jobiwan blitzaholic (warned)

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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby sonicsteve on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:27 am

Night Strike wrote:
...If jobiwan was already in those tournaments, then it's fine for Blitz to join the games for him and take those turns...


Jobiwan was already in the tournaments (unless someone knows of a new one). In the case of the ones I am in with him they are long running.

NightStrike - you say it's fine for Blitz (or whoever was logged in) to join the games and take those turns, but the issue seems to be that someone is joining the games and NOT taking the turns. Is that still fine?

It is allowable for a sitter to join existing tourneys. It is allowable for a sitter to miss turns. It might be allowable, but joining standard games and deadbeating those while joining team games and taking turns can't be morally right.

I can't imagine jobiwan will be too happy when he returns from whatever reallife incident has kept him away to find that his sitter(s) milked themselves a few points in team games while letting his points go into freefall as he dies in every tourney he was in. It's not exactly the behaviour I'd be looking for in someone I'd trusted with my password.

---

Mr Changsha - agree pretty much 100% with your post. There should be no need for him to get embroiled in this when there are so many cooks and cadets around.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby codeblue1018 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:30 am

Bruceswar wrote:
codeblue1018 wrote:I don't believe this man would cheat or ever contemplate cheating. Although, there does appear to be some shenanigans afoot, hardly anything that would constitute cheating. I think his record would reflect this without question, although, who am I to say?



Hey people said the same thing about Krusher also. Never be to quick to defend?



Bruce, we played in many games against Krusher during that time and there is a big difference between both cases. Krusher had people suicide us (jesusreigns) and many others in order for him to win. We eventually caught on to this and his legacy came to an abrupt end. Krusher also had zero affiliation with the site outside of playing games. As I said, there seems to be some shenanigans going on but hardly what I would call cheating. The only reason why I brought the Krusher reasons up was to show the blatant disregard for site rules etc. I just don't see it in Blitz's case. Not saying your wrong, I just don't see it. It also appears from reading some of these posts that most think he's guilty when all the facts aren't even out yet. Lets not be so quick to judge and see what the mods think?
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:48 am

I am sure mods will be looking into this one hard also..
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:56 am

ok from what i am reading as responses is as follows.

1) It is ok to join tourney games

while this is true i do see it as it is not ok to join tourney games and deadbeat them while joining him up to non tourney games and playing all shots. While having the excuse that you do not have time to play his shots.

2) sonic asked about old or new tourneys i did not check further back than the 10th but jobiwans last sign up was on the 6th march.


3) i see many people highlighting different cases but nobody has highlighted 2 cases reciently that this is very close to this. one was herkman with jle's account then the other was the buddysystem case (where nothing could be proven about it being him or a sitter.)


lv you are saying that this is blitzs first major offense but all be it might be his first i can see there are 4 major infractions tied into this if it is blitz doing it.

1)point dumping of jobiwans account.
2)account sharing.
3)sitting abuse.
4) not to sure of the rule but hijacking of the account.

but we do need to wait for a hunters or i think this will be a king a case for a result. but looking at it even after this case was presented and after blitz had responded. blitz had still carried on and made some games inviting jobiwan was this his final attempt to get some points out of his low rank. who in there right mind when a case is made and you have seen it still carry on and make games inviting the player.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Fruitcake on Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:33 am

The question is simple.

Is Blitz joining jobiwan into tourneys where he then deadbeats, whilst adding him to his team and taking his turns in those games?

If Blitz isn't adding him into tourneys then there is little case to answer. There is no law that says ALL his turns MUST be taken by his now usual team mate. Blitz is quite within his rights to just play those games that impact his own results. If Blitz is adding jobiwan to tourneys whilst fully cognisant that they are likely to be lost through deadbeating then that surely is point manipulation.

Whether Blitz is showing huge levels of hypocrisy is another matter all together and one for the community to bear in mind in their dealings with him.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:18 am

Fruitcake wrote:The question is simple.

Is Blitz joining jobiwan into tourneys where he then deadbeats, whilst adding him to his team and taking his turns in those games?

