jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby greenoaks on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:00 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby nicestash on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:03 pm

greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?

Yes please, this seems silly!
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby 40kguy on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:10 pm

We are looking at this all wrong

the point of this site is to have fun and nothing is more fun than wining. Mods are here to make it fair and fun for everyone, because if someones cheating its not fun.

We were getting to the point were we were debating about the ruling over a sentence.

At the end of the day we need to ask ourselves "Did he make the game less fun for everyone else?" "Did he do something that wasn't fair?"

The answer to both questions is no. He posted in game chat, so everyone knew his plan (making it fair).
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:26 pm

greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?


rds is the community manager. king achilles is the ultimate arbiter of rules violations, and he has posted his comments. They make sense, as the rule is quite clear. If people insist that we should make it "must only be posted in game chat" because they don't think the sentence is yet clear enough, we should do this. Nevertheless, it is grasping at straws. The rule says diplomatic discussion must be posted in game chat. jricart posted diplomatic discussion somewhere other than game chat. Open and shut.

And as for whether posting on someone's wall should be considered "secret" diplomacy, that's not relevant to this particular case.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?


rds is the community manager. king achilles is the ultimate arbiter of rules violations, and he has posted his comments. They make sense, as the rule is quite clear. If people insist that we should make it "must only be posted in game chat" because they don't think the sentence is yet clear enough, we should do this. Nevertheless, it is grasping at straws. The rule says diplomatic discussion must be posted in game chat. jricart posted diplomatic discussion somewhere other than game chat. Open and shut.

And as for whether posting on someone's wall should be considered "secret" diplomacy, that's not relevant to this particular case.


Seems people are always going to try for the loophole.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby SaMejoHn on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:07 pm

Instead of accusing people of exploiting loopholes..why don't you fix it? This can easily be fixed by making small tweak/addition to rule number 2. If this is sd then Im guilty of sd as well (just like many others) :lol: ...Also this is just so silly... first of all chap, get a life. 2nd you guys still haven't answered where the "secret" in secret diplomacy is applicable. I generally like to just read these things but you guys got me so passionate I'm wasting time writing. well done
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby swimmerdude99 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?


rds is the community manager. king achilles is the ultimate arbiter of rules violations, and he has posted his comments. They make sense, as the rule is quite clear. If people insist that we should make it "must only be posted in game chat" because they don't think the sentence is yet clear enough, we should do this. Nevertheless, it is grasping at straws. The rule says diplomatic discussion must be posted in game chat. jricart posted diplomatic discussion somewhere other than game chat. Open and shut.

And as for whether posting on someone's wall should be considered "secret" diplomacy, that's not relevant to this particular case.

It needs to be stated somewhere in the rules that you may NOT POST on someones wall with game discussion and that all you can say is "Check the chat" Its not stated anywhere. If people haven't read this case then they won't know that rule, imo that is unfair.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby Swifte on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:26 pm

I don't get it. What's not clear about: "Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand."

"See chat in this game, please" - no diplomatic content.

"move those three armies or i'm going to kill them." - diplomatic - should be in game only.

It's all covered by the rule.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby jricart on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:11 pm

Whatever!
This is one of the reasons CC sucks sometimes, its not democratic, and the leaders WANTS YOU to interpret the things the way they want, PERIOD.
There is no rule against posting on a wall. I posted on the chat and to be redundant I re-posted on his wall.

I'll accept the warning and try to stay away from this type of stupid discussions by following the CC Unclear rules!

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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby greenoaks on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?


rds is the community manager. king achilles is the ultimate arbiter of rules violations, and he has posted his comments. They make sense, as the rule is quite clear. If people insist that we should make it "must only be posted in game chat" because they don't think the sentence is yet clear enough, we should do this. Nevertheless, it is grasping at straws. The rule says diplomatic discussion must be posted in game chat. jricart posted diplomatic discussion somewhere other than game chat. Open and shut.

