Warned PaulatPeace - gross abuse

[Donelladan]

Eddie, you are referring to other wrongdoings of GLG, that belong to other C&A cases against GLG.
But the quotes from the GLG case I am referring to are still valid, since they clearly described what PaulatPeace is doing and declare it an abuse ( isn't it ? )
The GLG case I am referring to, he was playing experienced players as well ( lieutenant and captains).
The other cases you are referring to are only explaining the escalation in the punishment GLG received
And I am not saying PaulatPeace deserve a site ban either.

Shall we draw a line that captain are not ok to be preyed on but major are ? ( in the most recent Paul's game there is lot of colonel and brig, but he played also tons of majors). Even if we shall draw this line ( and I completely disagree with the line but whatever), I just add more than 100 games as example ( 20 players but hundreds games), he also ranched lieutenant, captains, and sergent 1st class.

EDIT: this is the GLG case I am speaking about :
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174172


Also, from another GLG case, and you just need to read it:

Basically, in these 1 vs 1 games, the opponent does not have an idea of how to play the map or how to engage in the settings of the game that was made. It's like you constructed a way to make a player become like a "new recruit", because you made a game that he will play for the first time in which you have played countless times already. Regularly doing this to different (unsuspecting) players is a systematic way of ranching points for yourself. These games exhibits a pattern of how someone can methodically target specific ranks or players that have no idea on how to play the map for the purpose of ranching. It's not fair to regularly do this. We will classify this as a gross abuse of the game.

Since we have always seen him as someone who just prefers to play against low ranked players in the past, re-checking his private games with certain settings has shed some light that this practice is more malicious than it seems. This does not mean that no one is allowed anymore to invite low ranks or unfamiliar players to private games. You can play any ranks publicly or privately but make sure that this practice is not done in extreme numbers to the point that you are already doing this regularly, seeking out specific ranks or players in order to ranch some points.

I have highlighted some part, but it's very clear. The high or low rank doesn't matter.
What matter is that he selected opponent that do not have an idea how to play the map. Would they be general or cook it's the same at this point, as long as they have no idea how to play the map.

[mrswdk]

I m kind of thinking outside the box now... but basically, we all know here that points are not what define a player s skill, as there are tons of ways to increase your score taking minimal risks.
This is a game, and people like paul just wanted to get on top of the scoreboard, he found a method to get there. We know all here that even if paul is a skilled player, he wouldn't be close to a top 25 CC player list, nor most of the guys currently in the top 25... everybody on CC plays his own way and many colonel/brigs that aren t being game selective would kick their ass on most map/settings.
If some enjoy playing cheap, well, after all who cares. Just by making this C&A don exposes to everyone how this guy went up the scoreboard. It just shows he deserves no tap in the back for making it to conqueror. Hopefully now that he s made it he'll stop and understand that there is no fun in continuing

They should just get rid of all the stupid maps with obscure gameplay rules. Whenever you look in 'Join Games' the list is always at least 50% 1v1 games on ridiculous maps, all started by high rankers who are obviously already pretty good at that map and are hoping to track an unsuspecting victim. Maybe if doing that wasn't a possibility, people would be forced to just play normal games of risk with each other instead of farming weird maps for points.

[eddie2]

Done simple terms and will be my last post.

Paulet sends a invite for a map admiting it's a liked map best of 5.

Glg befriends people invite them to live chat while talking (grooming them) offers a game to pass the time.

2 big differences

Paulet you do not feel obliged to join and can easily decline.

Glg method you felt obliged to join it.

[Donelladan]

"Paulet you do not feel obliged to join and can easily decline.

Glg method you felt obliged to join it."

Totally subjective and untrue.

PaulatPeace pm has exactly the same purpose that GLG had when talking to his opponents :
To lure people into playing a game they have no chance to win ( with the intent for PAP like for GLG to be 1st on the scoreboard).
How good the message is, that is irrelevant. Maybe GLG was better at it than PaulatPeace is, that doesn't change the fact that is the same method with the same purpose.

And you are talking about details, tiny difference in the method.
PaulatPeace did still exactly what has been described by ka and drc as a gross abuse. Clearly.

Frankly I don't see how what you just said is in anyway relevant.

