freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

[IcePack]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

This isn't a new rule. It's been around a long time now. This really doesn't have anything to do with new clan rules. Even if it was offered he posted very clear he didn't want a clean slate.

If this isn't considered account sharing. I would very much like to know that. I can save myself a LOT of time, trouble, PM's and heart ache trying to figure out how are games are going and instead of PM'ing and looking at logs, etc I can just save time and go right to the source.

IcePack

[clangfield]

Perhaps we should just ban clans altogether.
If people are going to behave like idiots then they should be treated accordingly.
Using another's account to see what's going on in a fog game should be instant removal from the site. Why bother playing fog if you can't cope with not seeing the opponents' positions?
It's akin to playing golf by picking up the ball, dropping it in the hole, and claiming to have gone round in 18. This is a game - play it properly or not at all.
How about we have no rules and everyone's dice is always a six?

[Arama86n]

Perhaps we should just ban clans altogether.
If people are going to behave like idiots then they should be treated accordingly.
Using another's account to see what's going on in a fog game should be instant removal from the site. Why bother playing fog if you can't cope with not seeing the opponents' positions?
It's akin to playing golf by picking up the ball, dropping it in the hole, and claiming to have gone round in 18. This is a game - play it properly or not at all.
How about we have no rules and everyone's dice is always a six?

You have totally misunderstood what this is about.
The issue is not about gaining an advantage in-game in any way, what he is doing is logging into accounts of his own clan-mates so he knows how said clan-war games are going without having to ask the people involved and to save time.
For the record I'm not endorsing his actions (or commenting the matter at all), just explaining to you what this is about as you seem to want to share your subjective opinion regarding a matter of which you have no understanding.

[clangfield]

You're right. I have no understanding of why anyone would be so obsessed as to need to look into other people's games.
My opinion is subjective, but then, aren't all opinions subjective?
For what it's worth... I have no problem with people sitting on behalf of someone if they are due to be absent. It's the potential to do it whenever and wherever one feels like it that I'm not comfortable with. It's effectively making the clan a multi.
I suppose as long as this is restricted to clan v clan games, and everyone knows it's allowed, then it shouldn't impact on "ordinary" games for ordinary players, but it shouldn't be allowed outside of the clan-destine world.

[freakns]

1) You're right. I have no understanding of why anyone would be so obsessed as to need to look into other people's games.
My opinion is subjective, but then, aren't all opinions subjective?
For what it's worth... I have no problem with people sitting on behalf of someone if they are due to be absent. It's the potential to do it whenever and wherever one feels like it that I'm not comfortable with. It's effectively making the clan a multi.
2) I suppose as long as this is restricted to clan v clan games, and everyone knows it's allowed, then it shouldn't impact on "ordinary" games for ordinary players, but it shouldn't be allowed outside of the clan-destine world.

1) thats because you are not in the clan. yes, i know its just a game. but so is basketball
2) why would i want to look into "ordinary" game? i have no interest in those games weather my clan mate is winning or loosing, makes no difference.

ill try to repeat again, so everyone understand. i havent effect any game nor clan security with my actions. if its forbidden and consider being account sharing, then yes, i should be banned. but rule is still stupid.

[macbone]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.

In my understanding of "account sharing," two or more players regularly play on the account. No, I don't agree that clan leaders should regularly log in to their clanmates accounts to check on a game, and our clan doesn't do that (as far as I'm aware), but there's no easy way to give advice in foggy games short of taking a snapshot, uploading it, and posting it somewhere (which is why we don't teach foggy games in SoC terminator/standard school).

I sincerely hope this clan rules issue is not going to turn into a witch hunt to see how many players can be banned for questionable practices. I'm not in favor of banning anyone other than the grossest offenders of site rules. Banning a significant portion of players for potentially gray areas of misconduct doesn't make good economic sense; providing clear, simple-to-follow rules that enable us all to play fair, enjoyable games does.

[Funkyterrance]

i want to acknowledge i have done this. im not ashamed of it, nor do i consider it cheating. if this however is cheating and banable offense, then im guilty and i will gladly pay the price for it.