If Blitz isn't adding him into tourneys then there is little case to answer. There is no law that says ALL his turns MUST be taken by his now usual team mate.



i disagree totally with this if jobiwan isnt taking his turns in the tourney (no mater who signed him up.) and he put blitz in charge of sitting his account. Then blitz should not be signing him up to new games (with himself) and using them games as a excuse for not having time to play his other ones.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby lordhaha on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:36 am

I think he should be reset to 1000 points so we can all start betting on how long it would take for him to return to conqueror 8-[

I'll take 6th June.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby jefjef on Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 am

Wow. This is a case of intent.

I do not see blitz having intentions on dumping his pards points. So what if he didn't take turns other than his mutual games.

Yes he joined some public games for him. The ones he invited him to and it seems that blitz had permission to by jobi. Sure that is technically a rules violation but the only intent I see is for blitz's team games to be filled and won by his team.

Account sharing? I don't see any evidence of Blitz creating any games for jobi so that would be a huge stretch to even be considered.

Looking at the scoreboard there are several high rankers that use very questionable tactics to get there. Same with most past conquerors. Blitz isn't one of them.

Intent to cheat and manipulate points. No.

A situation that should be NOTED. Yes.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:04 pm

hummmmmmm have you read blitzs statement properly ?????????????????????

He finally did pm me when he returned to the states and said let's rock out, but may need some help and left me his pw.


he asked for some help taking his turns.

he did join some and I did join some for him, the only ones I joined for him were some of my inivtes when I noticed the next day he had like 10 hours to join in a 24 hour span,


so jobiwan joined some games but did not join others. so blitz took it upon himself to join games jobiwan had not accepted.
he plays some, then misses some, so I pm'd asking him what's up? He never responds, then I pm him again the next day or two angry when I found others of our games he missed turns,


checking back on the first page of games he only missed 1 turn on the 26th march. also why sign him up to games when there is no response from him.

he finally replies and said can you help me out then resends me his password as I had forgotten it, I have taken some of his turns in my games and others, but, couldn't take them all due to real life.


once again he asked you to help him out. this in general is him asking you to help him with games in general but you took it upon yourself to sign him up to new games instead of playing the active games he already had.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby greenoaks on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:48 pm

lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Night Strike on Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:44 pm

sonicsteve wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
...If jobiwan was already in those tournaments, then it's fine for Blitz to join the games for him and take those turns...


Jobiwan was already in the tournaments (unless someone knows of a new one). In the case of the ones I am in with him they are long running.

NightStrike - you say it's fine for Blitz (or whoever was logged in) to join the games and take those turns, but the issue seems to be that someone is joining the games and NOT taking the turns. Is that still fine?

It is allowable for a sitter to join existing tourneys. It is allowable for a sitter to miss turns. It might be allowable, but joining standard games and deadbeating those while joining team games and taking turns can't be morally right.


If a sitter is joining tournament games but then deadbeating out of them, it would be up to the hunters if they think it's equivalent to taking over someone else's account and/or point dumping. If the hunters don't feel that it's a violation, then it would be up to the organizer if they want to allow that person to continue in the tournament or to be replaced with a reserve. Neither of those scenarios involve a Tournament Director making a decision about what is right or wrong. My post was meant to outline the official stance on joining tournament games, not to judge the rightness or wrongness of the actions in this case.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby gradybridges on Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:19 pm

It's crummy to join a tourney game and deadbeat. I'd rather find a reserve even if the tourney started.

And of course Jobiwan "joined" another tourney game Game 8790070 and will probably deadbeat that one too. But he takes his turns in certain new games Game 8771783

Can't he be banned from joining more games while this is being investigated?

I don't know if there is abuse going on but Jobiwan is clearly ruining a ton of games.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bones2484 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:45 pm

gradybridges wrote:I don't know if there is abuse going on but Blitzaholic is clearly ruining a ton of games.


I agree.

Very interesting that Jobiwan is being placed into public farming games for the conqueror while he is being "sat" by said conqueror. Not to mention that every other game said conqueror is not in, he is deadbeating. How convenient... and how totally not surprising.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:26 pm

greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bones2484 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:32 pm

eddie2 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.


Dont put a poll in a C&A thread. Public opinion has no bearing on the decision. Let the mods handle the punishment.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:10 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.


Dont put a poll in a C&A thread. Public opinion has no bearing on the decision. Let the mods handle the punishment.