[Extreme Ways]

PaP method uses "hey maybe you can join", which isn't nice.

regarding Don's quote, I'm all against this type of behaviour but you did fail to quote another relevant point.

Regularly doing this to different (unsuspecting) players is a systematic way of ranching points for yourself

When is a player unsuspecting? This is quite important.

[Donelladan]

PaP method uses "hey maybe you can join", which isn't nice.

regarding Don's quote, I'm all against this type of behaviour but you did fail to quote another relevant point.

Regularly doing this to different (unsuspecting) players is a systematic way of ranching points for yourself

When is a player unsuspecting? This is quite important.

Anyone can be unsuspecting.

A message I received from a brigadier that faced PaulatPeace. I will not put his name here since I didn't get his approbation to do so, but I'll gladly provide those pm to admin if they think t is is necessary.

Thanks Donelladan: I wish there was a way NOT to play since I accepted his invitation to play three game ACCIDENTALLY. It's really too complex; but I guess i don't have a choice; no way to back out now, right??

Also for eddie that think PaulatPeace isn't doing the same because GLG was befriending his victims :

From another person that faced PaulatPeace, a colonel this time.
Again no name, but I have them stored and can send them to admin :

To be honest, I'm confused. Paul contacted me because he wanted to check me out by playing a few games with me before decided whether to invite me to join their clan. If that was intentional deception then that's really bad. I'll find out after this game series whether he was sincere (then again, if I don't win at least some games I wouldn't expect him to invite me to join his clan). The thing is, I haven't been interested in joining a clan but thought I'd consider it.

This whole experience has soured me on the whole clan thing and I'd like to put this experience behind me. I will answer your question, first, though.
He did not give me explanations about the map before we began playing but said he's answer questions afterwards. When I questioned his motives, he then answered some strategy questions, but by then it was too late. After we finished, he then answered a few more of my questions.
I need to add that he was extremely friendly. That's partly why it was hard to accept that this is a deceptive strategy.

[Dukasaur]

Let me be clear that I am not a fan of people coming up with techniques or system that looks more like point harvesting than earning their points by their game skills. I am open to ideas in how to resolve this particular form of practice but as of now I can't consider it as something that covers the rules or guidelines.

No clear rules have been broken here. High ranked players or decent ranked players should know what they are getting into once they get invited. If the invitation was clear enough to tell what is going to happen, then accepting that invite, as a high ranked player, you are also liable for taking it.

Does this practice also involved forcing anyone to play these games with him? I can understand the wrongdoing if the accused is targeting new recruits or low ranked players who will likely lose after the game but if we go further with this guideline in also including high ranked players, we are setting a dangerous precedent in telling everyone not to play and send invites in games or maps that we have grown to like. I agree that this kind of practice looks shady but there is also a point where, as a long time high ranked player, we should also be responsible of our own actions when we accept game invites.

Let's not look at this report as only about the accused. Setting a precedent like this may also mean that any player who gets most of his points from playing a particular map is "on his way" of getting reported in the future. We might as well request the webmaster to put a limit on how many times you can play on each map which is not going to happen and no one would like.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned in my 2nd sentence of this post, this practice also opens up a door on how do we resolve this so as not to affect the website and the Clan world in the long run.

This would not be a precedent-setting case. The precedent was clearly set with GLG.

Inviting people on the pretense of "teaching them the map" when in fact, no teaching is done, is clearly fraud and a gross abuse, and it was so ruled in the GLG case.

[MagnusGreeol]

You said there is nothing against the rule in what I show you -> that's true, and I never said he was doing smthg against the rule. If I think he was, then we'll be having this argument in the C&A forum.
You said there is nothing unethical, there is several thing that I do find unethical. But ethic is very subjective.

- This is a quote from you Don, Nothing against the rules you say, then you create this aronius report? All those players are not newbies, All understand they don't have to face him, All understand they can decline invite.

- Now what I'm more concerned about, is how Paul gets a one week ban for using a person's "first name", He never had a trial on it or was able to defend himself, But yet Josko is able to refer to Extreme Ways as "Noel" and nothing is done about it??

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=221512#p4890745 So how does this work, What's good for a goose is not good for the gander? Please tell me I'm missing something when pointing out a discrepancy?

