiming tracker (quite possible, but i don't think i'd trust him with the amount of VT's that have shown up so far) B. He's scum protecting someone. C. He slipped up.
Now I would be more than thankful if we could band together, and get a claim from someone who's already softclaimed.
In other news though, Neb's recent posts are really scummy. ;)
You know the parts about digging for information (After I thought about it, it doesn't help by saying who i protected when im a Bodyguard because without a doc if I protect the person getting NK'd I'll die >.>), saying that PCM and Kanin have to go, and his recent posts. If anyone would reread what he wrote, and put their thoughts down on it it'd be greatly appreciated.
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Re: PRe: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby pancakemix on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:19 pm

Nebuchadnezer wrote:Pancake has done nothing to dissuade me from voting for him. Funny how he can suddenly post quite a bit now that the pressure is on...


I do have a vested interest in not getting lynched, thank you kindly, and you probably would too if you knew what I was. Either way, I do read every day but that doesn't mean post. It's not my way, it never has been. I've already acknowledged my play has been sub-par, but I don't know what more you want. Again, you've hung me in your mind, and there's no persuading you otherwise.

You didn't say much about me before, but now that I look at, your vote's based pretty much on shoddy interpretation:

Reading back on Doomyoshi's posts, I come to the following conclusion...Kanin Usagi and Pancakemix are most likely mafia. Why? Doom never once mentions either of them in his posts. I think he mentions everyone else, except for those two.

Because if Doom mentions you it puts a voodoo curse on you. You don't want to get voodoo cursed!

I think his posts seem off.

This means exactly nothing

Also, he forced Rishaed's claim on D1 for crap reasons.

And stated as much. I'm more willing to do risky things on Day 1 to promote discussion

Then when Edoc tore him up, he quickly backed off.

False. I defended my position to edoc. I backed off because he claimed. Good of you to totally misconstrue it though.

Also, his statement that he would have hammered Doom seems like he's just trying to fit in.

So I want to be one of the cool kids? You're really reaching here...


So voodoo, edoc being a scary monster, and peer pressure are why I'm facing the gallows right now. Good stuff.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby thechuck51 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:08 pm

Nebuchadnezer wrote:Well, crap...if Kanin didn't just jump up the scum-meter...

Why would you post this? It's so confusing...are you trying to protect Pancakemix? Is he a mafia roleblocker, so Kanin wants to protect him? Well done, Kanin...you just confused the hell out of us!

Well, we now have two good cases here. I'm apt to stay on pancakemix, but either way, these two have to go...

I'm not trying to protect pancake, per say, but I just didnt find him scummy as I re-read his posts.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby rishaed on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:06 am

And the more he says the less scummy I find him >.>. Now who do we want to claim today???
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby spiesr on Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:06 pm

thechuck51 wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Well, crap...if Kanin didn't just jump up the scum-meter...

Why would you post this? It's so confusing...are you trying to protect Pancakemix? Is he a mafia roleblocker, so Kanin wants to protect him? Well done, Kanin...you just confused the hell out of us!

Well, we now have two good cases here. I'm apt to stay on pancakemix, but either way, these two have to go...
I'm not trying to protect pancake, per say, but I just didnt find him scummy as I re-read his posts.
Why are you responding to a post directed at Kanin?
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby rishaed on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:31 pm

Because he voted PCM >.>
aww wth, unvote vote Neb
Between him and Kanin, I'm not sure which one hit the scummy radar more today, but none of you are helping me with Kanin, and I'm inclined to believe that PCM is town. I have found Neb to be extremely scummy today, let me go and get some quotes. . .
Nebuchadnezer wrote:
rishaed wrote:GG IB I'll leave my comments for afterwards.
Any of our cases from D1 are dried up. We need to look at yesterday to see what sticks out. Imma going to do a readthrough to see what sticks out.


Well, let's start with known facts...who did you protect last night?

