Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby jimfinn on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:58 pm

How could a player play a turn in some of a player's games but not notice all?
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby alstergren on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:21 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:>alstergren - that may be, but did you decide after beating this guy so badly and so consistently to suddenly bring him on to your team and play 500 games with him?


Nope. But I never "loaded" teams with cocks in order to increase my score/rank. Guess if I would want to do that, this guy would be ideal since his score was low and he showed commitment (i.e. not a guy likely to go MIA).
Gengoldy wrote:Of all the games I've played, and there have been some poor sports and cursing players out there, you are by far the lowest and with the least class.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:59 am

alstergren wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:>alstergren - that may be, but did you decide after beating this guy so badly and so consistently to suddenly bring him on to your team and play 500 games with him?


Nope. But I never "loaded" teams with cocks in order to increase my score/rank. Guess if I would want to do that, this guy would be ideal since his score was low and he showed commitment (i.e. not a guy likely to go MIA).


Is this what sitzaholic was doing??? loading teams with cocks?
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:26 am

Fruitcake wrote:
alstergren wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:>alstergren - that may be, but did you decide after beating this guy so badly and so consistently to suddenly bring him on to your team and play 500 games with him?


Nope. But I never "loaded" teams with cocks in order to increase my score/rank. Guess if I would want to do that, this guy would be ideal since his score was low and he showed commitment (i.e. not a guy likely to go MIA).


Is this what sitzaholic was doing??? loading teams with cocks?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
taking a break from cc, will be back sometime in the future.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Robinette on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:58 am

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Take your time gentlemen... take your time... this one is huge..
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby morff69 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:13 am

Fruitcake wrote:
alstergren wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:>alstergren - that may be, but did you decide after beating this guy so badly and so consistently to suddenly bring him on to your team and play 500 games with him?


Nope. But I never "loaded" teams with cocks in order to increase my score/rank. Guess if I would want to do that, this guy would be ideal since his score was low and he showed commitment (i.e. not a guy likely to go MIA).


Is this what sitzaholic was doing??? loading teams with cocks?



LMFAO :-)
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:00 am

Please take discussion elements to the General Discussion topic.


--Andy
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby demonfork on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:35 pm

Verdict already!
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Robinette on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:50 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:We hope to have a ruling by tomorrow's time. All of the Admins (Lackattack, King Achilles, and myself) have been in consultation (and so have the Multi Hunters) for the extent of this re-investigation. Your patience is greatly appreciated.


--Andy


demonfork wrote:Verdict already!



Please don't rush them...

Even after the verdict is decided, whatever it is, the explanation itself could take a long time to be written correctly.
You do realize that this is no ordinary case, and therefore, nothing about it should be rushed.
They need to be thorough and complete with this...


PS - andy, sorry for posting here... please ignore this and please take all the time you need.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby eddie2 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:10 am

It should not be any problem for Andy come on he is really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbPxRAeClJA

we now found where he dissappeared to in 1986.
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Blitzaholic & Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby king achilles on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:49 am

After all the brouhaha, the opinions, the concerns and most of all, the facts of this case, it was agreed that another investigation was needed to be taken further, hence, the re-opening of the case. This re-investigation was undertaken in consultation with all the Admins, as well as the C&A moderators & hunters who also gave their inputs about this case.

I would also like to take this opportunity to apologize for my "local police station" remark as I admit that this case has tested my patience and I didn't take what some of you had said/suggested very lightly during the time when emotions are running high concerning this case. Anyway, moving on, this is the final conclusion:

From All the Admins wrote:Conquer Club has no stipulation that an account sitter take all the turns for the Account they are Sitting, however, we believe that Blitzaholic and Leolou2 engaged in gross abuse of the Jobiwan account, under Account Sitting Abuse.

>>Judging from general time lines, we've concluded that two infractions under Account Sitting Abuse have occurred over a duration of time:
    1. The joining non-tournament games.
    2. Taking turns with Jobiwan account as a second communal account, in games in which the parties had a stake, to gain a tactical advantage.

>>It is clear that Blitzaholic and Leolou2 went beyond the normal scope of Account Sitting, by joining and playing games from start to finish knowing that Jobiwan would be unable to return, that is, the Account Sitting was not a temporary stopgap measure to maintain the account.

>>Blitzaholic was previously only narrowly disciplined for the first Account Sitting Abuse infraction---the joining of non-tournament games (March 15th - 30th). This is what King Achilles and the Multi Hunters determined and took into account at the conclusion of the first investigation.