-\MGM/-♎

[Extreme Ways]

You said there is nothing against the rule in what I show you -> that's true, and I never said he was doing smthg against the rule. If I think he was, then we'll be having this argument in the C&A forum.
You said there is nothing unethical, there is several thing that I do find unethical. But ethic is very subjective.

- This is a quote from you Don, Nothing against the rules you say, then you create this aronius report?

I saw the discussion on your walls. I wouldnt be surprised if your reaction caused Don to investigate more and changed his mind.

- Now what I'm more concerned about, is how Paul gets a one week ban for using a person's "first name", He never had a trial on it or was able to defend himself, But yet Josko is able to refer to Extreme Ways as "Noel" and nothing is done about it??

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=221512#p4890745 So how does this work, What's good for a goose is not good for the gander? Please tell me I'm missing something when pointing out a discrepancy?

-\MGM/-♎

Because nobody reported the post. If I cared I wouldve sent Josko a PM to change it, but you can report Josko's post and it will be mod-edited and the case will probably be dealt with the same, even if I say right now I don't care if people use my real name. The rules about this are listed in community guidelines:
viewtopic.php?t=7785

2. Do NOT post personal information about others without their direct consent.

Josko never asked me if he could, but he's an old clanmate of mine and probably knew I wouldnt mind. You can indeed say it wasn't nice of Josko to ask me first and you can report the post if you deem it necessary. Like I said again, PaP has made it easy for a lot of people to dislike him and some of them might be less willing to let things slip.

PS: GLG, Josko and CoF cases were also partly inspired by dislike of those players for example. This is not the first time something like this happens.

[Donelladan]

You said there is nothing against the rule in what I show you -> that's true, and I never said he was doing smthg against the rule. If I think he was, then we'll be having this argument in the C&A forum.
You said there is nothing unethical, there is several thing that I do find unethical. But ethic is very subjective.

- This is a quote from you Don, Nothing against the rules you say, then you create this aronius report? All those players are not newbies, All understand they don't have to face him, All understand they can decline invite.

I have no idea what means aronius.
But well, at the time I sent you the message, I found it was dishonourable and that PaulatPeace didn't deserve the conqueror medal, but I didn't know how what he was doing was against the rule. Now I know this is why I made this report.

Let me know Magnus, have you read this

The unofficial term for the particular problem is "Ranching". Simply speaking, it is the case of someone abusing the game by purposefully inviting people who have no experience with certain settings to guarantee a win.

Now, it isn't the fact that he is making these games that resulted in this. It is the fact that he would purposely seek out players with little to no experience on the maps, create the games, and invite them to private matches. This was under the guise of limiting losses, but regardless of the reason, it is still a gross abuse of our gaming system. People will say other players do this. Other players will start games, multiple ones, on maps that they are good at. I myself start 10+ Poland games whenever I get the urge to, as I feel it is my strongest map. But they do not purposely hunt down players who don't understand the maps and invite them under the guise of education, whether there was education or not. Again, this is abusing our system. After examining the situation, it was decided that this indeed did qualify as a Gross Abuse, and the infraction was handed down as per our guidelines. Any questions or comments (within reason), feel free to post in here. The same rules I posted earlier apply though: I won't tolerate any flaming, baiting, or anything of the sort. Keep the remarks clean. Thank you.

Now tell me, is it what PaulatPeace have been doing ?
( small hint, there is no mention of ranks in the quote I made - read carefully, maybe read it twice).

[MagnusGreeol]

You said there is nothing against the rule in what I show you -> that's true, and I never said he was doing smthg against the rule. If I think he was, then we'll be having this argument in the C&A forum.
You said there is nothing unethical, there is several thing that I do find unethical. But ethic is very subjective.

- This is a quote from you Don, Nothing against the rules you say, then you create this aronius report?

I saw the discussion on your walls. I wouldnt be surprised if your reaction caused Don to investigate more and changed his mind.

- Now what I'm more concerned about, is how Paul gets a one week ban for using a person's "first name", He never had a trial on it or was able to defend himself, But yet Josko is able to refer to Extreme Ways as "Noel" and nothing is done about it??

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=221512#p4890745 So how does this work, What's good for a goose is not good for the gander? Please tell me I'm missing something when pointing out a discrepancy?

