Kiron & xiangwang[banned/blocked]sn

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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Tenebrus on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 pm

Excellent questions Rodion.

Oops?

ETA: If you share a computer - ever, then you have to be barred from the same games. How can you maintain fog if you are sharing the same computer sometimes?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:52 pm

Rodion wrote:This is getting interesting.

Do you share a computer or does each of you own one?


King Achilles already asked us that question. We have 1 common desktop in the house in the main living room. We also have our own laptops. Kiron was using the common desktop when i was logged in checking the forums (we never look at each other's games, it's unsporty nor do we need to, we can predict where most troops are anyways). He forgot to log me off :lol:

P.S. It's already been established we are not multis.

Anyways, this is getting off topic. Chariot's case relies on the fact that

A. We are perfect and CANNOT make mistakes
B. Our win rates playing together are significantly higher than playing alone
C. We have intention to cheat and play as a team


Regarding

A. This is wrong on so many levels that I won't bother answering it
B. It's already shown that they are not statistically different
C. This cannot be proven, and the one time we made a deal was based on misunderstanding of the rules
Last edited by xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Tenebrus on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:56 pm

And if you take turns on the common desktop, has there never been a situation where Kiron/you forgets to log out completely before you sit down and take your turn? Have you really never seen fog from both of your perspectives?

It's really hard to believe that you both ensure that level of care about the issue - I know I wouldn't be that fascist about it with a room-mate. And it's difficult for you to claim to be when you're obviously lax enough with it to accidentally post from each other's account.

Given all that - can you come up with a reason why you shouldn't be barred from playing together?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:01 pm

Tenebrus wrote:And if you take turns on the common desktop, has there never been a situation where Kiron/you forgets to log out completely before you sit down and take your turn? Have you really never seen fog from both of your perspectives?

It's really hard to believe that you both ensure that level of care about the issue - I know I wouldn't be that fascist about it with a room-mate. And it's difficult for you to claim to be when you're obviously lax enough with it to accidentally post from each other's account.

Given all that - can you come up with a reason why you shouldn't be barred from playing together?


We usually take great care, this instance was an instance of forum posting so we won't have the game menu screen to remind us who is actually logged in. Also if there EVER was a case, one forgets to log off, then we would realize it's someone else's account based on the game screen where ur name is highlighted before u enter the map. I know I would log off immediately and I would assume Kiron would do the same. It's no fun looking at each other's screens in fog anyways, because a fun part is guessing where troops are, and that takes it away.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Tenebrus on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:05 pm

That's what I would say in your place, but put yourself in other people's shoes. It's hard to believe that you never look over Kiron's shoulder, or vice versa. That you never forget to completely log out. That an unfair advantage is never given.

I don't think for a minute you guys are systematically farming or cheating, but anyone who plays with you can't be sure and there's no way to guarantee you're not getting a subtle advantage because of it. Hard to see any other right answer than barring from you playing together. If you're both as good as I think you are, it'll be fine.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Keefie on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:06 pm

Caught with both hands in the Cookie jar..

'We usually take great care...' Careful not to get caught, more like - Well you fucked that one up.

Kiron , Rank = CHEATERER
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:08 pm

Tenebrus wrote:That's what I would say in your place, but put yourself in other people's shoes. It's hard to believe that you never look over Kiron's shoulder, or vice versa. That you never forget to completely log out. That an unfair advantage is never given.

I don't think for a minute you guys are systematically farming or cheating, but anyone who plays with you can't be sure and there's no way to guarantee you're not getting a subtle advantage because of it. Hard to see any other right answer than barring from you playing together. If you're both as good as I think you are, it'll be fine.


Even if that would be the case, and the moderators view it that way, then we would just stop play FOG games together, seeing each other's map have no impact on Sunny games.

