throwing a game[warned]

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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:32 am

Bruceswar wrote:Nobody is saying these guys are not skilled, but to win at the rate they do is just not within the realm of normal winning rates even for the best players.


well Shannon just said they don't deserve their rank.

So you are saying that with this win rate they have been cheating all along and essentially discrediting the skill? :o

i'm sorry....I am done for sure this time.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:48 am

jsnyder748 wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Nobody is saying these guys are not skilled, but to win at the rate they do is just not within the realm of normal winning rates even for the best players.


well Shannon just said they don't deserve their rank.

So you are saying that with this win rate they have been cheating all along and essentially discrediting the skill? :o

i'm sorry....I am done for sure this time.



No I am saying with a 68% win rate between the 2 of them when they play together is really fishy for 8 man games. 12% is a normal win rate, and if you double that up you are a great player. So 25% max for each ... but you cannot add 25% and 25% as 2 good players will void each other out to a degree. So the win rate for the 2 of them should be about 40% not 68%. Say whatever you want about their skill, there is just something that is not right. The numbers do not lie.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:56 am

Totals31 Field Marshal +10243 390 from 1728(23%) 1453 (31) Serial Killer (66%)1402 Equalitarian (0.819)

These are my 8 man freestyle stats. As you can see a good win rate is 23% or so... I am not saying people cannot have better win rates, but just not right with 68%
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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby eddie2 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:59 am

this case is going to be good to watch.. there are several outcomes to this from what i can see.

1) if more games are found a block between the 2 of them...

then also because of the game chat in the game in the op.

manipulation of the scoreboard this comes under special case (from what i remember same as point dumping.)
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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:06 am

Totals Field Marshal +11944 641 from 1076(60%) 2368 (49) Warmonger (85%)1378 Point Hoarder (0.528)
mine^^ if i map ranked correctly

I have been colonel or brig for the majority of 8 man games so point hoarder is a given when playing das schloss or other objective maps. I started out with normal escalating freestyle and transitioned to objective escalating when i realized its potential so long ago. I think you will find that objective does provide a much higher win percentage. and what they do is not too out of the ordinary for objective players. I probably have played more 8 person objective than anyone on cc however.

explain to me why 68 percent is unbelievable? 8 person without objective is what you seem to be talking about

EDIT: it seems as if my maprank ads in quads freestyle as well. that may explain the .528 and high win percentage.
I try clicking on assassin terminator and standard only but it still seems to add in quads in some way...
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:59 am

Totals Field Marshal +4367 364 from 1403(26%) 1518 (55) Serial Killer (71%)569 Point Hoarder (0.735) Your stats... Just like mine you have a 26% win.. 3% higher than me, but in the same vain.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:08 am

Here is Kiron alone...

Totals2 Brigadier40 +2460 92 from 172(53%) 474 (9) Warmonger (89%)76 N00b Farmer (0.453)

Waterloo2 Colonel337 +1663 53 from 79(67%) 295 Grim Reaper (93%)123 N00b Farmer (0.391) <--- It takes a lot to get that low of a rank vs you.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby smegal69 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:32 am

Game 10773020 :-$

chat from game, 2012-03-20 00:38:23 - donelladan: u come by pink, ur suicide failed, u'll still lose a lot of points
show: What the Girls say about Smegal69
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby SirJohn13 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:53 am

I don't find the 68% win rate between the two of them strange at all. 8-player freestyle games in objective maps like Third Crusade are quite tricky, allowing the player who has mastered them to win much more frequently than 1/8 of the times. Of course occasionally you might fall victim to very bad dice or an unreasonable attack by some noob. If however there are 2 players who excel in these settings, the chances that 1 of them wins can be extremely high (even 75-80% wouldn't surprise me), it is some sort of a guaranteee
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:00 am

SirJohn13 wrote:I don't find the 68% win rate between the two of them strange at all. 8-player freestyle games in objective maps like Third Crusade are quite tricky, allowing the player who has mastered them to win much more frequently than 1/8 of the times. Of course occasionally you might fall victim to very bad dice or an unreasonable attack by some noob. If however there are 2 players who excel in these settings, the chances that 1 of them wins can be extremely high (even 75-80% wouldn't surprise me), it is some sort of a guaranteee



Did you look at the stats of me and Jsynder.. our stats are very close. J plays his fair share of fs games on maps like they play. Why is he soo low and they are soo high? Surely he does not suck that bad!
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:15 am

Bruceswar wrote:
SirJohn13 wrote:I don't find the 68% win rate between the two of them strange at all. 8-player freestyle games in objective maps like Third Crusade are quite tricky, allowing the player who has mastered them to win much more frequently than 1/8 of the times. Of course occasionally you might fall victim to very bad dice or an unreasonable attack by some noob. If however there are 2 players who excel in these settings, the chances that 1 of them wins can be extremely high (even 75-80% wouldn't surprise me), it is some sort of a guaranteee



Did you look at the stats of me and Jsynder.. our stats are very close. J plays his fair share of fs games on maps like they play. Why is he soo low and they are soo high? Surely he does not suck that bad!