-\MGM/-♎

Because nobody reported the post. If I cared I wouldve sent Josko a PM to change it, but you can report Josko's post and it will be mod-edited and the case will probably be dealt with the same, even if I say right now I don't care if people use my real name. The rules about this are listed in community guidelines:
viewtopic.php?t=7785

2. Do NOT post personal information about others without their direct consent.

Josko never asked me if he could, but he's an old clanmate of mine and probably knew I wouldnt mind. You can indeed say it wasn't nice of Josko to ask me first and you can report the post if you deem it necessary. Like I said again, PaP has made it easy for a lot of people to dislike him and some of them might be less willing to let things slip.

PS: GLG, Josko and CoF cases were also partly inspired by dislike of those players for example. This is not the first time something like this happens.

- Your not a C&A mod EW, Your a Clan Director who belongs to a clan, which makes me nervous now that you have spewed your feelings on this matter because now your another Clan Director in a clan who obviously will act out against TOP in future matters. Just what we all needed, Another Clan Director who belongs to a clan and has more power. Let the games begin I guess.

-\MGM/-♎

[Donelladan]

Your last post is totally out of topic Magnus.
Please EW; reply to Magnus py pm or somewhere else.

[IcePack]

You said there is nothing against the rule in what I show you -> that's true, and I never said he was doing smthg against the rule. If I think he was, then we'll be having this argument in the C&A forum.
You said there is nothing unethical, there is several thing that I do find unethical. But ethic is very subjective.

- This is a quote from you Don, Nothing against the rules you say, then you create this aronius report? All those players are not newbies, All understand they don't have to face him, All understand they can decline invite.

- Now what I'm more concerned about, is how Paul gets a one week ban for using a person's "first name", He never had a trial on it or was able to defend himself, But yet Josko is able to refer to Extreme Ways as "Noel" and nothing is done about it??

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=221512#p4890745 So how does this work, What's good for a goose is not good for the gander? Please tell me I'm missing something when pointing out a discrepancy?

-\MGM/-♎

It depends on who you are talking about. Some people (like me or I guess EW from his post) are ok w their names being spoken. I've publically given out some of my info. Others are more private. Just because someone sends you a PM and signs there name you shouldn't assume someone is ok with that being publically "out there".

CC is driven by reports / complaints. Clearly EW in this case was ok w his name being used or he would have reported it. Someone must have reported a post that they were not comfortable with their personal information being provided.

Pretty simple, if it bothers someone it's acted upon. If t doesn't bother people it doesn't get reported and CC does nothing. You expect CC to troll every post and check for personal info and double check every name that gets used or every post? No, they act when people tell them it bothers them.

[josko.ri]

Donelladan you can add in the evidence that currently PaulatPeace has 40-0 winning streak on Antarctica Poly (4).
Your previous research shows that he has like 77% winning percent but more relevant than that is how much winning games he has recently since he is doing this abuse of the system regularly, because he was also sometimes ago young player when he was losing on Antarctica so his total winning % is not really representative but his recent winning streak of 40-0 is representative to show what he is doing.

Having 40-0 winning streak is something unseen on CC unless if you are doing ranching, and especially if otherwise (in public and quads games on the given map) his "regular" score shows to be around 50% wins.

Also to MagnusGreeol: Extreme Ways gave me his consent to call him by his real name in forums

[eddie2]

Lol ok pauletd ban should be overturned for first name use. President was set when I made a report and received a ban for spurious report. As for this report I have now seen something to go on.

One of the players you quoted donelladen highlights the fact the games are sent before the pm. So if you can get enough to prove this.

1)pm invitation not accepted. Then game sent ?
Or
2)invite and games sent at the same time.

Any of these 2 can come under abuse because it's not a single game.

[riskllama]

I've decide to start my own ranch.



Greetings Paul,

I have a proposal for you. I like the AOR1 map and have played it a lot. I see you have never played it, so I would like to play a few games with you on it.

Yes, I would like to gain some points, but I could also lose bugger all to you. I have played other players with little or no experience and they have won (not many). A lot of times the drop you get and dice and turn order have a lot to do with success (not really), and mine have sometimes been atrocious (Mmmm a little fib). If you win only 1 game your rank will come down quicker than Paris Hilton's knickers.