This after reading it a second time sticks out like a sore thumb, I'm a bodyguard for pities sake! Whoever I protected is irrelevant without a doc in game. D2 it was relevant b/c of roleblock/doc/protection save when hank Doc'd me. Now, not so much, because you know if i guessed right i'd be dead right now.
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Vote pancakemix I think his posts seem off. Also, he forced Rishaed's claim on D1 for crap reasons. Then when Edoc tore him up, he quickly backed off. Also, his statement that he would have hammered Doom seems like he's just trying to fit in. I'm all for Pancake on this one.

I admit that he forced my hand on crap reasons, however his statement of being a hypocrite if he didn't makes sense, and he backed off after I claimed, with a jab a edoc while he was at it.
spiesr wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Well, crap...there is the randomness of it all...so do we really have a claimed doc and a body guard on day one? Were we that lucky that we happen to pressure two protective roles? I'm willing to test one of the claims. Given that Hank seemed to be the scummier of the two, I'm willing to go with him. If people really want to vote no lynch, let me know, and I'll take my vote off.[/b]

If the day were a bit longer we could have a better discussion...but...alas, we picked our noses for last few weeks putting off any decisions until deadline time. Fine. On the off chance Hank could be a doc...[color=#FF0000]unvote
Wait, your previous post sounded very certain on the matter.
Nebuchadnezer wrote: vote Hank, he's lying.
What exactly happened that you were confident enough to declare that he was lying and now you aren't sure? You can't have made that earlier post based solely on there being a claimed bodyguard and doctor, can you? Is there something else?

Here he's being wishy-washy, in a lets go with the crowd voting mentality. And something else caught my eye here, lucky? outing two protective roles right off the bat isn't fortunate, at most 1 is ok because the scum don't know if he'll be targeted by another protective,watcher/busdriver.
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Ya, I kinda painted a big target on myself, didn't I? I guess our doc protected me then? I know there's a myriad of other options, but I'll stick with the simplest one for now.

The real question is...did anyone get any information last night? Given that we have at least 2 protective roles, do we want them to come out with any information?

I could be miscontruing here, but why would this be the simplest option? Its a nice way to insert town cred without risk, and the people with the biggest targets on their backs would have been me and Hank.
IB had called him out for "flipping a coin" on whether or not to vote doom or someone else, and then IB gets NK'd. (My fault probably for painting a bullseye on his back). And his response makes him look like a PRish role, so its logical that scum would go after him.
The short story is that Nebs recent posts have been scummy for me :) this is just my case behind it :)
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:04 pm

Seriously?

rishaed wrote:Because he voted PCM >.>
aww wth, unvote vote Neb
Between him and Kanin, I'm not sure which one hit the scummy radar more today, but none of you are helping me with Kanin, and I'm inclined to believe that PCM is town. I have found Neb to be extremely scummy today, let me go and get some quotes. . .
Nebuchadnezer wrote:
rishaed wrote:GG IB I'll leave my comments for afterwards.
Any of our cases from D1 are dried up. We need to look at yesterday to see what sticks out. Imma going to do a readthrough to see what sticks out.


Well, let's start with known facts...who did you protect last night?

This after reading it a second time sticks out like a sore thumb, I'm a bodyguard for pities sake! Whoever I protected is irrelevant without a doc in game. D2 it was relevant b/c of roleblock/doc/protection save when hank Doc'd me. Now, not so much, because you know if i guessed right i'd be dead right now.


Why does it matter? Because someone might have tracked you...and if you don't give the right answer...Boom! You're hung. Why wouldn't you give the information for pities sake?

rishaed wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Vote pancakemix I think his posts seem off. Also, he forced Rishaed's claim on D1 for crap reasons. Then when Edoc tore him up, he quickly backed off. Also, his statement that he would have hammered Doom seems like he's just trying to fit in. I'm all for Pancake on this one.

I admit that he forced my hand on crap reasons, however his statement of being a hypocrite if he didn't makes sense, and he backed off after I claimed, with a jab a edoc while he was at it.
spiesr wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Well, crap...there is the randomness of it all...so do we really have a claimed doc and a body guard on day one? Were we that lucky that we happen to pressure two protective roles? I'm willing to test one of the claims. Given that Hank seemed to be the scummier of the two, I'm willing to go with him. If people really want to vote no lynch, let me know, and I'll take my vote off.[/b]

If the day were a bit longer we could have a better discussion...but...alas, we picked our noses for last few weeks putting off any decisions until deadline time. Fine. On the off chance Hank could be a doc...[color=#FF0000]unvote
Wait, your previous post sounded very certain on the matter.
Nebuchadnezer wrote: vote Hank, he's lying.
What exactly happened that you were confident enough to declare that he was lying and now you aren't sure? You can't have made that earlier post based solely on there being a claimed bodyguard and doctor, can you? Is there something else?

