Conquer Club

Accused:

1)jobiwan
2)blitzaholic



The accused are suspected of:

point dumping
account sitting abuse
hijacking of account( after blitzs statement)



Game number(s):
check his game page.
http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=find&submit=Search&p1=Jobiwan&so=D



Comments:
ok this looks really suspicious it looks like jobiwan has been missing turns since 10 march 2011.
So possible point dumping case. as jobiwan has been signing up to tourney games and quad games with blitzaholic.


now blitaholic comes into this because of the following game below.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8693814

it looks like jobiwan might of given up on the site. if this is so then blitzaholic has been signing him up to tourney games (deadbeating them) and quad games (playing his shots)
this is a clear cut case of sitting abuse if it is happening. because jobiwan has dropped to 500 points from over 1800 and blitz uses these types of players for his quad games to save him points.

show: blitzs statement

i do have screen shots of the games waiting and will post later. .

Well, I don't think you can blame Blitz for jobiwan deadbeating games (that being a possible case of point dumping). And I have a hard time believing that jobiwan didn't join the games himself.

Nothing personal mate, it's just inconcievable that Blitz would run a scheme like that: (1) he's anything but a cheater and (2) even if he would have a dark side, there are plenty of players who would be happy to play quads with him, so he wouldn't have to do something like that in the first place even if he, for some idiosyncratic reasons, would be inclined to.

Something stinks... Jobi has been missing lots of turns.. blitz is taking some and looks like he is still signing him up for games. Blitz looks like he is at fault here.. This is gonna be ugly..

I needed a suv for a tournry and had a play in game with me vs Jobiwan. He signed up, missed his 1st turn, took his 2nd, missed the next 2, took one, then missed 3. Very frustrating.

I contacted him numerous times asking him what was up, wrong, if he wanted to real time the game. Eventuall he told me he had a death in the family via wall(I erased it after I Foed him).

I was just ticked that he would join then deadbeat. Plus he would join others after his "death in the family".

I don't know why someone would join up games for someone else only to deadbeat them, but Just wanted to let you know my experience with him.

The real case is not about him joining those games then deadbeating... but obviously blitz has played turns for him so why not all? And to top that off, When was the last known time jobi was on his account and joined his own games? That is the real case here.

alstergren wrote:Well, I don't think you can blame Blitz for jobiwan deadbeating games (that being a possible case of point dumping). And I have a hard time believing that jobiwan didn't join the games himself.

Nothing personal mate, it's just inconcievable that Blitz would run a scheme like that: (1) he's anything but a cheater and (2) even if he would have a dark side, there are plenty of players who would be happy to play quads with him, so he wouldn't have to do something like that in the first place even if he, for some idiosyncratic reasons, would be inclined to.

thx all-star


Bruce, I have been conqueror for almost a year now, and several other times in the past, so, I don't need to cheat, in fact it goes against my own values as I have reported many cheats to the mods in private pm's over the years. I have nothing to hide, so I will be right up front with you on this regard.

Here is an example:
Game 8652605

2011-03-25 22:28:16 - leolou2 [team]: Oh where oh where are you at Jobi
2011-03-25 22:29:21 - leolou2 [team]: You should let Blitz have your PW thur a PM
2011-03-26 15:55:29 - Blitzaholic [team]: did jobi miss another turn? geeez
2011-03-26 16:01:36 - Blitzaholic [team]: all on Black Sheep Squadron (landing point) and NO attacks
2011-03-28 10:00:07 - Jobiwan: blitz for jobi



Thx to jakewilliams bringing this to my attention that jobiwan and myself are being accused of cheating. Let me assure you that is not that case. I used to team with jobi sometimes back in the day, he was always a good teammate, so I pm'd him asking him a few weeks ago for some games if he'd like, he said he could not right now, he was in the UK for business or something, I said ok, pm me when you return.

He finally did pm me when he returned to the states and said let's rock out, but may need some help and left me his pw. I did create some games, he did join some and I did join some for him, the only ones I joined for him were some of my inivtes when I noticed the next day he had like 10 hours to join in a 24 hour span, well, when you have to go to work all day, you dont want to come back and take a chance some random dude joined your games, I had that happen in the past plenty of times and it sucks, so yes, I did join some games for him with his permission. This is not against the cc rules and it is not cheating. The public games generally take about 10 to 14 days to fill.

Kraphtone did this to me months back, he joined his clanmates in teams against me without their permission and the mods let it go. I never joined any of his tourney games showing he is active some days and does take his turns. Then I noticed he had been missing turns in games where I teamed with him , he plays some, then misses some, so I pm'd asking him what's up? He never responds, then I pm him again the next day or two angry when I found others of our games he missed turns, cause I cant stand losing like that, he finally replies and said can you help me out then resends me his password as I had forgotten it, I have taken some of his turns in my games and others, but, couldn't take them all due to real life.

I trusted he could make them, and some days he did, when I noticed some days he was real low on time in my games is when I went and took his 1st 5 turns or so to catch him up, buying him some time if he got on later. I even put it in game chat I took some of his turns to hide nothing. This is not against cc rules either. Then I find out reading above that gradybridges said he had a death in a family recently which explains it, I never knew this!

