Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V4 New Gameplay

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:02 pm

cairnswk wrote:OK, i thought that might be what would happen...where do you think that territory should be?
Next to a supply ship or land base, or out in the middle of the mire?

I'll have to think on it, but it may not be a bad idea to code the supply ships as starting positions, since they're pretty well spread out.


cairnswk wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Yes, that would be much better, thanks. Also, can I safely assume you need 9 of 1 kind of ship for the bonus?

I'll add any to that, but will that be too many overrides to code?

Not at all :)


Victor Sullivan wrote:Last, I'm still not sure what you mean by Earn/Need in the treasury sections.

Ah!...you need 25 armies on that corresponding row to get those 5 bonus points at the top row.
The bottom row you need 5 to earn +1
I guess that needs to go into the wording somehow. :-k[/quote]
Are you saying you need the designated number of troops on the specified square to get the bonus? Because I'm afraid that's not possible... You/I could adjust the neutral count on each to simulate that effect.

-Sully
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V4 New Gameplay

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:
cairnswk wrote:OK, i thought that might be what would happen...where do you think that territory should be?
Next to a supply ship or land base, or out in the middle of the mire?

I'll have to think on it, but it may not be a bad idea to code the supply ships as starting positions, since they're pretty well spread out.

OK. I'll put some of those starters in the next map i upload so that you and others can see what it looks like.

cairnswk wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Yes, that would be much better, thanks. Also, can I safely assume you need 9 of 1 kind of ship for the bonus?

I'll add any to that, but will that be too many overrides to code?

Not at all :)
Good.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Last, I'm still not sure what you mean by Earn/Need in the treasury sections.

Ah!...you need 25 armies on that corresponding row to get those 5 bonus points at the top row.
The bottom row you need 5 to earn +1
I guess that needs to go into the wording somehow. :-k


Are you saying you need the designated number of troops on the specified square to get the bonus? Because I'm afraid that's not possible... You/I could adjust the neutral count on each to simulate that effect.
-Sully

OH, i would have thought the required tag would have done the job there, but after checking...no.
So yes to simulate that perhaps starting neutrals is required.
Thanks Sully.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V4 New Gameplay

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:16 pm

Treasury Table.
...new thinking that treasury table should be autodeploy, so that the treasury earns its own interest for money.
In Elizabethan times, interest was limited to 10%, but to advance the treasury amount upwards incrementally to a higher amount you actually need something like 33% each time.
So thus, the armies to hold have been worked on this 10% (with/without rounding)

I've changed the Treasury table to a "higher adds to lower bonuses" setting as I beleive this will give incentive to advance upwards rather than overrides.

Higher adds to lower bonus
Rows:|Min. Hold|Bonus
Top Row| 4 | 5
4th Row| 4 | 4
3rd Row| 4 | 3
2nd Row|3 | 2
1st Row|3 | 1
(goodness i wish we had table code ;)
Of course this is alterable with discussion.

And i must apologise for the fast pace i am trying here, but i only have a few weeks to end July this uni break before major development will probably go on vacation until end Nov.

PS. once the table is developed, then the Min. Hold column could probably be deleted.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:38 pm

Here is V5.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:12 am

Hm, but if you use auto-deploys instead of deployable bonuses, where can they be fortified to?

-Sully
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:06 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Hm, but if you use auto-deploys instead of deployable bonuses, where can they be fortified to?

-Sully

They can be used to attack upwards...."Players can move one-way up only to earn bonuses"
or outwards...."they can assault to any side's Supply ships & Land Bases"
and since they can assault they must border so therefore they can be used to fort outwardly and upwards. Yes. But the fort happens at the end of the turn, not the beginning.
This brings in the concept that the navy must have a treasury in order to assist build it up. :idea:
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:26 am

cairnswk wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Hm, but if you use auto-deploys instead of deployable bonuses, where can they be fortified to?

-Sully

They can be used to attack upwards...."Players can move one-way up only to earn bonuses"
or outwards...."they can assault to any side's Supply ships & Land Bases"
and since they can assault they must border so therefore they can be used to fort outwardly and upwards. Yes. But the fort happens at the end of the turn, not the beginning.
This brings in the concept that the navy must have a treasury in order to assist build it up. :idea:

Ah! Yes, yes. I understand now.