Regarding FOG games, one of the fun aspect is guessing, Kiron and I are competitive, this adds another level to attempt to outplay each other. Looking at each other's map takes the fun away, we have no incentive to do that when we can almost accurately guess most of the deployments (MC can attest to that)
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Tenebrus on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:18 pm

And maybe that'd do it, although it still doesn't help with people feeling like you play by different rules with each other than against other people (no backstabbing for example). It also doesn't address that it can be really important to know when a player in a 24 hour fs game is going to take their turns. There's other advantages you could get even in sunny games.

I think that you can probably see why people can't be sure - why play with that cloud over you, and with people feeling like there's an injustice going on. Do you really need to play against each other in multiplayer games? No-one's stopping you playing dubs, trips or quads together if you want to hang out online.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:24 pm

Tenebrus wrote:And maybe that'd do it, although it still doesn't help with people feeling like you play by different rules with each other than against other people (no backstabbing for example). It also doesn't address that it can be really important to know when a player in a 24 hour fs game is going to take their turns. There's other advantages you could get even in sunny games.

I think that you can probably see why people can't be sure - why play with that cloud over you, and with people feeling like there's an injustice going on. Do you really need to play against each other in multiplayer games? No-one's stopping you playing dubs, trips or quads together if you want to hang out online.


We do backstab (only when we know the other side can't retaliate properly), I have kicked Kiron to the other side of the map before knowing he can't retaliate and vice versa. We don't attack each other if we know we won't have overwhelming victory or ally support because we know how to defend ourselves and it seems like a futile effort being bogged down into an unproductive war while other players race towards the objective.

We spend enough time online that most of the time it doesn't matter so we know when most people play.

We already addressed the dubs, trips, and quads problem, We like to play against each other, it's more challenging. we also like diplomacy, because I admit, my win rates DROPS when there are less players bc I can't use the time to maneuvre myself into a favorable position or if I make mistakes, I have less time to recover when there are less players. Also, it's been established that I can only win a certain % of games, I'm not going to play settings where I don't at least break even in points when my win/loss tally comes up. Playing dubs 4 player freestyle is just as hard as playing 8 players freestyle if not harder and we get rewarded with 1/2 the points if not less, but lose the same with a loss.

P.S. When starting a game, an advantage is already given based on map settings. People play with friends/clan mates all the time, I have no clue whether they backstab or not. Overall, the bonus is the same.

Say if person X and Y are clanmates/friends and they play many singles 8 player freestyle or seq games together. Person X wins 20% of his games without person Y present and then wins 21% with person Y present. Person Y wins 15% of games in 8 player without person X present and wins 17% with Person X present. Would people accuse them of cheating?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Tenebrus on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:33 pm

Yeah, but you have to balance the benefit to 2 players out of x thousand in playing against each other vs tainting the gameplay of a large number of players who play against you both and can't be sure that you aren't cheating.

I get that it sucks, but you have to see it from other people's perspective.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Qwert on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:36 pm

ok, people its time to enter into spiritual world. These seance will lead famous spiritual medium xiangwang . He will try to make contact with Kiron , ghost trap between two worlds. Xiangwang will drop into trances, and then Kiron will take control,and speak through hem. Please take your seats, light a candle, and take in hand. Its time to start......ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby xiangwang on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:41 pm

qwert wrote:ok, people its time to enter into spiritual world. These seance will lead famous spiritual medium xiangwang . He will try to make contact with Kiron , ghost trap between two worlds. Xiangwang will drop into trances, and then Kiron will take control,and speak through hem. Please take your seats, light a candle, and take in hand. Its time to start......ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


That's actually pretty funny! :lol:
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby freakns on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:51 pm

that actually is easier to believe then story you are trying to sell! :?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby rishaed on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:01 pm

freakns wrote:that actually is easier to believe then story you are trying to sell! :?

