Baltic States [3/10] V33 P34 Beta!!

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Re: Baltic States: [11 Jul 2011] v8 Pg 8 New Look!

Postby iancanton on Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:56 am

Bruceswar wrote:
iancanton wrote:west estonia and islands estonia can be combined usefully, for example, to form a proper continent in the classic sense. islands estonia especially ought to be eliminated as a stand-alone bonus because of its small size and isolated location.

Sorry I missed responding to you. I just want to mention I really happen to like that there is a bunch of bonuses. It leads to many different ways to win this map given different drops.

no worries, bruce. having a 2-region bonus in a corner of the map doesn't lead to many ways to win though. it simply ensures that this is the best part of the map to secure in the early stages and gives a consistent advantage to the one who has a good drop there (like classic oceania). with six 3-region and 4-region bonuses, which is already an extreme number, a tiny 2-region bonus in addition makes no sense at all.

ian. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby natty dread on Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:54 am

I have to agree with Ian. Merging it with west est would be best I think...

Also, on the colours: take the marble sea, and set the land saturation between the 2 options - the other is too saturated, the other not enough.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby iancanton on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:38 am

some more trees will certainly be welcome, especially in latvia, where the only credible start is in the southeast. merging some of the many regions in west and central latvia will also help a player who starts with many troops in this difficult area, as well as reducing the total number of regions to 44, which avoids the situation of 2v2 doubles games where the only sensible first move tactic most of the time is to knock down the second player from 12 to 11 regions. merging away three regions in west and central latvia to a total of 45 is also possible, since it's sensible to have telsiai start neutral, thus bringing down the number of starting regions to 44. it'll be a good idea to remove the sea route from talsi to kuressaare, so that the larger bonuses become easier to hold.

on graphics, i think my preference is for an almost-fully-saturated land (the current hues are just a tad too much) with marble sea.

ian. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 pm

I have given people long enough to vote. I am going to go with the desat and blue sea.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:36 pm

Bruceswar wrote:I have given people long enough to vote. I am going to go with the desat and blue sea.

But Marble Sea won by a 5 vote margin... :?

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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:45 pm

Polls in the foundry are pretty worthless anyway... I never do polls on map threads anymore. If people care enough about an issue, they will post about it, and they will post their reasons for it - which means I'll also get to know if people have good reasons for wanting a change or if they just "feel like it".

Also, on the colours: you should be careful not to overdo the desaturation. Since lack converts all map images to low quality jpeg:s, which reduces the colour saturation on the whole image, you may end up with less saturation than you intended on the final map images...
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:17 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:I have given people long enough to vote. I am going to go with the desat and blue sea.

But Marble Sea won by a 5 vote margin... :?

-Sully



Yes but I am the map maker. I hold the final vote. ;)
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:55 pm

Aww, I liked the marble sea :(

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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:33 am

Soo going forward, lets talk gameplay. Impassables, Bonus values etc.

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If I was going to add one in it would be between Rapla and Paide.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Gillipig on Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:45 am

Bruceswar wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:I have given people long enough to vote. I am going to go with the desat and blue sea.

But Marble Sea won by a 5 vote margin... :?

-Sully



Yes but I am the map maker. I hold the final vote. ;)

Then why put up a poll in the first place? Ok people like this one better so I'm going to go with the other one... :? ?
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:25 am

The vote had merit. I took 2nd place. Better than me taking 4th place.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:21 pm

This looks pretty good.

You do definitely need more impassables. Particularly in the Latvia section, but really could use 4-5 more across the map.

I hope you try some different fonts too. This one is pretty flat and doesn't really fit the look of the map (in my opinion).

Hope it makes it through the Foundry sooner than later. I need it for a tourney. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:23 pm

One other suggestion: just for a fun effect, you should try distorting and blurring the gridlines a little bit in random spots. Your background has the texture of an old map, but the grid is too straight and clear. It is incongruous.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:48 am

A new update will be coming soon. I have some ideas on game play.
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:55 pm

It's been a couple weeks. Any forward movement on that update?
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Re: Baltic States: [13 Aug 2011] v11 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:00 am

I will have an update in a few days max.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 10 Which one?

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:18 am

Click image to enlarge.
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Changes:

Added Army numbers
Added neutral 3 to make sure nobody drops the island bonus.
Added Impassable in Estonia to balance out the play some there.
New Impassable for the Mountains
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Re: Baltic States: [11 Jul 2011] v8 Pg 8 New Look!

Postby iancanton on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:00 am

iancanton wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
iancanton wrote:west estonia and islands estonia can be combined usefully, for example, to form a proper continent in the classic sense. islands estonia especially ought to be eliminated as a stand-alone bonus because of its small size and isolated location.

Sorry I missed responding to you. I just want to mention I really happen to like that there is a bunch of bonuses. It leads to many different ways to win this map given different drops.

no worries, bruce. having a 2-region bonus in a corner of the map doesn't lead to many ways to win though. it simply ensures that this is the best part of the map to secure in the early stages and gives a consistent advantage to the one who has a good drop there (like classic oceania). with six 3-region and 4-region bonuses, which is already an extreme number, a tiny 2-region bonus in addition makes no sense at all.

my previous comments on the undesirability of a 2-region islands bonus still stand, bruce! this is especially because this bonus is in the corner. if u feel that u really must have a 2-region bonus, then split the central latvia bonus, which i see anyone with any sense avoiding, and merge west estonia with islands estonia.

ian. :)
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:46 am

Any more thoughts on what Ian says?? What if I dropped it down to a 1 with a neutral 2?
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby natty dread on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am

Seems feasible to me. A lot of maps have 2, even 1 territory bonuses, and if the bonus is low enough and there's no chance of dropping it, I don't see how having a 2-territory bonus would be a fundamentally bad idea.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:57 am

natty_dread wrote:Seems feasible to me. A lot of maps have 2, even 1 territory bonuses, and if the bonus is low enough and there's no chance of dropping it, I don't see how having a 2-territory bonus would be a fundamentally bad idea.



That was my first thought also. Most people are not going to fight neutrals with a large chance to get broken.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:10 am

I agree with ian's concern. With it being a corner bonus, it'll be a total shoe-in +2 for anyone who decided to focus on that corner. In the early game it'll be hard to hold, but by the mid-game it might very well be the Most Effective Bonus.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:04 am

TaCktiX wrote:I agree with ian's concern. With it being a corner bonus, it'll be a total shoe-in +2 for anyone who decided to focus on that corner. In the early game it'll be hard to hold, but by the mid-game it might very well be the Most Effective Bonus.



So then would dropping it to a plus 1 rather than 2 help? Making it a neutral 2 also instead of 3.
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby TaCktiX on Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:18 am

That sounds fair, and it's not a limiter seeing as that bonus can be expanded out of in two directions (unlike certain Classic bonuses *coughaustraliacough*).
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Re: Baltic States: [25 OCT 2011] v12 Pg 13 Bonus Structure

Postby iancanton on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:20 pm

if u do this, then it'll be a mistake to drop the neutral to 2. keep it at 3 because it'll still be the easiest bonus to take in most 1v1 games, since most other bonuses will have at least one region with 3 random neutral troops.

u really need to do something about making the latvian bonuses easier, especially in the west. the winning strategies available are currently limited to variations of starting at the extremities and working inward.

ian. :)
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