petarvulf [noted] BG

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petarvulf [noted] BG

Postby Lindax on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:33 pm

Accused: petarvulf

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide).

Game number(s):

Game 11493865

Comments: After quite a few rounds the player in question had a big buffer of a 58 troops of a deadbeating player, blocking him in Australia. He then did what most of us would have done, he started picking the players of, one by one. The remaining players decided to eliminate as many of his troops possible outside of Australia, mainly to prevent him from winning the game easily, because of his buffer. All of this was discussed in the chat, no secret diplomacy. We didn't take out all of his troops and he actually cashed his card set before any of us, leaving him with a big stack outside Australia.

Naturally, he didn't like what was happening and he decided to attack green (happens to be me) to a point where green had nothing left and he himself had nothing left, i.e., he suicided. This led to red winning the game, which was fine by me. Nevertheless he deliberately threw the game by suiciding, being a vindictive ass, while we all still had a chance of winning the game, including himself.

Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx
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Re: petarvulf

Postby GeneralRisk on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:34 am

I looked it over and see no evidence of suicide. From the chat it appears u tried to get the other players to gang up on Peter. You probably should of focused your attention on Red and saved yourself 30 some odd points. I can tell your butt hurt and u have my sympathy. FAMO
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Re: petarvulf

Postby jghost7 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:13 am

Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:14 am

petarvulfhas been cleared of deliberately throwing a game

He played the game and tried to win. You were the most vocal in forming the alliance against him and became his number one target.

Edit: changed to noted after a second look
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Re: petarvulf

Postby lt.Futt on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:45 am

jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.
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Re: petarvulf

Postby hmsps on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:08 am

lt. Futt wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.
I take the challenge of who has the most open speed games :P
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Re: petarvulf

Postby jgordon1111 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:36 am

hmsps wrote:
lt. Futt wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.
I take the challenge of who has the most open speed games :P



But will you take that challenge in esc 5-8 player sunny unlimited classic lol, I think that was the point LT Futt was trying to make. Not many will or do.
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Re: petarvulf

Postby hmsps on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:52 am

jgordon1111 wrote:
hmsps wrote:
lt. Futt wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.
I take the challenge of who has the most open speed games :P



But will you take that challenge in esc 5-8 player sunny unlimited classic lol, I think that was the point LT Futt was trying to make. Not many will or do.
Of course, just coz i don't play them doesnt mean i cant. I dont play them usually because some idiot either a) is a bonus monkey or b) goes for a kill and even when they have no chance, they continue with the attack giving the game away. Hence you get reports like this. Maybe you would like a challenge?
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Re: petarvulf

Postby jghost7 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:09 am

lt. Futt wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.


Hey there Lt. Futt,

No offense to either you or Lindax, but it is what it is. This report should have been never posted. His willingness to play these types of games is irrelevant to whether his loss of points was a motivation to file the report, neither did I definitively say that it was the reason. I can understand him being frustrated by the outcome of the game and how it happened, but as you say, with his experience he should know that this was not a C&A matter.

Thanks,

J
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby Lindax on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:49 am

BGtheBrain wrote:petarvulfhas been cleared of deliberately throwing a game

He played the game and tried to win. You were the most vocal in forming the alliance against him and became his number one target.


That's where you're wrong BG. He did NOT try to win. He targeted me alright, but he could never reach my troops in North America. You can see in the game log that at the end of his turn he even attacked two of blue's territories to leave himself with 18 territories with 1 army on each. He left me with 16 troops in North America, while red and blue had 100+ troops each and a cash-in of 65!

He attacked knowing that he could not kill me, left me with few troops and left himself with 1s everywhere. He did NOT try to win and that was totally obvious, you can ask the other players.

Now, I understand his frustration, but it is still deliberately throwing a game, which is against the rules. Hence my report, even if it's only for future reference.

To the rest of you: I'm not frustrated or angry, I understand why he did it. And I don't care about losing points.

Lx

PS: If you still think this is not deliberately throwing a game I would like to hear from you what you consider deliberately throwing a game.
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Re: petarvulf

Postby jgordon1111 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:27 pm

hmsps wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:
hmsps wrote:
lt. Futt wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Lindax wrote:Other: Gross abuse of the game. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games (in this case by suicide). ...


I love it when people throw around 'Gross abuse of the game' as a charge. Lame.



Lindax wrote:...Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all gonna say FAMO, and I have and I will. None-withstanding, I'm reporting him for deliberately throwing a game and I would like this to be "noted".

Lx


He did not deliberately throw a game. It is funny that you don't get it. You surely get that it is ok for multiple players to gang up on the game leader via chat coordination but have such righteous indignation when he decides to fight back? LOL :lol: Maybe it was the 51 points that stung more? I don't know. Either way, It would seem that this is a vindictive report because you did not appreciate the end result of a game.

These things happen in these types of games and you really can't be surprised at the result. You are right, FAMO, is your best option. I do not think a 'noted' will be warranted or given here.


Thanks,

J


You're wrong about Lindax. I don't know any high rank that lose more points than Lindax in open speed games (maybe except from myself). This is somehow all about passion for the style. Points doesn't mean a thing else Lindax would stop playing open speed 2-3 years ago, and maybe more. What does this say? As far as I concider Lindax is among the most patient player I know. Open speed games are really fustrating. When Lindax opens a C&A report, I take him seriously. He's got the experience and he knows what he talking about. Any high rank want to try the same amount of open speed as Lindax, be my guest. I guarantee that you freak out and have enough after 1 year.
I take the challenge of who has the most open speed games :P



But will you take that challenge in esc 5-8 player sunny unlimited classic lol, I think that was the point LT Futt was trying to make. Not many will or do.
Of course, just coz i don't play them doesnt mean i cant. I dont play them usually because some idiot either a) is a bonus monkey or b) goes for a kill and even when they have no chance, they continue with the attack giving the game away. Hence you get reports like this. Maybe you would like a challenge?