:lol: :lol:
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Qwert on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:03 pm

xiangwang wrote:
qwert wrote:ok, people its time to enter into spiritual world. These seance will lead famous spiritual medium xiangwang . He will try to make contact with Kiron , ghost trap between two worlds. Xiangwang will drop into trances, and then Kiron will take control,and speak through hem. Please take your seats, light a candle, and take in hand. Its time to start......ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


That's actually pretty funny! :lol:


ok, are we speak with xiangwang or kiron? :?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby eddie2 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:12 pm

freakns wrote:Game 7370815- Kiron started his turn, make a move like he is going after objective, then after hitting Krak des Chevaliers he is failing even to advance his troops for 5 seconds, in which time xiangwang start his move and winning the game! now, im not good freestyle player, ill never will be one, but ive seen good freestylers taking 7-8 territories for 5 seconds... and even though im not good freestyle player im still able to log out, log in with different credentials and click start within 5 seconds...also, i have never seen their moves overlapping, so while they might be different players, its just possible they are playing from same computer? and doing that in FOG games, when they are starting moves in 10 seconds apart?!


wow a bit off subject here but are you also admitting a multi or account sitting abuse..
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Leehar on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:17 pm

eddie2 wrote:
freakns wrote:Game 7370815- Kiron started his turn, make a move like he is going after objective, then after hitting Krak des Chevaliers he is failing even to advance his troops for 5 seconds, in which time xiangwang start his move and winning the game! now, im not good freestyle player, ill never will be one, but ive seen good freestylers taking 7-8 territories for 5 seconds... and even though im not good freestyle player im still able to log out, log in with different credentials and click start within 5 seconds...also, i have never seen their moves overlapping, so while they might be different players, its just possible they are playing from same computer? and doing that in FOG games, when they are starting moves in 10 seconds apart?!


wow a bit off subject here but are you also admitting a multi or account sitting abuse..

More likely sitting a turn when there's little time left?


qwert wrote:
xiangwang wrote:
qwert wrote:ok, people its time to enter into spiritual world. These seance will lead famous spiritual medium xiangwang . He will try to make contact with Kiron , ghost trap between two worlds. Xiangwang will drop into trances, and then Kiron will take control,and speak through hem. Please take your seats, light a candle, and take in hand. Its time to start......ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


That's actually pretty funny! :lol:


ok, are we speak with xiangwang or kiron? :?


Go easy on the guys, attack the play-style not the player ;)

My only advice for them is to stop worrying about the points, as I'm sure they must realise, not many people give much credence to the title of conqueror and the associated points & they've certainly not helped matters. Better to enjoy themselves and not stress so much about point-gain so that they & we can feel better about them, which from my pov is infinitely more valuable!
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby mc05025 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:18 pm

A year or something ago Kiron was busted for being multy. At that game in which I was playing too (and he was playing with his 'multy') we had a discusion and what I understood is that he was leaving with his sister (he had an emergency and his sister end a very important turn)!! I do not really know where they are living but that was what I thought. If I go back to the chat I might be able to find it.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Kiron on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Sorry, had to go for a bit. Yeah, I was in a rush, forgot to check whose account was logged in earlier, my bad. Regardless, this thread is turning in a gong show where all original accusations have been answered with rational and plausible responses.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby SirJohn13 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:20 pm

Actually the whole story is your fault mc to begin with, since it is you I think that came up (and taught Kiron) with this strategy that Kiron employed (and perfected it) in to become conqueror...


P.S. * I think mc meant to write living, not leaving
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Kiron on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:24 pm

mc05025 wrote:A year or something ago Kiron was busted for being multy. At that game in which I was playing too (and he was playing with his 'multy') we had a discusion and what I understood is that he was leaving with his sister (he had an emergency and his sister end a very important turn)!! I do not really know where they are leaving but that was what I thought. If I go back to the chat I might be able to find it.