The big question is Freak: Are you going to continue to do it?
I don't think most will hold it against you if you have done it in the past since as you pointed out, many others seem to have done it as well. However, now that it has been firmly established that it's not going to be permitted in the future, we all hope that you are on board.

no, that is not the big question. i can say i will, i can say i will not, it doesnt matter. truth is, i can do all this without being notice(just as much as i could chose to be silent about it). we in Otpisani share same flag, i can change IP whenever i want to, so if its so important to me to break the rules, i can lie here and continue to break them. simple as that. as i said already, i have no problem of not looking into the fog games, but then lets all do not only that but define every single thing to the letter. they say 1hr rule is going to take place now. good. then if someone takes the move 1hr and 1 minute before deadline should be banned. and thats just one example. that is the big question. and then lets see how far shell we go in securing noone is breaking rules.
and you know what is the answer? they will not do that, they will not ban someone for taking turn 1 hr and 1 minute before deadline. they will say its just one minute.
then youll have a player who is absent for 3 straight weeks. it will go down like this:
saturday 1: josko here playing for moonchild. emergency absence in place. he was fucking the sheep and got his dick stuck, surgery was required. im glad to say both him and sheep are OK, but he will need weekend for recovery.
saturday 2: josko here playing for moonchild. terrible tragedy has strike us. moonchild broke his nail while trying to type, he is in mourn and can not play any moves until they properly bury the nail.
saturday 3: josko here playing for moonchild. you remember that sheep from couple of saturdays ago? well, she is giving birth and moonchild and brucewar are in hospital checking their DNA to be sure whos lamb it is, otherwise they will refuse to pay child support. filthy whore! i will play instead of brucewar too, obviously...
etc, etc... and it will be given to clan directors to decide when he crossed the line.(which is foul by itself because its not strictly defined but rather subjective ) and meanwhile, you will have Q&A forum filled with stupid accusations.

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

it is not a new rule. account sharing has been forbidden for a long time now.

everytime he logs onto another's account he is sharing it with that player as he is not there to cover an about to be missed turn.

you see, this guy gets it. follow the low to the letter. no grey area here.

Freakns, I realize the point you are trying to make but I think you may underestimate how serious the mods can be about this sort of thing. If you continue to "peek" at other players games you are account sharing. In a perfect world everyone would believe you when you say you don't offer advice but the fact is that people are distrustful of people they don't know in rl. I get the impression that you don't believe that you will get banned for any of this because you consider it trivial but I can assure you that not everyone does. Does admin? Who knows? They won't say even if they do think it's silly because they have a role that requires them to take seriously what the players take seriously.
Ultimately it does come down to you respecting the rules of the site and respecting your peers. If you aren't gaining any advantage by peeking into game by giving advice then why is it such a big deal for you to stop in the interest of your fellow players? I don't think you want to get banned but counting on the fact that you think the matter is trivial is not helping your case.

[Funkyterrance]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.

Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.

[Vid_FISO]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.

Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.

Not good in any environment, are the majority of players cheats? The majority of clans? The excuse being that "everybody else is doing it"? The more this continues the more distasteful it is.

[IcePack]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.

In my understanding of "account sharing," two or more players regularly play on the account. No, I don't agree that clan leaders should regularly log in to their clanmates accounts to check on a game, and our clan doesn't do that (as far as I'm aware), but there's no easy way to give advice in foggy games short of taking a snapshot, uploading it, and posting it somewhere (which is why we don't teach foggy games in SoC terminator/standard school).

I sincerely hope this clan rules issue is not going to turn into a witch hunt to see how many players can be banned for questionable practices. I'm not in favor of banning anyone other than the grossest offenders of site rules. Banning a significant portion of players for potentially gray areas of misconduct doesn't make good economic sense; providing clear, simple-to-follow rules that enable us all to play fair, enjoyable games does.

This is completely against the rules. He wasn't giving advice, he was just looking at others games. If you are logging into other accounts and giving advice in chat, thats also against the rules. This has been pretty clear from the start. I dont think its "grey" at all, our clan has always understood this as a improper practice and seems like lots of others have as well. If your clan (or OTP) has been doing this, its against site rules. He's continued to say post a C&A and if its wrong then he'll accept punishment, etc. so here we are. It isn't a witch hunt.

You shouldn't be logging into someone elses account, other than to take a turn as a sitter. Pretty clear! Not to give advice, not to look at games, not to joke around or save time by looking behind the fog.

If this practice is allowed, than this C&A case will clear it up and I can save myself a LOT of time and heartache while trying to figure out where we are in wars. And if we can get advice, then i'm sure we in the Fallen will start improving right away. We will have an answer shortly.

IcePack

[IcePack]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.

Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.

+1 from every member of the Fallen. This shouldn't be common practice, its CLEARLY against the site rules.

[macbone]

Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?

[IcePack]

Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?

It is when you log into someone elses account.

[Lindax]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.

This getting worse and worse. I have now seen several TeamCC Members admitting to "doing it', condoning it, or at least admitting they know it's a "fairly common practice".

First of all, of course it's against the rules. The rules are crystal clear. How come seemingly intelligent people don't get it?

Second: You shouldn't be in a clan war or tournament (or any other tournament, actually) if you cannot play the game and/or take your turns. Why the hell do we have the rules about so many games per player in clan wars (for example). And what's the point playing at all if you can't play a game without advice form somebody else?

This is getting ridiculous. High time CC starts implementing the clear and simple rules and get rid of the cheaters!