I just pm'd him again to ask if all is ok, I have heard nothing yet. So, what should I do? Reach out to him again? Do I continue to take some of his turns if I can? Do I let him miss his turns? If he is mourning and feels ok some days, does he take them, and if not, he doesn't?, Do I try to ask him if someone else can take his turns? I am trying to do the right thing here, so asking for help on what to do in this situation? What would you do if this was you in matter? Thx for listening and your support on this matter.

oooh this could get interesting....it will be easily solved though

Blitzaholic wrote:He finally did pm me when he returned to the states and said let's rock out, but may need some help and left me his pw. I did create some games, he did join some and I did join some for him, the only ones I joined for him were some of my inivtes when I noticed the next day he had like 10 hours to join in a 24 hour span, well, when you have to go to work all day, you dont want to come back and take a chance some random dude joined your games, I had that happen in the past plenty of times and it sucks, so yes, I did join some games for him with his permission. This is not against the cc rules and it is not cheating. The public games generally take about 10 to 14 days to fill.

The bolded part is where you went wrong. All was good, until you joined games for him. Taking his turns where he was gonna miss was fine, but to keep putting him in games like that is against the rules. Surely you remember the Maxaststuy case. It had some of that in it.

Bruce, link to where joining an invite with someone's permission is against the rules? I think Blitz is going to be cleared here, maybe noted for joining games and told to have jobiwan drop their games together, but I doubt he'll even get a warning.

Since you asked Jake.... Taken from the FAQ

17. Can I let another player take a turn for me when I am away from the game?

You can, with the stipulation that the account babysitter is not your opponent in any current game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Babysitters should only do what is necessary to take the turn(s) and should not interact with the community, start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.

Edited to add a link...


http://www.conquerclub.com/eticket/index.php#openticket

lol i like the full change on this let me explain why i made this report.

1) I was looking at games in the join game tab yesterday i seen jobiwan had lost loads of points. so i ask a c and a mod about this he told me to make a report. i then brought it up in live chat where others thought this was a abuse and jakewilliams brought it to my attention that blitz was taking his turns so i added you blitz to this case.

as bruce has already posted above making and joining of games is against site rules apart from tourney games or clan related games. you have admitted doing this for several weeks now when instead of joining him up to new games you should of been playing his shots in active games that he was missing. it just seems weird that he has been joining up to tourney games ok. but was not accepting your invites (maybe a reason for it.) but you have admited taking it upon yourself to sign him up when he wasnt responding to you. and not having time to play his current games but adding more games to the list.

Thx Bruce, I forgot that was in the FAQ. I'm still not sold that was totally covering what Blitz did here, but the wording does suggest it. In any case, I would think it would be a warning at most.

eddie:

I noted that Blitz was taking Jobiwan's turns in games together but not in all games, which I said was a legit sitter function. He's not required to take all turns, sometimes I'll just take some turns for another player. Your statement "you should of [sic] been playing his shots in active games that he was missing" is incorrect, Blitz is not required to take ANY turns for him.

Maybe if lack would program a sitting function into the website, issues like this wouldn't happen. Of course not everyone would be happy there, would they?

jakewilliams wrote:Thx Bruce, I forgot that was in the FAQ. I'm still not sold that was totally covering what Blitz did here, but the wording does suggest it. In any case, I would think it would be a warning at most.

eddie:

I noted that Blitz was taking Jobiwan's turns in games together but not in all games, which I said was a legit sitter function. He's not required to take all turns, sometimes I'll just take some turns for another player. Your statement "you should of [sic] been playing his shots in active games that he was missing" is incorrect, Blitz is not required to take ANY turns for him.

Maybe if lack would program a sitting function into the website, issues like this wouldn't happen. Of course not everyone would be happy there, would they?

correct but signing him up to non tourney games and not playing his active games is wrong. (he has admitted this.)that is account abuse. so adding more games to the list that he already cant keep up with is ok?

and also where are these missed turns blitz i only see one. on the 26th march so when did this start because he has been missing tourney games since the 10th.

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?submit=Search&gn=&gs=&np=&mp=&gt=&it=&po=&bc=&ft=&wf=&sg=&pt=&to=&lb=&p1=jobiwan&p2=blitzaholic&p3=&p4=&so=&page=6

and you are still signing him up to games today when he is still missing turns.

show: games 10 mins ago

There is definitely something wrong here.

Eddie reports that jobiwan has been missing turns since march 10th, yet I was assigned 5 tourney games against at the end of last week and he joined all 5 promptly.

He failed to take a single turn and deadbeated out of the lot this morning - I received a whopping 4 points per game. This has clearly been going on for some while and seems very odd that he would log in to join tourney games but not take a turn. He joined the games after me and he got the majority of starts. Why would he sign up, get allocated the starts and not play them?

On the face of it, it looks like either he is point dumping, or he has left CC entirely and his sitters are joining his invites for him then letting those games slide while playing his turns in their team games.