I just searched for games (not maprank) I had only played 680 or so 8 person freestyle games not 1,400. I searched standard assassin terminator, 8 people, freestyle.

Surely you can't be serious, and don't call me SHIRLEY!

If you look at my das win percentage on 8 person it probably doesn't even compare to 58 percent though. :/
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:52 am

I was wondering how long it would take for this thread to come out.
How long will the fight against ISIS take?
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby KraphtOne on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:02 am

Snyder... They shouldn't be allowed to play in games with each other... Kiron has been busted for multis and banned from playing standard games with "housemates" before...

Giving someone that has done so many shady things over his time here the benefit of the doubt... It's crazy...
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:08 am

Bruce is right.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:42 am

KraphtOne wrote:Snyder... They shouldn't be allowed to play in games with each other... Kiron has been busted for multis and banned from playing standard games with "housemates" before...

Giving someone that has done so many shady things over his time here the benefit of the doubt... It's crazy...


I never said anything about where I stand as far as whether I believe they shouldn't play together. I agree with you if anything. if me and zidane - 21 (my real life friend) played all these games together it would not be alright. It would be unfair.

I am arguing his skill level. It was called into question by maybe someone who doesn't understand fully. I know most of you do understand, however.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:52 am

There is no skill involved when two people are in cahoots in a freestyle game. The only brain cells necessary are those needed to synchronize watches with your (unannounced) ally and to take it in turns winning the spoils.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:37 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:There is no skill involved when two people are in cahoots in a freestyle game. The only brain cells necessary are those needed to synchronize watches with your (unannounced) ally and to take it in turns winning the spoils.


In this particular case yes, but not in the majority of their games. That is my point. It doesn't really matter anymore.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:29 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:There is no skill involved when two people are in cahoots in a freestyle game. The only brain cells necessary are those needed to synchronize watches with your (unannounced) ally and to take it in turns winning the spoils.


In this particular case yes, but not in the majority of their games. That is my point. It doesn't really matter anymore.


You sound like Dennis Rodman. "This Kim guy has killed millions of people and starved his nation? Who cares? Other than that, he's great! I like him!".
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby b00060 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:52 pm

Ditto that
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm

well. If i tell the truth him and xiang I would consider "online risk friends" they sort of introduced me to what I liked about cc when starting out. The freestyle 8 person games. Told me strategy and were always friendly.

No one really cares what I think, but I just like talking and stating opinions and getting all of yours in return.

and b00060...I really don't remember why I unfoed you. Mistake on my part.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Kiron on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:28 pm

I believe I already mentioned that this deal was a mistaken understanding of the rules based on falling victim to this in many past games. Thanks jsynder748 for your kind defence. I only came back to play from retirement because xiangwang (he was getting bored) wanted me to play against him to spice up his games. We dislike teams mostly because the points win rate is too long compared to loss rates given our rank. It's been seen from our past logs that we can play fine without each other in games (of course it makes sense that our mutual win rate may increase when we play freestyle together, just add our two base chance of winning together). But that's like saying MC and I can't play games together because the chance of our win rate together increases. I understand that you are angry at the single game, it was just a mistaken understanding of the rules based on past experience of being victim to it believing it was legal.
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Re: throwing a game

Postby mc05025 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:32 pm

xiangwang wrote:Look at this game:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12075780


I am so glad I am an example at those cases!

Although I do not know if what we did was tottaly ok (that story with the gambling games started long ago with me and Rodion by the way and was never brought here) but it is not the same like what you did.