Lx

[hwhrhett]

everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...

[IcePack]

everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...

There are already rules in place for some of these, not even included in the new rules, that people just seem to be ignoring. Picking and choosing which ones they like to follow.

[Vid_FISO]

everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...

There are already rules in place for some of these, not even included in the new rules, that people just seem to be ignoring. Picking and choosing which ones they like to follow.

The issue now seems to be that people with coloured names accept it as common practice. I don't mind losing, it's something that I'm quite good at after all, but if it's not my actual opponent(s) but someone else pulling their strings just what is the point?

[Qwert]

well, if some player use this,then what its purpose for some other player to be in clan? Its look that one player can be everything in one clan-leader, player 1,player 2 ,player 3,,,,,,,,, Its like having puppet army.
I know that in mine clan people play on maps what they have best knowledge. People never going to learn how to play,if some other people play on hes account.

[freakns]

well, if some player use this,then what its purpose for some other player to be in clan? Its look that one player can be everything in one clan-leader, player 1,player 2 ,player 3,,,,,,,,, Its like having puppet army.
I know that in mine clan people play on maps what they have best knowledge. People never going to learn how to play,if some other people play on hes account.

again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!
let me rewrite this in serbian, so im sure you understood me:
nisam igrao poteze umesto drugoga, nisam cak ni davao savete drugima, vec sam se logovao da vidim stanje na fog mapama bez da uticem na igru na bilo koji nacin. jel sada jasnije?

[Funkyterrance]

Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?

Mac, I am entirely sure that you didn't realize that this sort of thing is against the rules but it is. I will admit that I too have done this, one time exactly. It was not a clan game but a friend of mine asked me to look at a game and see what I thought. I later learned that it was against the rules and I haven't done it since nor will I ever do it again. I actually remember feeling pretty guilty afterwards since if I had thought it through more thoroughly I would never have done it. In the moment I was focused on doing a favor for my friend but this was not fair to my friend's opponent and I wish I could take it back.

[Lindax]

again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!

I talk about breaking the rules.

Ok, I murdered somebody, but hey, I didn't steal his money or in any other way benefited from it.

Question freakns: Was it ok for me to commit the murder?

A rule is a rule, you break the rule, you break the rule.

Lx

[freakns]

Freakns, I realize the point you are trying to make but I think you may underestimate how serious the mods can be about this sort of thing. If you continue to "peek" at other players games you are account sharing. In a perfect world everyone would believe you when you say you don't offer advice but the fact is that people are distrustful of people they don't know in rl. I get the impression that you don't believe that you will get banned for any of this because you consider it trivial but I can assure you that not everyone does. Does admin? Who knows? They won't say even if they do think it's silly because they have a role that requires them to take seriously what the players take seriously.
Ultimately it does come down to you respecting the rules of the site and respecting your peers. If you aren't gaining any advantage by peeking into game by giving advice then why is it such a big deal for you to stop in the interest of your fellow players? I don't think you want to get banned but counting on the fact that you think the matter is trivial is not helping your case.

i dont think its trivial, i think its stupid. i also said, i have no problem of stop doing that, but in that case we are coming down to trust issue. as i said i can easily play this from different IP addresses(since i have dynamic IP address, after rebooting my router i will get different IP address... and i play game regularly from 3 different IP address from which only one is static) and we all share the same flag. so it comes down to trusting me if i say i will not do it anymore, just as it comes down trusting me when i said i havent given any advice or take move instead of someone.

[IcePack]

Freakns it was brought up as well from what macbome said not directed @ you. Perhaps it's best to stay on topic and discuss the rest elsewhere. (macbone comment specifically)

[freakns]

again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!

I talk about breaking the rules.

Ok, I murdered somebody, but hey, I didn't steal his money or in any other way benefited from it.

Question freakns: Was it ok for me to commit the murder?

A rule is a rule, you break the rule, you break the rule.

Lx

and i said im fine with taking punishment for something i have done, simple as that.

[macbone]

Funky, I'm pretty sure giving advice on a game is not against any site rules.

Rules are revised when it's clear that they're not fair (see same sex marriage, legalization of pot, and abolition of slavey for three examples of this). I don't see a victim in what freakns is describing, and although I have no reason or desire to do what he's describing, I can't see that it either harms anyone in the game or fits any but the broadest interpretation of account sharing (ok, so maybe not the broadest - some argue having another player's permanent password would be account sharing, but I'm pretty sure IcePack agrees with me that that's not account sharing).

Does the practice harm someone else? Does it result in an unfair advantage? Does it result in Conquer Club being a less enjoyable place to play? These are the criteria that are lost important to me.

And yeah, sorry for muddying the waters - freakns is describing checking the progress of a game, not giving advice or suggesting strategy.