jobiwan blitzaholic (warned)

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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:10 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.


Dont put a poll in a C&A thread. Public opinion has no bearing on the decision. Let the mods handle the punishment.



True, but in the past public pressure to take action has got some.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Gold Knight on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
lordhaha wrote:I think he should be reset to 1000 points

i still think this would be the most enjoyable punishment

can we have a poll


what do you want as options for this.


Dont put a poll in a C&A thread. Public opinion has no bearing on the decision. Let the mods handle the punishment.



True, but in the past public pressure to take action has got some.


Not sure I would want to be decisions caused by "peer pressure"... This is another C&A case, ignore the fact that he is a conqueror and make it as objecive and fair a decision as possible.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:16 pm

Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby MoB Deadly on Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:10 pm

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.



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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby ljex on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:11 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


How should prominent community members be treated any different if they break the rules they should be penalized the same, that is what fairness is. Its not like if i were to flame in a thread i would be treated any different because i was a mod in the past, a flame is still a flame and should hold the same punishment for everyone.

Also if he was going to join the tournament games he should have been playing them, the spirit of the rule is to avoid disruptions in tournaments, but why join them if he wasn't going to play them? that is essentially the same thing as forfeiting in the long run and would have avoided this whole mess. Also joining tournaments and then dead-beating is basically as disruptive as not joining in the first place.

Truth be told I don't really care what punishment or non punishment is given but it is clear that the rules were violated and something should be done so this doesn't happen in the future.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Kinnison on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:57 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


You neglect to add the possibility (unproven, possibly unprovable) of 6: jobiwan's account JOINING new tournaments while deadbeating out of several already. Who actually signed up for the tournaments? Of course, once IN the tournaments, it's perfectly LEGAL to join the games for them.

I ask this: Is it reasonable to believe that someone having extreme difficulty finding enough time to take turns, relying on team-mates to take team games, in the process of deadbeating out of several tournaments... Would continue to sign up for MORE tournaments?

I don't know when these tournaments started, or when jobiwan's deadbeating started... I'm no mod, no hunter... but this question has been hinted at in the debate. Someone has to ask it.

I don't know if Blitz is guilty. I doubt it, because it seems such a transparent way to screw up. But a lot of "smart" people throughout history have screwed up in ways that, in hindsight, seem like silly errors to make. I think the full investigation should be made, so Blitz can either be proved innocent or caught, as appropriate. I'll hope for the former.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:00 am

His last post was on the 6th... he started missing on the 10th... so we can assume he joined them all.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:09 am

Rodion wrote:Let's dot the i's and cross the t's here.

1 - Blitz playing quads with cooks or other low rankers is not against any rule. You can argue that is imoral, but not ilegal.

2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.

3 - The fact that Blitz is still doing those things is not absurd at all. If he thinks he didn't do anything wrong, he has no reason to behave differently. Granted, if admin/mods think he is punishable, the fact that he kept doing it will probably be an aggravating circumstance, but that's a (small) risk he's assuming.

4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).

5 - You could try to argue that him joining tournament games for Jobiwan when he knew Jobiwan would deadbeat them constitutes some sort of infraction, but that is pretty damn hard to prove. Unless he was PMed/walled by Jobiwan saying he wouldn't be able to continue playing, only way to produce proof against Blitz would be through a lobotomy.

In the end, Blitz should only be held responsible for "4" (joining public games for Jobiwan). And, if I learned anything about how C&A forum works when judging prominent premium community members, everything will end with a slap on the wrist.


Neatly summed up right up until the last line and a half. Blitz is, in many respects, only following a style I openly advocated when I used to play alongside junior ranks. Just two differences. Firstly, all, and I mean all, of those players are now Sergent 1st class at the very least (many are medium level officers) and have held those ranks long after they have finished playing alongside me. I mention this as it does have an oblique bearing on the character of Blitz. If you read Bones' signature, on the previous page of this thread, he quotes Blitz. This quote is taken from an open post he made when attacking me for this practice.

When he indulged in an orgy of self glorification on attaining conquerer I attacked him for using these methods, as usual his acolytes gathered round and protected their master (whilst on their knees I do not know), I left it. However, it does seem a bit rich that he would seem to be now abusing even that system, which, all said and done does sit on the edge of legality, a fact I have never argued against.

The reason I truly believe I need to mention this point is not to renew the attack on Blitzs's high level hypocrisy. We know he suffers from this already. It is purely because I think he is a complete wanker and deserves public humiliation.

Thank you and so long.
Last edited by Fruitcake on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Army of GOD on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:25 am

rodion put it best. A warning is due.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:39 am

Ljex - I never said they should be treated differently. I just said I've seen a fair share of cases in which people were clearly guilty (well, that's my opinion) and due punishment end up either with a slap on the wrist or outright cleared for the most ilegitimate reasons (such as a lot of friends saying nothing was wrong because they "knew him" and they would "never do that"). Without mentioning names (because I don't want to jab anyone in particular, just the system), I've seen someone get to general by winning 5 thrown Luxembourg games against a brig/colonel. That event led to an uprising here, with the winner of the Lux games also being accused of a Peloponnesian War scandal. There was abundant proof, enough for a pretty big punishment if you ask me. It all ended with a slap on the wrist ("do not do this again"). The guy who threw the Luxembourg games left totally unpunished, if I recall correctly.