And as for whether posting on someone's wall should be considered "secret" diplomacy, that's not relevant to this particular case.

he abided by the rules by posting in gamechat. Diplomacy is not forbidden, Secret Displomacy is and it is not a secret if it is posted in chat for all to see.

how hard is it too make rulings based on the current rules & start a discussion thread to determine what the community would like to change them to.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:27 pm

Clear cheating.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:29 pm

nicestash wrote:Honestly funky. To quote Preston "I really think Funky has gone.... well... Funky".
The rule was put in place in order to ensure that opponents are away of all diplomacy going on. In this case, all diplomacy is very clearly in the game chat. In the business world, if I give a presentation at an investor conference (which is all recorded and put online), and then sit down with an important investor for a 1v1 discussion with one of the investors to answer questions (which is also recorded), I will NOT be accused of insider trading. Jricart has done the exact same thing here. He has posted all of the information on the game chat for all the "investors" (players in game) to see, and then had a 1v1 that WAS STILL VISIBLE for anyone to see who was curious.
Furthermore, I'd like to reiterate that this is a battle royale- who is going to care? I have trouble figuring out where I am and who I can eliminate, much less what other people are doing in the game. With 50 people in 1 game, it's impossible to watch everyone, and diplomacy has a minimal, if any, effect on the game (early on at least).


Funkyterrance wrote:Also, the reputation/site affiliation of a player should not ever be entered into a C&A case for the sake of equality.

In the court of law, people testify for and against your character. If you think that creates inequality, I suggest you bring it up the the Supreme Court of the United States of America. Good luck ;)

Edit: By punishing jricart (as much as normal people who commit secret diplomacy), you are giving reason for players to message each other through pms, not wall posts. Had jricart done this, nobody would've ever cared because as I said earlier: it doesn't matter.

Since when is CC anything like "real life"? In real life I can be a bigot till the cows come home and nobody can do anything about it. Fortunately, we have set rules on cc that get upheld.
It sounds like you are actually suggesting that it is now the burden of the other players in any game to make sure people aren't using secret diplomacy? That's preposterous.
My earlier explanation showing SD as understood by the rules is using perfectly sound logic and there's nothing "funky" about it so you can give that borrowed quote back to whoever you stole it from.
jricart wrote:Whatever!
This is one of the reasons CC sucks sometimes, its not democratic, and the leaders WANTS YOU to interpret the things the way they want, PERIOD.
There is no rule against posting on a wall. I posted on the chat and to be redundant I re-posted on his wall.

I'll accept the warning and try to stay away from this type of stupid discussions by following the CC Unclear rules!

JRT

Dude, just take your medicine already and accept that you screwed up.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby qwertylpc on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:51 pm

clear cheating and secret diplomacy, i think the penalty was way to lenient, ask David Stern for a better one. I'm thinking $25k fine, 2 years in jail without parole, and a website perma-ban
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [pending] BG

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:53 pm

swimmerdude99 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:jricart has been WARNED for secret diplomacy

If you want to post on someones wall "Please read game chat in xxxxxxxxx" that is fine, but thats as far as you can go, anything further will be considered secret diplomacy.

you may have got this right, may but your understanding of the word "secret" is a problem.

can we get a ruling from rds on his interpretation of what a secret is?


rds is the community manager. king achilles is the ultimate arbiter of rules violations, and he has posted his comments. They make sense, as the rule is quite clear. If people insist that we should make it "must only be posted in game chat" because they don't think the sentence is yet clear enough, we should do this. Nevertheless, it is grasping at straws. The rule says diplomatic discussion must be posted in game chat. jricart posted diplomatic discussion somewhere other than game chat. Open and shut.

And as for whether posting on someone's wall should be considered "secret" diplomacy, that's not relevant to this particular case.

It needs to be stated somewhere in the rules that you may NOT POST on someones wall with game discussion and that all you can say is "Check the chat" Its not stated anywhere. If people haven't read this case then they won't know that rule, imo that is unfair.


Any reasonable reading of the rule should leave no doubt that posting diplomatic comments on someone's wall is a rule violation. Should we also say that people can't say diplomatic things in private message, or via Skype, or over e-mail? The list of ways that you can't discuss these things with people is quite long. We only need one rule that describes the one way you can discuss with people.
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 pm

If you guys would like to discuss having the wording of the rule changed, please head to the appropriate forum.

Thanks
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Re: jricart - Secret Diplomacy [warned] BG

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:21 pm

As a result of this thread, the staff had internal deliberations and we agreed that it could not hurt to have the Secret Diplomacy rule be clarified. The rule has now been changed to read:

"Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must only be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. No other methods of communication may be used to hold diplomatic discussions between opponents including, but not limited to, the forum, the wall, Live Chat, or the inbox."

This wording change reflects how the rule has been enforced in the past and in this case, and does not imply any change in the enforcement of the actual rule itself. We hope it is now clear that any diplomatic discussion held anywhere other than the Game Chat is against site rules; this includes copying and pasting communication from Game Chat into these other locations. You may, however, continue to post "check Game Chat" on an opponent's Wall.

If you seek further clarification about this rule, please contact either myself or rds.
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