HMM what kind of challenge?
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:53 pm

@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby hmsps on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:04 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.
Come on everyone picks on the chip leader he hits back, i would have done exactly the same as would many others, why people cant just play their own game is beyond me.

i also think its absolutely deplorable that you can change a decision. You have a care of duty for all on this site not just those who shout the loudest.

In fact you need to re look at this one which was cleared viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174959&hilit=kingm

Admitted to doing it.

Plenty of players suicide to save points etc.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:28 pm

He didnt really shout that loud...
it was noted for possibly suiciding.

hmsps wrote:i also think its absolutely deplorable that you can change a decision.


If I make a mistake, Id rather fix it.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby hmsps on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:31 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:He didnt really shout that loud...
it was noted for possibly suiciding.

hmsps wrote:i also think its absolutely deplorable that you can change a decision.


If I make a mistake, Id rather fix it.
What about the other case link supplied same difference?
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Re: petarvulf [noted] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:39 pm

If you dont like that ruling, you should post in that thread. This thread is for this specific case. The two games and cirucmstances appear very different to me, but I didnt look at that one deeply.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby Lindax on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:59 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.


Thank you.

Lx
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby jghost7 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:41 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.


That is a load of crap. If that was considered deliberately throwing a game then there are hundreds of games you need to look at. It is utterly ridiculous to classify this as throwing a game, even for a noted.

BG please explain how this fits under this category. I don't understand how you could consider this at all.

Thanks,

J
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Re: petarvulf [noted] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:43 pm

I noted it for "possible suicide"

Could it have been suicide? Possibly.

Sorry you don't like the rulIng but I felt that if this player was to do something similar in the future this game would be possibly considered evidence.
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Re: petarvulf [noted] BG

Postby jghost7 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:48 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:I noted it for "possible suicide"

Could it have been suicide? Possibly.

Sorry you don't like the rulIng but I felt that if this player was to do something similar in the future this game would be possibly considered evidence.



Suicide? or Deliberately throwing a game? He definitely wasn't point dumping, so what else would it fall under? As far as I am aware, a player still has the liberty to decide who and how he/she attacks. As I see it, Lindax provoked that attack and played a significant role in yellows demise.

As far as I know, suiciding itself is not against the rules and happens on a daily basis. Whether it is a noob move, retaliation, or a way to give up once you are beaten, it does happen. Upon inspection, the deliberately throwing games has direct relevance regarding point dumping or directly benefiting from thrown games. I cannot find any other reference to it in the community guidelines.

There is also the perspective of the player. You would have to consider that he either a) didn't think he could win and/or b) hit back on his main aggressor. He was fully within his rights as a player to do this.

Are you saying that he deliberately threw this game or not? And if you are saying this, are you saying that it is relating to point dumping or what? I wouldn't think so.

IMO, he was frustrated at the circumstances and struck at who he perceived to be cause of his issue. I can't see all of the details but I assume that Lindax had cards to worry about as well so I would not want him sitting on top of me either.

This simply is not a ' deliberately thrown game' and so it should not be 'noted' either, since it is not a thrown game it would not stand for evidence of said rule.


Thanks,

J
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:55 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby jghost7 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:21 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.



Sweet. This answers nothing that I asked and seems a bit lazy. I don't think that I am asking too much when asking for clarification of the rules for this case. Either it is or it isn't. And once again, you say suicide. What is relevant is whether this is considered throwing the game or not. If it is not, then it being noted is unwarranted. If it is, then show it and clarify where it falls within our guidelines here.

As I see it, only a cleared is warranted here, and if you feel that a noted is warranted, then I would like to know how it fits. Your quoted attempt at that explanation falls way short of that.

Thanks,

J
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby hmsps on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:02 am

jghost7 wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.



Sweet. This answers nothing that I asked and seems a bit lazy.
Totally agree, I have asked similar questions. Basically they have no answers. Its a case of this is the ruling and thats that.

You could look at most of the ESC games and make that ruling, absolute crock!!
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby lt.Futt on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:07 pm

hmsps wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.



Sweet. This answers nothing that I asked and seems a bit lazy.
Totally agree, I have asked similar questions. Basically they have no answers. Its a case of this is the ruling and thats that.

You could look at most of the ESC games and make that ruling, absolute crock!!


File C&A report. Can't blame Lindax and the mods. Petarwolf knows better. We all know.
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Re: petarvulf [cleared] BG

Postby jghost7 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:35 pm

lt. Futt wrote:
hmsps wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:@Lindax - I went back over it. I can agree with you that noting it as possible suiciding seems fair. This way in the future, if something similar happens whoever handles that will be able to see this game as well.



Sweet. This answers nothing that I asked and seems a bit lazy.
Totally agree, I have asked similar questions. Basically they have no answers. Its a case of this is the ruling and thats that.

You could look at most of the ESC games and make that ruling, absolute crock!!


File C&A report. Can't blame Lindax and the mods. Petarwolf knows better. We all know.


That is the point. There should not even be a report. Yet when asked to explain the details, we are blown off. This needs to be clarified.
You are right, can't blame Lindax for filing, even though he should have known better, but the mod is another matter. Indeed, he initially began with the correct ruling, then turned around and reversed it to a noted for future evidence. When I asked for details, he is a no show?

Thanks,

J
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