Clearly there would be a benefit to a quads team in employing a cook who consistently loses all games bar his quads matches, in which his turns can be coordinated by a teammate with his password.

We won't know if any rules have been broken until the mods look at the detail, but to sign up for games with a teammate who is on an extended leave of absence until who-knows-when and dropping points fast has the look of a scam.

It might not actually turn out to be a scam; but surely it's better to find a 'live' teammate than risk tarnishing one's reputation by getting involved in these games.

I don't believe this man would cheat or ever contemplate cheating. Although, there does appear to be some shenanigans afoot, hardly anything that would constitute cheating. I think his record would reflect this without question, although, who am I to say?

tourny games are a different issue...public games if he joined then he could be in a bit of trouble. But he likely gets no more than a warning given his clean image so far

codeblue1018 wrote:I don't believe this man would cheat or ever contemplate cheating. Although, there does appear to be some shenanigans afoot, hardly anything that would constitute cheating. I think his record would reflect this without question, although, who am I to say?

Hey people said the same thing about Krusher also. Never be to quick to defend?

lord voldemort wrote:tourny games are a different issue...public games if he joined then he could be in a bit of trouble. But he likely gets no more than a warning given his clean image so far

He already stated he joined for him, then proceeded to take every turn. That is severe abuse?

Everyone is legit until they cheat.

He deadbeated out of four games in my tournament. One of the games was a team game, and at least one of his team-mates is pretty bitter.

If someone joined those games for him in the reasonable expectation that he would be back in time to take his turn, then that is all well and good. Life happens; we all miss commitments that we've made due to unforeseen circumstances. But if they joined those games for him knowing that he would not return then that is wrong.

I know the rules technically allow a turn-sitter to join tournament games, and obviously that provision is there to help tournaments stay on schedule. But it would seem to me that it's intended for absences of a day or two, not to put people into tournaments when they are going to be gone for weeks or months.

To me it all hinges on that key term, "reasonable expectation." Did the turn sitter expect Jobi to be back shortly, or not?

(And not that I have said turn-sitter in the generic sense. If he shared his password with Blitz it's possible that he also shared his password with other people.)

It's interesting that people can share accounts in this game, "turn sitting" or otherwise.

sonicsteve wrote:There is definitely something wrong here.

Eddie reports that jobiwan has been missing turns since march 10th, yet I was assigned 5 tourney games against at the end of last week and he joined all 5 promptly.

He failed to take a single turn and deadbeated out of the lot this morning - I received a whopping 4 points per game. This has clearly been going on for some while and seems very odd that he would log in to join tourney games but not take a turn. He joined the games after me and he got the majority of starts. Why would he sign up, get allocated the starts and not play them?

On the face of it, it looks like either he is point dumping, or he has left CC entirely and his sitters are joining his invites for him then letting those games slide while playing his turns in their team games.

Clearly there would be a benefit to a quads team in employing a cook who consistently loses all games bar his quads matches, in which his turns can be coordinated by a teammate with his password.

We won't know if any rules have been broken until the mods look at the detail, but to sign up for games with a teammate who is on an extended leave of absence until who-knows-when and dropping points fast has the look of a scam.

It might not actually turn out to be a scam; but surely it's better to find a 'live' teammate than risk tarnishing one's reputation by getting involved in these games.

Same situation here regarding Jobiwan (who I really like a lot, as far as his CC-presence goes) and tournament games over the last couple of weeks. Joined them promptly, and deadbeated through for the most part.

As Blitz has broken the rules by joining public games for jobi then how about a point reset for Blitz

Hmm...is he still adding this chap to his games (I noticed some new ones still waiting)? Ballsy stuff.

But it doesn't make a lot of sense. Blitz, as a teams-sequential conqueror, naturally has to play with stripers to maintain score, yet he can't be short of legitimate offers from low-ranked players or from decent players happy to have a low rank to play with him. Therefore, he doesn't need to cheat, go through the bother of lowering the chap's score, take the risk...

I think one slight misconception with the accusation is that there is in someway anything wrong with Blitz playing with three cooks. There isn't. He can do that if he wants. It will piss off those chasing his crown but as far as I know it isn't against the rules.

I always took the view when King_H was conqueror and was up against me that he SHOULD play with a cook..even the points spread up a bit. Of course, I'm not chasing a top 10 position.

So, if it isn't against the rules for the conqueror to play with low ranks then Blitz has no need to cheat on this. Therefore, if he has no need, and he isn't strangely self-destructive (which would go against the basic make-up of a confirmed point whore) then he didn't cheat.

Bruceswar wrote:

lord voldemort wrote:tourny games are a different issue...public games if he joined then he could be in a bit of trouble. But he likely gets no more than a warning given his clean image so far

He already stated he joined for him, then proceeded to take every turn. That is severe abuse?

just a major infraction...and i assume its blitz's first off the top of my head. so just a warning id guesss
thats if there are public games and jobiwan is indeed not around. both of these quite easy for the hunters to work out