Yeah, my sister was temporarily staying with us at that time. What's wrong with that? Does not mean xiangwang was not living with me too.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby cooldeals on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:27 pm

So I do note a lot of chatter in gamechat, but in none of the games have I seen an agreement of "Okay xang, you clear the way for me in this game and I will go take the objective." Just because you chat some in gamechat about alliances does not mean you are not using secret diplomacy. Coordinating moves outside of gamechat is secret diplomacy and xang has pretty much admitted they do communicate outside of gamechat in almost every game from "hey I'll start the turn so you can win...ready?" to "hey I'll go clear out the objective for you so you can take it and then start so you can win". These things aren't posted in gamechat so they are "secret". If I coordinated these things via PM I would not get away with it either. You hide behind the rules you are breaking. Reminds me of GLG and his technicalities to his farming.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby freakns on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:32 pm

eddie2 wrote:
freakns wrote:Game 7370815- Kiron started his turn, make a move like he is going after objective, then after hitting Krak des Chevaliers he is failing even to advance his troops for 5 seconds, in which time xiangwang start his move and winning the game! now, im not good freestyle player, ill never will be one, but ive seen good freestylers taking 7-8 territories for 5 seconds... and even though im not good freestyle player im still able to log out, log in with different credentials and click start within 5 seconds...also, i have never seen their moves overlapping, so while they might be different players, its just possible they are playing from same computer? and doing that in FOG games, when they are starting moves in 10 seconds apart?!


wow a bit off subject here but are you also admitting a multi or account sitting abuse..

never had multi nor did i abused account sitting, but if i am asked to sit for someone, i always log in on my account first, check everything i need, then(watch now, this is extremely important!)
1- i log out
2- log in to an account im sitting for
3- enter the first available game
has this satisfied your curiosity?
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang[pending]sn

Postby Kiron on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:33 pm

cooldeals wrote:So I do note a lot of chatter in gamechat, but in none of the games have I seen an agreement of "Okay xang, you clear the way for me in this game and I will go take the objective." Just because you chat some in gamechat about alliances does not mean you are not using secret diplomacy. Coordinating moves outside of gamechat is secret diplomacy and xang has pretty much admitted they do communicate outside of gamechat in almost every game from "hey I'll start the turn so you can win...ready?" to "hey I'll go clear out the objective for you so you can take it and then start so you can win". These things aren't posted in gamechat so they are "secret". If I coordinated these things via PM I would not get away with it either. You hide behind the rules you are breaking. Reminds me of GLG and his technicalities to his farming.


We didn't. It's all baseless speculation anyways just bc we are RL friends. Of course, you can't prove or disprove it, so it's innocence until proven guilty (you're going to have to trust our word, hard i know). And xiang did not concende we communicate outside gamechat. Xiang will start the turn without telling me, i'm usually watching a movie while smashing "b" nor do i tell xiang.
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Re: Kiron & xiangwang

Postby cooldeals on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:41 pm

xiangwang wrote:Regarding dovetail our turns, yes, it helps that in RL i know when kiron is taking his turn, but people on the site can coordinate that too. There are many games that I seen players do it. To ban two players from playing with each other because they are friends in RL and can coordinate turns easier, well, that's absurd because that is something that the site CANNOT control. To ban every RL friend from playing each other bc they can coordinate turns easiers is absurd and would be detrimental to the site as a whole.

Again every truce we have is ANNOUNCED in chat. We BOTH play to win, we don't need secret diplomacy for that. An honestly, regarding the end of turns K/X/K or X/K/X, we both have greasemonkey that once objective is captured, we just put a weight on the B button and game is as good as won. There was no point in attempting to stop it, so we usually just do the courtsey of ending the game. I have RARELY seen games last when a player has the objectives and don't win the moment someone else start their turn (yes, there is odd cases when I don't have my laptop to spam B, but rarely).


So none of this is Xang admitting that you communicate outside of gamechat? Hard to believe as he admits to communication but it's not in your gamechat. AKA Secret Diplomacy.

This is only his first post. Maybe I should go through all the posts you've written for each other too.
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