>>This re-investigation, with input from all the Admins, has now led to Blitzaholic receiving disciplinary action for this second Account Sitting Abuse infraction---taking turns and playing games from start to finish to gain a tactical advantage (March 6th - March 28th). This results in Blitzaholic's Second Major/Severe Infraction (being of game-related), thus a 1 Month Website Vacation from Conquer Club.

>>Leolou2, for their part, will also be disciplined for the second Account Sitting Abuse Infraction, following the above outline and time frames. This results in Leolou2's First Major/Severe Infraction, thus a Warning .

>>The Jobiwan account has been suspended to prevent further Account Sitting Abuse, and can be re-claimed by Jobiwan should he come back to Conquer Club.

>> Because of this, now future cases where it seems that an Account being maintained by Account Sitters has been abandoned for the foreseeable future, that is, that Account Sitting would seem to perpetuate indefinitely, the Account will be suspended from the website until the original owner can file an E-ticket to claim it back under their own power and responsibility.

>> Below, information for your consumption:


show: General Time Line Information


show: Evidence regarding the facts of the above Time Line Information


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

While there has been public discussion about Point Dumping and Point Resets, we do not have adequate evidence or conclusive evidence to pursue an infraction of that nature. We know that some of the public will be disappointed in our inability to pursue this extent of the investigation, but as I mentioned, we do not have adequate or conclusive evidence.

We regret the length of time this re-investigation has taken, but the Admins and the Multi Hunters wanted to make sure that everything was re-looked into fully. We regret the original narrow disciplinary ruling of the original investigation.

We hope that in the eyes of the Community justice has been carried out.

Go forth and Conquer.


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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby eddie2 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:28 am

i am happy at least a punishment has been issued for the abuse of jobiwans account and think this has been a step in the correct direction.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Optimus Prime on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:39 am

While not the punishment I thought would be the best fit, I can fully support the punishment that was meted out to the offenders.

Thank you for re-opening the case and giving it a more detailed examination. I think this speaks rather loudly to the kind of investigation that can be accomplished if community members are willing to take the time to gather the facts and details to provide for the admins/multi-hunters to make fully-informed and educated decisions.

I hope it continues.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:09 am

I hope that the two admins have pointed this out to lack and are using this as evidence why there should be an account sitting feature in this site. The competitiveness of the clans requires password sharing, and it unfortunately leads to cases like this.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:13 am

jakewilliams wrote:I hope that the two admins have pointed this out to lack and are using this as evidence why there should be an account sitting feature in this site. The competitiveness of the clans requires password sharing, and it unfortunately leads to cases like this.


While I dont think this case has anything to do with clan password sharing (that comment is probably better suited towards the Commander case), I do agree with the feature!

And thank you KA for a detailed explanation as to what/why/how. That's all I was looking for!
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Leehar on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:25 am

"March 28th - 31st: Blitzaholic and Leolou2 started to post in game chats about Sitting for Jobiwan's account."
"Game 8636604 [Regular Quads] 2011-03-19 18:00:06 - initialized
[Leolou2 & Blitzaholic game chat posts about sitting]"

:?: :?:

And Bones, it does have a lot to do with Team game sitting tho (Because teammates are dependent upon their partner making turns), and since clans is where most team games occur...
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby KraphtOne on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:42 am

It is very comforting to know that this was given its due attention and a fairly suitable punishment was issued...

In so many of these cases there will be an instance where although every intelligent person viewing the facts can see that an abuse is occurring, it becomes frustrating that (at times) cases are swept under the rug instead of being given their due attention in order to avoid a site changing decision...

The right conclusion was made... Well done...

Very refreshing, perhaps the times they are a changin
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby pearljamrox2 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:58 am

pearljamrox2 wrote:Yo Blitz, nice of you to stop by.

For the sake of having a conversation, I'll pretend I believe everything you've said is true.

Do you realize, that when you invited Jobi to your games, then took his password, logged on and accepted your invites, and then when Jobi never came around so you had to play all his turns in those games you accepted him to, that you really screwed up?

Do you realize that by controlling the entire process of joining and playing out a game without the original account holder involved at all, even though it wasn't your supposed intention, is essential running a multi?

Do you realize, that when you are THE CONQUEROR, and this second account is a 500 cook, and you are playing on a conquest map to point rape people, it looks EVEN WORSE.

Do you see how the two infractions go hand in hand? And how you admitted to the first one and were warned, but the second one was somehow overlooked?