Here he's being wishy-washy, in a lets go with the crowd voting mentality. And something else caught my eye here, lucky? outing two protective roles right off the bat isn't fortunate, at most 1 is ok because the scum don't know if he'll be targeted by another protective,watcher/busdriver.


You're right. Lucky was not the correct word...more like unlucky.

rishaed wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Ya, I kinda painted a big target on myself, didn't I? I guess our doc protected me then? I know there's a myriad of other options, but I'll stick with the simplest one for now.

The real question is...did anyone get any information last night? Given that we have at least 2 protective roles, do we want them to come out with any information?

I could be miscontruing here, but why would this be the simplest option? Its a nice way to insert town cred without risk, and the people with the biggest targets on their backs would have been me and Hank.
IB had called him out for "flipping a coin" on whether or not to vote doom or someone else, and then IB gets NK'd. (My fault probably for painting a bullseye on his back). And his response makes him look like a PRish role, so its logical that scum would go after him.
The short story is that Nebs recent posts have been scummy for me :) this is just my case behind it :)


Seriously...I get Doom hung (well, he did do it himself, actually) and somehow you're trying to blame Iron's death on me? I think you're taking my posts out of context. Go back and read them in the context I wrote them. It will make more sense.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby rishaed on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:18 pm

No I'm not trying to blame IB's death on you. Look at the parentheses for pities sake. I give the information out willingly, but it lets Mafia know who I might try to protect on future nights. . . which IMHO can only be bad. I don't think we have a RB'er b/c he would have come out with his information and boom! we have a lynch. Because who would believe that we got lucky enough that the doc protected me on the night that I either protected the NK/ or was going to get NK'd myself? It'd be Occams Razor right, go with the simplest explanation. And I know you voted doom b4 he made his mistake, but depending on what was going on and the fact that he was our best lead, It doesn't make you town/scum, and after he made his mistake bussing him would be the logical thing to do right?
You still haven't explained why you've been so willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time.
Plus in terms of wanting answers can we get a prod on Kanin?
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:57 pm

rishaed wrote:No I'm not trying to blame IB's death on you. Look at the parentheses for pities sake. I give the information out willingly, but it lets Mafia know who I might try to protect on future nights. . . which IMHO can only be bad. I don't think we have a RB'er b/c he would have come out with his information and boom! we have a lynch. Because who would believe that we got lucky enough that the doc protected me on the night that I either protected the NK/ or was going to get NK'd myself? It'd be Occams Razor right, go with the simplest explanation. And I know you voted doom b4 he made his mistake, but depending on what was going on and the fact that he was our best lead, It doesn't make you town/scum, and after he made his mistake bussing him would be the logical thing to do right?
You still haven't explained why you've been so willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time.
Plus in terms of wanting answers can we get a prod on Kanin?


First off...who you protect one night has no bearing on who you protect the next night. And even if it does, your job as bodyguard is to die protecting someone. That IS the whole point of your role! Poor WIFOM arguement, rishaed.

Secondly, about the roleblocker...is it not possible to have a mafia roleblocker? I'm pretty sure he's not coming out with his night actions.

Thirdly, I'm not sure I understand the term "bussing" in your sentence. Would you consider it "bussing" when I was voting him early? I guess I don't get your logic here. Wouldn't your logic apply to everyone who voted Doom then? Why would it make me any more suspicious that anyone else on the vote? Please explain.

Finally, who did I bandwagon on "all of the time"?

1. I went against the grain on voting for the doctor after he claimed. I did pull off of him on the chance that he was in fact a doctor...if that's bandwagoning...you have an odd definition.
2. I was on Doom early...not a bandwagoner.
3. I just made the first case on pancakemix today...how is that a bandwagon?