Anything we did (diplomacy and gambling) was concerning the specific game. Anything was clear at the game and all players of the game had the opportunity to see what is going on. Nothing outside of it. What you did was outside the game. It is the same like telling him that you will give him 5 dollars if he gives you the game or you can play a poker game or you can just give the game because something at your personal life.
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Re: throwing a game[pending]

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:36 pm

For reference, that's the original game:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8807710
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Re: throwing a game[pending]es

Postby Shannon Apple on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:55 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:I don't know why your group think it is fine to what looks like passing the conquerer title around. The second linked game seems like it is the same bunch of people, or some of them. It's kinda dumb if you ask me, because it hasn't been earned. Part of the fun in any game is earning the rewards and KNOWING that you earned it without having it handed to you. It kinda takes away the novelty of gaining such a title when people pull stuff like this. :(

Just my 2 cents.


Who are you to say they have not earned it? Have you worked as hard as them in the few games they play at a time to win? They spend more hours than most watching just one game to make sure they have the best chance possible. They have perfected a strategy for freestyle 8 person games and for objective freestyle games. Is it unlike Ljex who played freestyle quads, blitzahalic who played quads, mc05025 who was an amazing strategist and won in multiple areas consistantly, TheBest when he played 1 v 1 city mogul vs anyone who wanted to play him and won vs even the best of us, or kaskeval who played sequential 1 v 1's (the most unbalanced game settings in cc) and still made it.

What conquerer was able to achieve his rank by playing any type of game vs anyone? none. absolutely none (unless you count the beginning of cc when anyone could get conquerer). That is what conquerer is these days. The person who specializes at a certain game type. The person who puts in the time. The person who has the strategic knowledge. The person who is able to find their niche or the road less traveled by others to reach a high rank.

No one who plays simple games vs other established players will ever reach it. That is the nature of conquerer and the nature of the dice. However noble it is, however fun it is, they will not get to conquerer that way. What you are saying is to reward those players with conquerer when they can never reach it because of the current system. I realizeed this long ago. I love playing other majors/colonels in team games on simple maps just for fun, but the dice decide mosst games.

These "people" who play together all understand the strategy behind it. Others don't do the strategy because they don't understand, or they don't have the time or they think it is cheap. I don't think any strategy is cheap if you make it your own.

It is not strategy to farm new players of course. It is strategy to use settings, maps, and a gametype to your advantage and skill set. Why do you think these "players" have gotten so high in the ranks? because only a few truly get it and can get to the rank.

I was in the game in question. I am not happy to lose in this way, but to say that kiron does not deserve conquerer is obsene. He could have gotten it another way if he chose.

Decide what you like about the tactics used in this game, but Kiron has worked hard and beat the odds to get here.


I know enough about the game to know the behaviour in that game isn't right. You can defend them all you want. :3

Nobody deserves a rank no matter how hard they work, if in the end, someone else has to set games up for them. Like I said, it takes the novelty away if people are going to think "Hey what's the point, people just give each other points to get there." It destroys the whole sense of achievement behind the title. I don't think throwing games back and forth can be defended, no matter how skilled one is as a player.

I never said they didn't have skill. I would rather not have words placed in my mouth (or fingers as the case may be.) However, from what I see, no, they don't deserve the title if this is how it's achieved. At least be realistic. There are many players on this site, many more skilled than me, but this does not prevent me from seeing an injustice.

Do you think throwing games is fair to all the other players in the game? Am6zero certainly didn't agree to it or he wouldn't have made this thread. I don't care if he is of a lower rank, he was just as entitled to a fair shot of winning as everyone else. He shouldn't have had to report it, because it shouldn't be happening and I stand by this point because this is a game and conquerer isn't really a title that gets elected, it gets earned. (Again, I did not say the player is without skill. I actually have no idea how skilled he is, nor do I care. I only care about this incident and other possible ones like it)
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Re: throwing a game

Postby xiangwang on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:15 pm

mc05025 wrote:
xiangwang wrote:Look at this game:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12075780


I am so glad I am an example at those cases!

Although I do not know if what we did was tottaly ok (that story with the gambling games started long ago with me and Rodion by the way and was never brought here) but it is not the same like what you did.

Anything we did (diplomacy and gambling) was concerning the specific game. Anything was clear at the game and all players of the game had the opportunity to see what is going on. Nothing outside of it. What you did was outside the game. It is the same like telling him that you will give him 5 dollars if he gives you the game or you can play a poker game or you can just give the game because something at your personal life.



I disagree. In that game the three of you made a bet with 33% odds for the winner to win the game. It's no different than what happened in our game. I originally offered using castile vs. granada for an 85% odds for me and i also offered 3 games and kiron must take all 3 to win. The odds were the same and all were open in chat. Kiron just chose the latter instead of the former. So u saying if kiron chose the castile vs. granada then we would be the same?
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