jdbush chapcrap [noted]

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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby chapcrap on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:38 pm

Flow520 wrote:I know chapcrap only had the best intentions

True.
Flow520 wrote:however he did meddle with an opponents turn.

False. I did absolutely nothing with the turn. I didn't take it. I didn't look at your cards. I didn't look at your chat.

Flow520 wrote:The problem is in fact that chapcrap was involved in the taking of an opponents turn.
Happyfeet should have been allowed to miss his turn (even though it would not have been missed because the game chat shows happyfeet was there to take it). That would have been preferable to chapcrap being involved.

That's your opinion. The actual problem is, if happyfeet had a problem with his sitter, then he could file his own report. He knew everything that happened. Why do you think it is that he didn't file a report? Or cuss me out? Or punch me in the balls? I've seen him do it to friends before, he'd do it to me if I deserved it, I'm sure of it.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:47 pm

Happyfeet should have announced that other, higher ranked players would be taking his turns. I don't see any way to legitimately punish other people abusing an account as it's essentially untraceable.

I would say that CC shouldn't be playing accounts of other members that he knows personally. Playing extra accounts without notifying other players that suddenly they're facing a much higher level opponent than they started with?

Seems like a no-no.

Pretty much as if you made a bet with a mate for one on one basketball, and he subbed himself off for Kobe Bryant.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:52 pm

Symmetry wrote:Happyfeet should have announced that other, higher ranked players would be taking his turns. I don't see any way to legitimately punish other people abusing an account as it's essentially untraceable.

I would say that CC shouldn't be playing accounts of other members that he knows personally. Playing extra accounts without notifying other players that suddenly they're facing a much higher level opponent than they started with?

Seems like a no-no.

Pretty much as if you made a bet with a mate for one on one basketball, and he subbed himself off for Kobe Bryant.


Obviously once again you have spoken about something you know very little if anything about.

Try reading what has happened before you post an inaccurate troll.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby happyfeet on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:56 pm

wow, this is retarded to file a report about. yes, chap helped me cover my games. however, i know he would not ever play any games that we are opponents. I went on vacation in june and chap is my main sitter; and many times i am playing against him in games. he asked others in our clan to cover games for me in which we were against each other. in this situation i was down to 15 mins and got on to see my turn being taken. i wasnt for sure who it was at the time since i knew it was not chap. so, i simply asked chap if he knew who it was and he told me. jdbush is a real life friend and i trust him with my account. once i found out who it was i reported it to flow which i didnt need to do. anyways, a bad turn by a sitter is not a crime or cheating. yes, im not thrilled about it myself that we ended up lossing the game. but i never got another turn so i could say that flow missed played and simply weakened chap for his own teammate to take him out. so, really he could have played his turn different. he should be mad at himself for miss playing. maybe next time he will ask his partner for help.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:56 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Happyfeet should have announced that other, higher ranked players would be taking his turns. I don't see any way to legitimately punish other people abusing an account as it's essentially untraceable.

I would say that CC shouldn't be playing accounts of other members that he knows personally. Playing extra accounts without notifying other players that suddenly they're facing a much higher level opponent than they started with?

Seems like a no-no.

Pretty much as if you made a bet with a mate for one on one basketball, and he subbed himself off for Kobe Bryant.


Obviously once again you have spoken about something you know very little if anything about.

Try reading what has happened before you post an inaccurate troll.


I'm not sure what your criticism is. I'll PM you with details if you want, but the issue of account sitting will always be one of the major bugbears.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby IcePack on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:22 pm

Symmetry wrote:Happyfeet should have announced that other, higher ranked players would be taking his turns. I don't see any way to legitimately punish other people abusing an account as it's essentially untraceable.

I would say that CC shouldn't be playing accounts of other members that he knows personally. Playing extra accounts without notifying other players that suddenly they're facing a much higher level opponent than they started with?

Seems like a no-no.

Pretty much as if you made a bet with a mate for one on one basketball, and he subbed himself off for Kobe Bryant.


1) happyfeet wasn't subbed by a higher ranked player.
2) ChapCrap is happyfeets main sitter, and again they aren't facing a much higher level opponent. Perhaps you should look at players involved here....
3) Therefore since it wasn't a much higher ranked subbing for happy, it wasn't being subbed "with Kobe".

Details matter.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:25 pm

IcePack wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Happyfeet should have announced that other, higher ranked players would be taking his turns. I don't see any way to legitimately punish other people abusing an account as it's essentially untraceable.

I would say that CC shouldn't be playing accounts of other members that he knows personally. Playing extra accounts without notifying other players that suddenly they're facing a much higher level opponent than they started with?

Seems like a no-no.

Pretty much as if you made a bet with a mate for one on one basketball, and he subbed himself off for Kobe Bryant.