However the main benefit to you would be the opportunity to learn a new map (the 3 or 4 you do know sounds a lot but it really isn't), sure your rank will get hammered but that's a small price to pay. I will answer honestly all questions you may have about the map, with either yes or no and help you to become familiar with it. There have been many times I wished I could learn a new map and would gladly have sold my soul to the devil to do so.

One additional motive for me is to get to know you a little. Our Clan is currently ranked lower than a snakes ass, but we are always looking for quality players. I noticed you are currently with an ultra competitive sect clan in leadership role, that must be awfully tiresome. We only have fun in my clan so I'll promise to keep your hopes up of joining us right until our last game has finished.

Should you not be too keen on AOR1 we could always try one of the other 150 or so maps that would leave you as confused as a blind lesbian in a fish market.

If you want to consider this opportunity, kindly let me know.

Thanks for listening.

Sincerely,

Keith

C&A post of the year, kids.

[MagnusGreeol]

- Those wins didn't come with broken arms Josky, You can add whatever bullshit ya got on top of Dons bullshit, and together you both can start a business together selling bullshit. Call it Don & Josky's famous bullshit, your motto can be " We make shit grow"? Just an idea you both can profit from ")

- And of course he gave you permission to use his name, Looks better that way here, Even I can't argue that!

-\MGM/-♎

[PurpleViper]

- Those wins didn't come with broken arms Josky, You can add whatever bullshit ya got on top of Dons bullshit, and together you both can start a business together selling bullshit. Call it Don & Josky's famous bullshit, your motto can be " We make shit grow"? Just an idea you both can profit from ")

- And of course he gave you permission to use his name, Looks better that way here, Even I can't argue that!

-\MGM/-♎

Huh, thought you were against swearing and all: 'oh let's be sweet to each other and have respect to each other bla bla, stop swearing world peace bla bla bla...' and now that your mate (from whom I've been a victim too) is getting called out you're doing it yourself. No hypocricy, way to go.

[MagnusGreeol]

- Those wins didn't come with broken arms Josky, You can add whatever bullshit ya got on top of Dons bullshit, and together you both can start a business together selling bullshit. Call it Don & Josky's famous bullshit, your motto can be " We make shit grow"? Just an idea you both can profit from ")

- And of course he gave you permission to use his name, Looks better that way here, Even I can't argue that!

-\MGM/-♎

Huh, thought you were against swearing and all: 'oh let's be sweet to each other and have respect to each other bla bla, stop swearing world peace bla bla bla...' and now that your mate (from whom I've been a victim too) is getting called out you're doing it yourself. No hypocricy, way to go.

- Bullshit? Wow that is bad! How could I ever have sunk so low? Your your own victim viper, Did he log into your account and accept those wars for you?!? Start another C&A report while you dry your eyes! O whoa with you!

[macken]

All those games must have cost many time spent. I suppose if the results had been negative, there would be here a collection of money (ranchmoney), to compensate the time spent and the damages. I'm sure of it.

PD. I will not accept invitations or send invitations without first talking to my lawyer.
I reserve the right to legal action

Edit. Sorry, I admit that sometimes I play under the effects of sex.
In the unlikely assumption that someone reports it, I would be willing to pay some points instead of be put in newspapers, or I would also be willing to donate to the Ranchers For Freedom NGO, your choice.

[Extreme Ways]

Lets solve this with a duel. Don vs Paul, France 2.1 poly 3 fog/trench chained. Best of 7.

[jdw35]

Having 40-0 winning streak is something unseen on CC unless if you are doing ranching, and especially if otherwise (in public and quads games on the given map) his "regular" score shows to be around 50% wins.

I would do a little more research before I made claims like that... 40 game winning streaks are not unseen, and by no means indicate that someone is cheating

[PurpleViper]

- Those wins didn't come with broken arms Josky, You can add whatever bullshit ya got on top of Dons bullshit, and together you both can start a business together selling bullshit. Call it Don & Josky's famous bullshit, your motto can be " We make shit grow"? Just an idea you both can profit from ")

- And of course he gave you permission to use his name, Looks better that way here, Even I can't argue that!