-Sully
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby pamoa on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:32 am

can you put colour digits on all the starting territories only so we get a clearer picture of the gameplay
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces et donjonnée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:36 am

pamoa wrote:can you put colour digits on all the starting territories only so we get a clearer picture of the gameplay

Ah, that's what is on the map now. I have starting positions for 8 players laid out. :)
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby pamoa on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:31 pm

then you have a problem with seymour and hawkins devoted supply ship
I also don't get why you have a third whatever ship as starting position

and sorry but I don't understand your Min. Hold legend
if it means you have to be in that row to get the Earn bonus just get rid of it

last minor graphic point
can you put the corresponding shield below each column instead of the P1-12 names
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:34 pm

pamoa wrote:then you have a problem with seymour and hawkins devoted supply ship
I also don't get why you have a third whatever ship as starting position

The third (non-commander) territory does seem a bit random. If this was to counter the losing condition thing, then the losing condition can simply be that you need to hold at least 1 non-treasury space :?
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:40 pm

thanks pamoa
pamoa wrote:then you have a problem with seymour and hawkins devoted supply ship

well, no, not the way i see it. i have simply used the current 8 colours in play to show where these start positions are.
With the current xml, you can't stipulate exact starting positions, they have to be grouped, thus when the map is in play, all starting positions will "start" across the board.

I also don't get why you have a third whatever ship as starting position

perhaps :idea: that is to prevent players from wiping each other out too early in the game.

and sorry but I don't understand your Min. Hold legend
if it means you have to be in that row to get the Earn bonus just get rid of it

yes, i think it needs deleting also.

last minor graphic point
can you put the corresponding shield below each column instead of the P1-12 names

I see what you're saying on that, but remember what i said about starting positions up above, where i have the starts now may not be where they are in actual play. They will simply be lumped in a group and dealt out randomly by the engine as per below.

From the xml Tutorial
"Start Positions...
... When the game begins these start positions will be split up randomly amongst the players. If there is a remainder, the territories of those start positions are dealt out in the same way as other territories (unless of course they are coded as neutral)."
End tutorial
That's the same as positions like Timms and Yves in Das Schloß. The other start positions i.e. N2 & O6 are coded in the xml as normal territories without neutral starts.

thanks MrBenn
MrBenn wrote:
pamoa wrote:then you have a problem with seymour and hawkins devoted supply ship
I also don't get why you have a third whatever ship as starting position

The third (non-commander) territory does seem a bit random. If this was to counter the losing condition thing, then the losing condition can simply be that you need to hold at least 1 non-treasury space :?

i had thought on this, and like i stated to pamoa above, it stops anyone from being eliminated too early in the game since there is the losing condition. Having two "losing condition" armies is better that one, isn't it.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:37 pm

cairnswk wrote:From the xml Tutorial
"Start Positions...
... When the game begins these start positions will be split up randomly amongst the players. If there is a remainder, the territories of those start positions are dealt out in the same way as other territories (unless of course they are coded as neutral)."
End tutorial
That's the same as positions like Timms and Yves in Das Schloß. The other start positions i.e. N2 & O6 are coded in the xml as normal territories without neutral starts.

thanks MrBenn
MrBenn wrote:
pamoa wrote:then you have a problem with seymour and hawkins devoted supply ship
I also don't get why you have a third whatever ship as starting position

The third (non-commander) territory does seem a bit random. If this was to counter the losing condition thing, then the losing condition can simply be that you need to hold at least 1 non-treasury space :?

i had thought on this, and like i stated to pamoa above, it stops anyone from being eliminated too early in the game since there is the losing condition. Having two "losing condition" armies is better that one, isn't it.


It depends on how many armies you start on them, and how many territories/neutrals lie between. I think it makes more sense to only have the Commander and if you're desperate to make it 2, perhaps one adjacent instead of one a little way off.

As an aside, the squares will need to be big enough for 3-digit armies :?
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:46 pm

thanks MrBenn
MrBenn wrote:...^^^...
It depends on how many armies you start on them, and how many territories/neutrals lie between. I think it makes more sense to only have the Commander and if you're desperate to make it 2, perhaps one adjacent instead of one a little way off.

Can you expand on this reasoning for me please. I'd like to understand why you are saying that, and then it might convince me more. ;)

As an aside, the squares will need to be big enough for 3-digit armies :?

V5: Each square is 24 pixels wide, and then the grid adds 1 pixel to this. Same for height.
The top row of digits is 24 pixels wide, the bottom row is 25 pixels wide.
So i've increased the squares to 26 pixels wide for the small map.
On the large map, this won't be an issue since there will be plenty of space, if it is increased to 1400 wide then each square is 35 pixels wide, but i guess we won't need all that space.
On V6, which i will upload today, you will see in the middle of the map the three digits and how they will lay.
Let me know what you think.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V5 Gameplay Discussion

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:37 pm

I'm liking this map, but I'm wondering if you can fit 888s on those squares. That's he only thing holding this one up.

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