1) happyfeet wasn't subbed by a higher ranked player.
2) ChapCrap is happyfeets main sitter, and again they aren't facing a much higher level opponent. Perhaps you should look at players involved here....
3) Therefore since it wasn't a much higher ranked subbing for happy, it wasn't being subbed "with Kobe".

Details matter.


Yes, you're right, and I was wrong. Apologies, and thanks for the correction IP.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby GoranZ on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:27 pm

Flow520 wrote:2012-08-02 20:58:18 - Flow520 [team]: Would that someone have also told chapcrap to take Mumbai because I had the card?

Observation(question is bellow): yellow(12 territories)/blue(8 territories)

chap had: Cairo, Lagos, Dubai and Bogota

Bogota neighbors:
friendly: Lima/Sao Paulo(green)
enemy: Mexico City(yellow)

Cairo, Lagos, Dubai neighbors:
friendly: Istanbul, Moscow(green)
enemy: Nairobi/Dakar/Cape Town(yellow) and Mumbai(blue)

My guess is that chapcrap and jgordon1111 were going after your elimination and didn't expected your set, tho I can not be sure since its hard to read from the game chat.

Something for thinking(both moves are defensive). Timezone: Central European Time Zone
2012-08-02 03:13:57 - jgordon1111 reinforced Bogota with 2 troops from Lima
2012-08-03 02:55:22 - chapcrap reinforced Lima with 1 troops from Bogota

Question: Why chap left 2 units on Bogota before he was eliminated by his teammate if he knew what cards you had? Risky according to me.

Can someone provide us with picture of the actual units distribution after happyfeet's problematic turn or something useful so we wont guess what was going on from game chat?
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Flow520 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:45 pm

Perhaps a better course of action for chapcrap would have been to wall message happyfeet instead of an account sitter. It was not chapcrap's place to ask an account sitter to sit a game for another player. (Especially considering that chapcrap was an opponent in that game!) There is an absolute conflict of interest regardless of intentions.

Opinions aside, the facts are very clear. Chapcrap solicited someone to take the turn of his opponent. (See attached screenshot of jdbush's wall located in first post.) It's pretty direct meddling. This act (however well intentioned) had an adverse effect on the game.
Moreover, happyfeet (friends with chapcrap as claimed by both parties) made the comment that chapcrap has previously engaged in this behavior.
happyfeet wrote:he [chapcrap] asked others in our clan to cover games for me in which we were against each other

If happyfeet is correct, this is not chapcrap's first offense.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby chapcrap on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:50 pm

GoranZ wrote:Question: Why chap left 2 units on Bogota before he was eliminated by his teammate if he knew what cards you had? Risky according to me.

Can someone provide us with picture of the actual units distribution after happyfeet's problematic turn or something useful so we wont guess what was going on from game chat?

Is this relevant?

I'll paste my game chat here for you. There was probably more chat on our walls than in the game. I don't know why that is, but jgordon post on my wall (like the fort I asked about in chat). It's deleted now though, because I didn't want someone to see anything there. Here is the entire thing...pretty crappy chat really:
show


If you wanna know what I was thinking on my turn, I was thinking, 'I'll take the most advantageous tert for me.' I have no idea why I thought it was the one I took. I've played too many games since then and this is just a simple sunny game on Classic, so there wasn't years of thought going into the move or anything.
Flow520 wrote:
happyfeet wrote:he [chapcrap] asked others in our clan to cover games for me in which we were against each other

If happyfeet is correct, this is not chapcrap's first offense.

It's not an offense when it's what happy wants. :roll:
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:54 pm

If you took a turn CC, against yourself, then that is a major offense. Levels of honest play don't even come into it.


Nobody should be allowed to play both sides of a game. It's abuse, pure and simple. You're a mod, and generally a fair one, although I can't say we've not disagreed lately, but I hope that your contributions to the site mitigate this, and they don't let you off either.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby IcePack on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Symmetry wrote:If you took a turn CC, against yourself, then that is a major offense. Levels of honest play don't even come into it.


This isn't what happened. He did NOT take the turn against himself. Him happy and bush are RL friends.
He saw happy was about to miss, so since he COULDN"T take happy's turn - he asked their mutual RL friend bush to cover.

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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby happyfeet on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:01 pm

cut and paste what you want but i was on vacation with no computer so i asked chap to help. there is nothing wrong with that. sorry, if flow has no life and sits and plays cc ever day and has never had anyone ever sit for him. if my time gets low i ask chap to cover me. there is no abuse here. this thread should be locked and move onto catch people who are really cheating.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Symmetry on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:03 pm

IcePack wrote:
Symmetry wrote:If you took a turn CC, against yourself, then that is a major offense. Levels of honest play don't even come into it.