I'm just saying this Blitz thing will likely have a similar end (doesn't mean I think it should end like this).
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby alstergren on Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:54 am

Rodion wrote:4 - Blitz only broke 1 rule here, which was joining public (non-tournament) games for Jobiwan. This one doesn't even need to be investigated as he confessed (page 1).


IMO this isn't a big deal. If people play team games regularly, this is pretty much a convenience thing to do. Fair enough, the rule is clear and this should be avoided, but I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I would be surprised if any regular team game player hasn't formally breached this rule at one point or another in their CC careers.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:41 am

Kinnison wrote:
Rodion wrote:
2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.


lol plz read what he has said properly he is signing him up to these games and playing them. while d/beating the other games.

your point would be valid apart from this one fact.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby gannable on Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:31 am

Fruitcake
"he reason I truly believe I need to mention this point is not to renew the attack on Blitzs's high level hypocrisy. We know he suffers from this already. It is purely because I think he is a complete wanker and deserves public humiliation."

:lol: :lol:


jury says -

violation of the rules - inconclusive

charge of complete wanker - irrefutable
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:09 am

hum is this another twist.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby jpcloet on Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:04 am

In a good sign of faith, Blitz should ask for a block on him and J, and then replace him in all their team tournaments.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:43 am

gannable wrote:violation of the rules - inconclusive


Blitz admitted to it already. It's proven.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:44 am

leolou has now started taking his turns in tourney games
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Woodruff on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:15 am

Rodion wrote:2 - Blitz sitting only the games that concern his persona is not against any rule. You can argue that is selfish, imoral, but not ilegal.


Yes and no. What you say is true, to the extent that you've covered. However, IF Blitz is joining Jobiwan into tournament games, isn't Blitz then responsible for seeing those tournament games through in Jobiwan's absence? I would suggest very strongly that he is. After all, he is then CAUSING the deadbeat, not Jobiwan.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby ljex on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:42 pm

Rodion wrote:Ljex - I never said they should be treated differently. I just said I've seen a fair share of cases in which people were clearly guilty (well, that's my opinion) and due punishment end up either with a slap on the wrist or outright cleared for the most ilegitimate reasons (such as a lot of friends saying nothing was wrong because they "knew him" and they would "never do that"). Without mentioning names (because I don't want to jab anyone in particular, just the system), I've seen someone get to general by winning 5 thrown Luxembourg games against a brig/colonel. That event led to an uprising here, with the winner of the Lux games also being accused of a Peloponnesian War scandal. There was abundant proof, enough for a pretty big punishment if you ask me. It all ended with a slap on the wrist ("do not do this again"). The guy who threw the Luxembourg games left totally unpunished, if I recall correctly.

I'm just saying this Blitz thing will likely have a similar end (doesn't mean I think it should end like this).


For the farming issue it is standard policy to warn people that it is against the rules first before any punishment is given, he was warned and he did stop. Also there is precedent to say that farming when trying for medals not points is ok, though I am not a fan of that one it is there in the B00060 case.

As for the thrown games we all saw that but if someone says they didn't throw the game and were "playing angry" which entails attacking anything and everything on the first turn there isn't much cc can do over 5 games. There are players who play that way every game so can cc punish people for playing bad when they are good? It would open a lot of doors for punishment of people for things that they should not be punished for. I would have liked to see a punishment on this because I thought it was clear, but it was not the black and white issue you make it out to be, as there were other things that needed to be considered.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby 40kguy on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:53 pm

im pretty sure what blitz did was illegal.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby greenoaks on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:48 pm

jpcloet wrote:In a good sign of faith, Blitz should ask for a block on him and J, and then replace him in all their team tournaments.

in a good sign of faith Blitz should ask for a point reset

then we can have a forum game on how long it takes him to prove he truly is the conquerer of us all
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:00 pm

Blitz would get those points back. A point reset would actually punish the community, as they'd have to play against a great player with the cost-benefit of playing against a private 1st class. It would also be good for Blitz's teammates, as they'd play alongside a great player with the cost-benefit of playing alonside a private 1st class.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Rodion on Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:13 pm

Ljex, I understand the defense (good players being allowed to occasionally play poorly due to the interference of emotions such as anger), but, given the circumstances (the guy needing exactly 5 wins against the other guy to get to general, both of them being part of the same clan and the loser of the 5 games being the very guy that made a GD topic congratulating the winner on becoming a general), accepting that just shows that the C&A is but a paper tiger when judging certain people. Granted, other members may have a different view, but that's the way I see it.

My prediction stands: worst case scenario for Blitz, he gets a warning ("don't do that again") and is blocked from playing with Jobiwan.
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby greenoaks on Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:21 pm

Rodion wrote:Blitz would get those points back. A point reset would actually punish the community, as they'd have to play against a great player with the cost-benefit of playing against a private 1st class. It would also be good for Blitz's teammates, as they'd play alongside a great player with the cost-benefit of playing alonside a private 1st class.

your logic sucks all the fun out of this situation :cry:
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Re: jobiwan blitzaholic (updated)

Postby Streaker on Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:17 am

So jobiwan is guested, but not kicked from games? Why can he still take turns?
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