True, but in the past public pressure to take action has got some.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Gold Knight on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.


Dont put a poll in a C&A thread. Public opinion has no bearing on the decision. Let the mods handle the punishment.



True, but in the past public pressure to take action has got some.


Not sure I would want to be decisions caused by "peer pressure"... This is another C&A case, ignore the fact that he is a conqueror and make it as objecive and fair a decision as possible.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:16 pm

Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby MoB Deadly on Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:10 pm

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.



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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby ljex on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:11 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


How should prominent community members be treated any different if they break the rules they should be penalized the same, that is what fairness is. Its not like if i were to flame in a thread i would be treated any different because i was a mod in the past, a flame is still a flame and should hold the same punishment for everyone.

Also if he was going to join the tournament games he should have been playing them, the spirit of the rule is to avoid disruptions in tournaments, but why join them if he wasn't going to play them? that is essentially the same thing as forfeiting in the long run and would have avoided this whole mess. Also joining tournaments and then dead-beating is basically as disruptive as not joining in the first place.

Truth be told I don't really care what punishment or non punishment is given but it is clear that the rules were violated and something should be done so this doesn't happen in the future.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Kinnison on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:57 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


You neglect to add the possibility (unproven, possibly unprovable) of 6: jobiwan's account JOINING new tournaments while deadbeating out of several already. Who actually signed up for the tournaments? Of course, once IN the tournaments, it's perfectly LEGAL to join the games for them.

I ask this: Is it reasonable to believe that someone having extreme difficulty finding enough time to take turns, relying on team-mates to take team games, in the process of deadbeating out of several tournaments... Would continue to sign up for MORE tournaments?

I don't know when these tournaments started, or when jobiwan's deadbeating started... I'm no mod, no hunter... but this question has been hinted at in the debate. Someone has to ask it.

I don't know if Blitz is guilty. I doubt it, because it seems such a transparent way to screw up. But a lot of "smart" people throughout history have screwed up in ways that, in hindsight, seem like silly errors to make. I think the full investigation should be made, so Blitz can either be proved innocent or caught, as appropriate. I'll hope for the former.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:00 am

His last post was on the 6th... he started missing on the 10th... so we can assume he joined them all.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:09 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


Neatly summed up right up until the last line and a half. Blitz is, in many respects, only following a style I openly advocated when I used to play alongside junior ranks. Just two differences. Firstly, all, and I mean all, of those players are now Sergent 1st class at the very least (many are medium level officers) and have held those ranks long after they have finished playing alongside me. I mention this as it does have an oblique bearing on the character of Blitz. If you read Bones' signature, on the previous page of this thread, he quotes Blitz. This quote is taken from an open post he made when attacking me for this practice.

When he indulged in an orgy of self glorification on attaining conquerer I attacked him for using these methods, as usual his acolytes gathered round and protected their master (whilst on their knees I do not know), I left it. However, it does seem a bit rich that he would seem to be now abusing even that system, which, all said and done does sit on the edge of legality, a fact I have never argued against.

The reason I truly believe I need to mention this point is not to renew the attack on Blitzs's high level hypocrisy. We know he suffers from this already. It is purely because I think he is a complete wanker and deserves public humiliation.

Thank you and so long.
Last edited by Fruitcake on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:25 am

rodion put it best. A warning is due.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:39 am

Ljex - I never said they should be treated differently. I just said I've seen a fair share of cases in which people were clearly guilty (well, that's my opinion) and due punishment end up either with a slap on the wrist or outright cleared for the most ilegitimate reasons (such as a lot of friends saying nothing was wrong because they "knew him" and they would "never do that"). Without mentioning names (because I don't want to jab anyone in particular, just the system), I've seen someone get to general by winning 5 thrown Luxembourg games against a brig/colonel. That event led to an uprising here, with the winner of the Lux games also being accused of a Peloponnesian War scandal. There was abundant proof, enough for a pretty big punishment if you ask me. It all ended with a slap on the wrist ("do not do this again"). The guy who threw the Luxembourg games left totally unpunished, if I recall correctly.

I'm just saying this Blitz thing will likely have a similar end (doesn't mean I think it should end like this).
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