Can you see how someone might say, to receive a warning for account sitting abuse, you would think a guy would first have to be account sitting, which you admit, you really weren't too worried about his "other games".

So is that what we have here? You, unknowingly if you want to say that, joined him to your games, and then, unfortunately for you, it turns out his account is dormant, and you unwittingly multi-ed yourself?



From All the Admins wrote: 2. Taking turns with Jobiwan account as a second communal account, in games in which the parties had a stake, to gain a tactical advantage.

>>It is clear that Blitzaholic and Leolou2 went beyond the normal scope of Account Sitting, by joining and playing games from start to finish knowing that Jobiwan would be unable to return, that is, the Account Sitting was not a temporary stopgap measure to maintain the account.


These are points that I was trying to make, and I am satisfied that the admins acknowledged this. I felt very strongly that this distinction needed to be made to the public.

Believe it or not, I have had mixed feelings as to what the punishment should be. I would take no pleasure in seeing Blitz get nailed to a cross(that was for you Robinette :lol: ). I think the punishment is significant enough, while not being too severe or permanent.

I believe the punishment is enough to make someone think twice about their actions, be it Blitz or anyone else. Whether it was his intention or not, it IS what happened.

A big THANK YOU to Andy for giving us all an opportunity to review this matter, and to all the admins who were involved with deliberating. And also some props for having the courage in the face of "witch hunting, lynch mobs" for not taking it too far the other way. In the end, I believe you got it right, and i am happy to move on from this matter.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Serbia on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:59 pm

I think everyone can be happy with this result. Big props to Andy for re-opening this, and to the entire team for wading through all the evidence and coming up with the most fair result possible.

This is not a "good day" on Conquer Club, but it is good for the community, and the site's reputation, to see that abuse of any kind will NOT be tolerated, and will be dealt with sufficiently, regardless of who's committing the abuse.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Dako on Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:12 pm

Glad to have this case resolved.

Thank you Andy ;).
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Re: Blitzaholic & Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:58 pm

Thanks everyone for reopening the case and giving it a second look

From All the Admins wrote:
March 28th - 31st: Blitzaholic and Leolou2 started to post in game chats about Sitting for Jobiwan's account.


--

So I guess this means there was evidence that blitz and/or leo were taking turns throughout March without announcing? I am glad this was revisited then.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby jefjef on Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:23 pm

>>This re-investigation, with input from all the Admins, has now led to Blitzaholic receiving disciplinary action for this second Account Sitting Abuse infraction---taking turns and playing games from start to finish to gain a tactical advantage (March 6th - March 28th). This results in Blitzaholic's Second Major/Severe Infraction (being of game-related), thus a 1 Month Website Vacation from Conquer Club.



SO Blitz received TWO account sitting abuse punishments from this one case. :?

Double jeopardy is a new low for you CC.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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drunkmonkey wrote:I'm filing a C&A report right now. Its nice because they have a drop-down for "jefjef".
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Johnny Rockets on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:07 pm

Serbia wrote:I think everyone can be happy with this result. Big props to Andy for re-opening this, and to the entire team for wading through all the evidence and coming up with the most fair result possible.

This is not a "good day" on Conquer Club, but it is good for the community, and the site's reputation, to see that abuse of any kind will NOT be tolerated, and will be dealt with sufficiently, regardless of who's committing the abuse.



Well put.

Thank you admin, hunters, and everyone who posted and followed up on evidence forwarded by the community.
There will always be abuse, cheaters, and those who cheapen a site and system we all enjoy.
It's good to see appropriate action taken towards promoting fairness, justice, and integrity for the community at large.

jefjef wrote:
>>This re-investigation, with input from all the Admins, has now led to Blitzaholic receiving disciplinary action for this second Account Sitting Abuse infraction---taking turns and playing games from start to finish to gain a tactical advantage (March 6th - March 28th). This results in Blitzaholic's Second Major/Severe Infraction (being of game-related), thus a 1 Month Website Vacation from Conquer Club.



SO Blitz received TWO account sitting abuse punishments from this one case. :?

Double jeopardy is a new low for you CC.


If you totaled the individual infractions, took into account the significant time line, and factored in the number of players that were affected in skipped turns and lost points, double jeopardy isn't even close to describing this "conviction".

So sorry your bitter about the outcome. You have a month to give your knee-pads a break.

Johnny Rockets
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Fircoal on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:20 pm

Well I'm glad with this result. Seems to take in all of what was said and give out an appropriate punishment. :3 Good job guys.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:39 pm

Now we only have to ban a few more thousand people until I'm conqueror! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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