So, please don't use the generalization that I am "willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time", when that's not even close to the truth.

Shoddy, shoddy arguements...

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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby spiesr on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:58 pm

Nebuchadnezer wrote:First off...who you protect one night has no bearing on who you protect the next night. And even if it does, your job as bodyguard is to die protecting someone. That IS the whole point of your role! Poor WIFOM arguement, rishaed.
It's ultimately a WIFOM situation, but it stands to reason that, unless something changes during a Day, rishaed would be more likely to protect the person he did last night again than he would any other individual. If the mafia think they know who rishaed will be protecting it seems like that would lead to target somebody else to increase their chances of killing an important role. So, it's not that rishaed is afraid the scum will try to kill him if they can guess where he is going, but that they won't.
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Secondly, about the roleblocker...is it not possible to have a mafia roleblocker? I'm pretty sure he's not coming out with his night actions.
I believe what rishaed was saying is that he thinks that there isn't a Town Roleblocker as if there was said person could have announced who they blocked back on Day 2 under the assumption that they had stopped the kill. Since nobody said anything about he concludes that the kill was prevented by the Doctor saving him. I am not sure what point he is trying to make with this tough.
Nebuchadnezer wrote:Thirdly, I'm not sure I understand the term "bussing" in your sentence. Would you consider it "bussing" when I was voting him early? I guess I don't get your logic here. Wouldn't your logic apply to everyone who voted Doom then? Why would it make me any more suspicious that anyone else on the vote? Please explain.
Essentially the point here is that your actions with respect to DoomYoshi don't necessarily make you any less likely to be scum as well. They don't really make you more likely, just not less.
Nebuchadnezer wrote:2. I was on Doom early...not a bandwagoner.
You were the third vote on DoomYoshi on Day 2. The second vote was a bandwagon vote, so I don't see why the third couldn't be considered one as well. It's like you were the one to revive that case or anything. At that point in time things were moving in that direction and nowhere else, to the extent that DoomYoshi ended up claiming before a fourth vote was cast.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby Nebuchadnezer on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:07 pm

Fair enough. Points taken.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby rishaed on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:35 pm

I'm not going to requote what speisr so candidly explained for me. (He was correct on all points though). What I was trying to say by bussing was that sometimes you put a vote on a scum buddy, only to take it off when they make a convincing fakeclaim, it usually gives a bit of town cred, so on and so forth. However Doom botched his claim, so basically everyone except speisr, IMO doesn't get the cred for "finding" scum, because anyone who could possibly be scum, ( you for ex.), would look like scum if they took their vote off after it came out that he botched it.
A suggestion though. I want more information from Kanin, for a particular reason, he's already softclaimed, so I want a hardclaim from him. As long as the mod would be so nice to prod him for us, I'm sure we can get a claim out of him today. So, neither is anyone going for the nitpicking I was doing, though you did generously react ;) Though for the above reasons I did feel it was a little bit scummy.
I'm going back to Kanin. unvote vote Kanin
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby gregwolf121 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:54 pm

unvote
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby spiesr on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:13 pm

gregwolf121 wrote:unvote
Why don't you give your reasoning for this action so that it may contribute to the furthering of discussion?
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby gregwolf121 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:27 pm

my reasoning is that pancake has adequately defended himself against the case which was presented against him. so i feel that my vote on him is now unwarranted.
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Re: Best (Randomness) Of 2012 (8/12) Day Three

Postby edocsil on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:44 pm

Nebuchadnezer wrote:Well, let's start with known facts...who did you protect last night?

.....

Why does it matter? Because someone might have tracked you...and if you don't give the right answer...Boom! You're hung. Why wouldn't you give the information for pities sake?


Spiesr has already explained why this is bad, so I won't bash you for it any further, but its fair to say igmeoy. As someone who is having a very hard time staying active I can't in good faith hound PCM for the same things I'm doing.

I will vote Kanin ambiguous soft claims to power when they are unwarranted are scummy, I would like him to claim so the docs can know if he is worth protecting, or if he is trying to draw fire from the scum with a softclaim. At this point I don't think anyone can tell the truth and the night is going to get mucked up because of it.
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