This isn't what happened. He did NOT take the turn against himself. Him happy and bush are RL friends.
He saw happy was about to miss, so since he COULDN"T take happy's turn - he asked their mutual RL friend bush to cover.

IcePack


Essentially the same thing.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:04 pm

LOL I just went back and actually looked at the game log.

Flow,I just realized something,no matter what happened on happy's turn,you gave us the game by leaving chap with one tert left,right next to me.

Your mad because you misjudged taking chap out and left him for me.

J went for happy, yea he didnt read the chat or thought different from your plan. probably because he saw I was set up to try and take him out,so he made it more difficult,trying to save the game maybe?

Chap went and played to get a card.

Then you after looking the board over,kill chap everywhere but 2 troops that are right next to me. the actual loss is directly contributed to your last turn.

Did you think I wouldnt kill chap to win the game or what?

Dont be mad Flow,it isnt worth it. And according to happy,J had every right as a standing agreement it seems to take his turn,many players do this.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby IcePack on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:
Symmetry wrote:If you took a turn CC, against yourself, then that is a major offense. Levels of honest play don't even come into it.


This isn't what happened. He did NOT take the turn against himself. Him happy and bush are RL friends.
He saw happy was about to miss, so since he COULDN"T take happy's turn - he asked their mutual RL friend bush to cover.

IcePack


Essentially the same thing.


Actually its not... the same thing would be chap logging in and playing. Something entirely different would be alerting happy's friend / back up sitter and asking him to cover since chap was facing happy. Totally different.

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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby GoranZ on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:08 pm

Flow520 wrote:Perhaps a better course of action for chapcrap would have been to wall message happyfeet instead of an account sitter. It was not chapcrap's place to ask an account sitter to sit a game for another player. (Especially considering that chapcrap was an opponent in that game!) There is an absolute conflict of interest regardless of intentions.

Opinions aside, the facts are very clear. Chapcrap solicited someone to take the turn of his opponent. (See attached screenshot of jdbush's wall located in first post.) It's pretty direct meddling. This act (however well intentioned) had an adverse effect on the game.
Moreover, happyfeet (friends with chapcrap as claimed by both parties) made the comment that chapcrap has previously engaged in this behavior.
happyfeet wrote:he [chapcrap] asked others in our clan to cover games for me in which we were against each other

If happyfeet is correct, this is not chapcrap's first offense.


wow... easy with the accusations. One thing is accusing someone completely different is proving it ;). For now your accusation is going in a dead end according to me. I see no evidence that chap played specifically to be eliminated before your turn, so I can presume(based on little observation on the game chat) that he didn't knew that you will cash in in first place.

chapcrap wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Question: Why chap left 2 units on Bogota before he was eliminated by his teammate if he knew what cards you had? Risky according to me.

Can someone provide us with picture of the actual units distribution after happyfeet's problematic turn or something useful so we wont guess what was going on from game chat?

Is this relevant?

you don't have screenshot, other team has one.

According to me chap was not preparing him self to be eliminated(reinforcements to Lima to preserve greens territory count up and leaving 2 on Bogota) which means he didn't had any idea what cards did blue had.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Flow520 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:09 pm

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

So, I added a link to the picture: Game Board: Round 8. Green's turn. Set at 15.

As requested, here is a screenshot of the board just after I used my set to take out the rest of red. Had the sitter (requested by chapcrap) followed the plan laid out in game chat (deploy 3 on Mexico city and take Bogota) and had it succeeded (which had high probability), then I would have had 6 cards, traded for 15, hit green, and ended turn with 4 cards. Green would not have been able to respond because he only had 2 cards.

[Edit: added link to the uploaded file]
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby IcePack on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:15 pm

You're upset that someone didn't read chat? You know how often that happens?
A poor move played by a sitter who wasn't chap, perhaps. But that doesn't mean its some grand conspiracy to make you lose.
Even happy has come to say chap and bush are his sitters and asked for chap to watch the account while he was gone etc.

Pretty sure your trying to read way to much into this.

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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby happyfeet on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:17 pm

Flow520 wrote:
Round8Board.JPG
As requested, here is a screenshot of the board just after I used my set to take out the rest of red. Had the sitter (requested by chapcrap) followed the plan laid out in game chat (deploy 3 on Mexico city and take Bogota) and had it succeeded (which had high probability), then I would have had 6 cards, traded for 15, hit green, and ended turn with 4 cards. Green would not have been able to respond because he only had 2 cards.


so chap took his turn. you take out chap leaving him next to green. green cant cash because you say he only has to cards. then, maybe you should have set me up to take out red? but you went and didnt even ask for a new game plan.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:18 pm

Flow520 wrote:
Round8Board.JPG
As requested, here is a screenshot of the board just after I used my set to take out the rest of red. Had the sitter (requested by chapcrap) followed the plan laid out in game chat (deploy 3 on Mexico city and take Bogota) and had it succeeded (which had high probability), then I would have had 6 cards, traded for 15, hit green, and ended turn with 4 cards. Green would not have been able to respond because he only had 2 cards.