-\MGM/-♎

Huh, thought you were against swearing and all: 'oh let's be sweet to each other and have respect to each other bla bla, stop swearing world peace bla bla bla...' and now that your mate (from whom I've been a victim too) is getting called out you're doing it yourself. No hypocricy, way to go.

- Bullshit? Wow that is bad! How could I ever have sunk so low? Your your own victim viper, Did he log into your account and accept those wars for you?!? Start another C&A report while you dry your eyes! O whoa with you!

Dis it say that I mind bad language or insults? No.
You did in past C&A cases, that's why I thought your post was particularly funny.

And no I won't start a case that is already here, and for your info, I gained from those 5 games, but I do think the reasoning behind his invites is low, and that while I really believed he was a nice guy trying to show me his favourite map and teach me it.

[Lex Usi]

Donelladan, as you were searching for players that have won on Antarctica the very first time they have played it and couldn't find any. Here is an example: https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14941827
I'm surprised that you couldn't find it since you were in it. That was my very first game on Antarctica. At that time I was even more inexperienced player than I am now, had under 300 games on my belt then. And yes, Paul invited me to that game just as I'm sure he invited you as well.

Even us less experienced players with 300+ games can appreciate a great challenge, to play against a very high ranking player on their home turf. Paul is not the only one playing primarily one map only. Previous conquerers Kaskavel and random21 do the same. I had played very few games on USA 2.1. and wanted to challenge myself by playing against random21 a couple of games. Of course I got my ass handed to me but I did learn a great deal of the map and how it is played by studying what random did on those games against me and I also studied what he had done on his other games against various players. If he had invited me to those games I would've been honored but instead I found the games open and joined them myself.

Whoever gets invited to PaulatPeace games can very easy decline the invitation. I don't understand at all how one is forced to play a game against PaP?

Could someone please overturn the decision to ban Paul from the forum, or at least postpone his ban to a later time and let the man defend himself here. Seriously, do you people get off by beating a guy who has his hands and legs tied up and is unable to defend himself. Donelladan filed his accusations right after Paul was stripped from his ability to post in the forum. What kind of a person does that?

[GoranZ]

Let me be clear that I am not a fan of people coming up with techniques or system that looks more like point harvesting than earning their points by their game skills. I am open to ideas in how to resolve this particular form of practice but as of now I can't consider it as something that covers the rules or guidelines.

No clear rules have been broken here. High ranked players or decent ranked players should know what they are getting into once they get invited. If the invitation was clear enough to tell what is going to happen, then accepting that invite, as a high ranked player, you are also liable for taking it.

Does this practice also involved forcing anyone to play these games with him? I can understand the wrongdoing if the accused is targeting new recruits or low ranked players who will likely lose after the game but if we go further with this guideline in also including high ranked players, we are setting a dangerous precedent in telling everyone not to play and send invites in games or maps that we have grown to like. I agree that this kind of practice looks shady but there is also a point where, as a long time high ranked player, we should also be responsible of our own actions when we accept game invites.

Let's not look at this report as only about the accused. Setting a precedent like this may also mean that any player who gets most of his points from playing a particular map is "on his way" of getting reported in the future. We might as well request the webmaster to put a limit on how many times you can play on each map which is not going to happen and no one would like.

Nonetheless, as I mentioned in my 2nd sentence of this post, this practice also opens up a door on how do we resolve this so as not to affect the website and the Clan world in the long run.

If the accused for every 1 accepted invitation receives 4 declines then all you said previously can go down the toilet. In that case he is targeting specific type of players, those that do not have experience with Specific Map. Points really dont have an influence if the players dont have experience on that Specific Map. They will only give better resistance, but that wont change the outcome of the game.

As an admin you can share that info so we can all know how many players were actually targeted so we will know to which extend the invitation system was undermined.

Let me be clear that I am not a fan of people coming up with techniques or system that looks more like point harvesting than earning their points by their game skills. I am open to ideas in how to resolve this particular form of practice but as of now I can't consider it as something that covers the rules or guidelines.

Even you admit that the system was undermined... So here is the solution, Protect the average CC members(the wast majority) and punish those that try to undermine the system. Alternative is losing more CC members and eventually the site.