But you didnt bring up the shot previous to that one which shows I was lined up on yellow pretty good,ergo he stopped one of my terts to make it difficult to take him out.

And why on earth did you follow thru with a plan that was busted that allowed me to finish the game? You handed us the game with your turn,Why?
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby Flow520 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:19 pm

IcePack wrote:You're upset that someone didn't read chat? You know how often that happens?
A poor move played by a sitter who wasn't chap, perhaps. But that doesn't mean its some grand conspiracy to make you lose.
Even happy has come to say chap and bush are his sitters and asked for chap to watch the account while he was gone etc.

Pretty sure your trying to read way to much into this.

IcePack

I'll repeat.
It was not chapcrap's place to ask an account sitter to sit a game for another player. (Especially considering that chapcrap was an opponent in that game!) There is an absolute conflict of interest regardless of intentions. Opinions aside, the facts are very clear. Chapcrap solicited someone to take the turn of his opponent. (See attached screenshot of jdbush's wall located in first post.) It's pretty direct meddling. This act (however well intentioned) had an adverse effect on the game.
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:24 pm

Flow520 wrote:
IcePack wrote:You're upset that someone didn't read chat? You know how often that happens?
A poor move played by a sitter who wasn't chap, perhaps. But that doesn't mean its some grand conspiracy to make you lose.
Even happy has come to say chap and bush are his sitters and asked for chap to watch the account while he was gone etc.

Pretty sure your trying to read way to much into this.

IcePack

I'll repeat.
It was not chapcrap's place to ask an account sitter to sit a game for another player. (Especially considering that chapcrap was an opponent in that game!) There is an absolute conflict of interest regardless of intentions. Opinions aside, the facts are very clear. Chapcrap solicited someone to take the turn of his opponent. (See attached screenshot of jdbush's wall located in first post.) It's pretty direct meddling. This act (however well intentioned) had an adverse effect on the game.


I dont get the conflict of interest part,all 3 are friends,are you saying J intentionally hurt happy for chap to win? I dont think so,played chap several times never got the idea in any way he was or is dishonest.

Are you one hundered percent sure happy would not have made the same play,considering how I was set around him?
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby IcePack on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:29 pm

Flow520 wrote:
IcePack wrote:You're upset that someone didn't read chat? You know how often that happens?
A poor move played by a sitter who wasn't chap, perhaps. But that doesn't mean its some grand conspiracy to make you lose.
Even happy has come to say chap and bush are his sitters and asked for chap to watch the account while he was gone etc.

Pretty sure your trying to read way to much into this.

IcePack

I'll repeat.
It was not chapcrap's place to ask an account sitter to sit a game for another player. (Especially considering that chapcrap was an opponent in that game!) There is an absolute conflict of interest regardless of intentions. Opinions aside, the facts are very clear. Chapcrap solicited someone to take the turn of his opponent. (See attached screenshot of jdbush's wall located in first post.) It's pretty direct meddling. This act (however well intentioned) had an adverse effect on the game.


Happy clearly has used bush in the past, and are friends and comfortable with him being sat by either chap or bush. Chap couldn't take that turn, so if he knows bush is the other sitter its natural to ask him to cover that game.
Not that hard to comprehend mate, if I know your sitter is Bob, and for some reason i can't sit for you or dont have the PW i would message Bob if you were low on time and get him to cover. The fact he's an opponent in the game only strengthens the point chap had to ask one of happy's other sitters.

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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: jdbush chapcrap [pending]

Postby GoranZ on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Flow520 wrote:
Round8Board.JPG
As requested, here is a screenshot of the board just after I used my set to take out the rest of red. Had the sitter (requested by chapcrap) followed the plan laid out in game chat (deploy 3 on Mexico city and take Bogota) and had it succeeded (which had high probability), then I would have had 6 cards, traded for 15, hit green, and ended turn with 4 cards. Green would not have been able to respond because he only had 2 cards.


jgordon1111 had 1 unit on Sao Paulo before your turn(tho it doesn't matter how many units did it had there, I presume more then 1 if he doesn't attack down to 1) and your teammate had 4 in Mexico City. So that leaves only 1 way for you to eliminate chap if he knew that you were able to cash in, and that is threw Sao Paulo... So why chap didn't reinforce Sao Paulo but he reinforce Lima and leaving 2 units on Bogota? Personally if I was on chaps place and I knew that you had a set I would have reinforced Sao Paulo(probably with all my units on Bogota).
Last edited by GoranZ on Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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